Weimann - time for a rest

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Weimann got something like 5 in 6 playing up front at the start of the season, who knows what would have happened if he would have kept that place.
Now I'm not saying he would have carried on at that rate, but we'll never know how many he would have now. His confidence was sky high and he was playing as a main striker, something I don't think he's done for a long time. I agree with dropping Pato and playing Weimann in a position where his runs and running can do most damage.
It's annoying when people say , look at the difference that Taylor made Saturday, if Weimann was played there I think the game could have been very different, or at least better. He is totally wasted wide, but I think LJ plays him there because he'll run and run and run and he even covered at fullback. 
Odds are Rotherham will sit in Saturday, so it would make sense to play 2 strikers. If (as many of us think. ) Patersons name comes pre printed on the team sheet , I'd play him right wing , with ODowda left. I expect to dominate possession , so I think width will be important.

Weimann as a striker can do both, come short and play on the shoulder.  That was what he did early season, with Pato in the no10 initially, then Taylor as the secondary striker until Diedhiou returned (as sub v Blackburn), but always as the furthest most striker.  That is where he got his goals for Villa, albeit playing with players who could pick his runs out.

Most of us thought (me included) that Diedhiou would be a good (if not excellent) partner for Weimann, because of the comparison to Benteke.  However it meant curtailing Weimann’s clever runs off the shoulder as his main focus was now constrained to coming short.  He was also doing the donkey work of the press too, which didn’t help.  By stopping the runs in behind, it also meant other teams didn’t need to worry about that aspect and could play tighter on Fam.  This is where you need the second runs of Brownhill or the wide-men coming from wide to inside.  Brownhill has tried until lately, but we rarely see the wide-men make a run from out to in.  It all becomes easier to defend when the runs are the same.  The full-back never has to worry about a ball inside him, so can squeeze the wide-man much easier.  It isn’t getting the best out of Weimann, you might as well pay Watkins there if that is the instruction.

Ultimately I’m a bit disappointed that we play so rigidly....it’s so different from pre-Xmas last season.  There’s little interchange, apart from swapping the wide-men over, but that’s not interchange.  We will only play mildly exciting football against expansive teams who give us space.  Until we release the hand-brake at home and give players freedom to express themselves, we will continue to see hard to watch games.

It won’t take much to release these shackles....tomorrow should be the opportunity

[cidered abroad]

Weimann, Pack, Paterson, are all seriously under performing.

Hunt, defensively, Brownhill, O'Dowda, Diedhiou, are not consistent enough.

Eliasson promises much but also inconsistent. Pisano tries hard.

Taylor, Watkins not up to scratch, Eisa, why did we sign him? 

The most consistent performers are Webster, Kalas, Maenpaa and Kelly, until his nightmare on Wednesday.

I don't think I am being harsh. A team needs one or two to do the very good things that win games. Eight or nine who give consistent performances and one or two at most who are out of form.

So with at least four in each home game who find it impossible to pass to a teammate, tackle decisively and hit shots on target, the reason for our relegation form at home is obvious.

And LJ appears to be incapable of changing anything.

[BS4 on Tour...]

11 hours ago, headhunter said:

.....Webster & Kalas much better footballers than Flinty and Bryan though the former's goals are being missed - haven't checked but maybe this year we've conceded less?

Nope - we’ve conceded three more goals this season than at the same stage last season....

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Trouble is he was playing well up front and scoring goals. Fammy has his ban completed and moves up front and Weimann ends up out wide.

 

was sat in South Stand Wednesday and the endless runs he made into space behind the full back second half and never received the ball was shocking. 

Pack was the worse culprit, got the bell controlled it, looked up and then played it backwards. You could see Weimann’s frustration every time, He must feel hard done by, Taylor came on and played upfront why not move Weimann there instead of subbing him.

Spot on...Weimann was on fire before Fammy came back in and then he gets shoved out to the flanks...poor management...

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 hours ago, where's the joy said:

Weiman has to be dropped. you are looking for some intuitive spark from your fellow striker and he doesn't click with Fammy.

Eisa has got to be given some game time or he will be another Engval, getting splinters on the bench.

he has that x factor about him. give him a run LJ and don't be pig headed

No way we should drop Weimann....he was banging them in for fun before Fammy came back in....then he gets pushed out wide...why didn’t we let him continue his hot streak and see where it took us?

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, Im_over_ere said:

Weimann scored his goals early in the season when paired with Taylor, and Fam was suspended. Maybe now that Taylor is fit, give this pairing another go to see if it can restart Weimanns season. 

Spot on....Weimann played well over 100 premier league games for Villa, he’s a very intelligent player who deserves the chance to re-visit his superb start to the season....his goals dried up when Fammy came back in...

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Weimann as a striker can do both, come short and play on the shoulder.  That was what he did early season, with Pato in the no10 initially, then Taylor as the secondary striker until Diedhiou returned (as sub v Blackburn), but always as the furthest most striker.  That is where he got his goals for Villa, albeit playing with players who could pick his runs out.

Most of us thought (me included) that Diedhiou would be a good (if not excellent) partner for Weimann, because of the comparison to Benteke.  However it meant curtailing Weimann’s clever runs off the shoulder as his main focus was now constrained to coming short.  He was also doing the donkey work of the press too, which didn’t help.  By stopping the runs in behind, it also meant other teams didn’t need to worry about that aspect and could play tighter on Fam.  This is where you need the second runs of Brownhill or the wide-men coming from wide to inside.  Brownhill has tried until lately, but we rarely see the wide-men make a run from out to in.  It all becomes easier to defend when the runs are the same.  The full-back never has to worry about a ball inside him, so can squeeze the wide-man much easier.  It isn’t getting the best out of Weimann, you might as well pay Watkins there if that is the instruction.

Ultimately I’m a bit disappointed that we play so rigidly....it’s so different from pre-Xmas last season.  There’s little interchange, apart from swapping the wide-men over, but that’s not interchange.  We will only play mildly exciting football against expansive teams who give us space.  Until we release the hand-brake at home and give players freedom to express themselves, we will continue to see hard to watch games.

It won’t take much to release these shackles....tomorrow should be the opportunity

In reality Dave , in the way we are set up and playing , our performance is largely dependent on the performance of , and contribution of , FD

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 hours ago, phantom said:

To me he is similar to Taylor, both of their strongest points are their work rate, and sadly neither of them ever look like scoring

Weimann has turned into the player we all feared we were signing - lots of effort but a poor goal scoring ratio, just a shame as he started the season on fire

Not sure on that basis he needs a rest, as above he is playing well, just not as a goalscorer

Weimann like Taylor will also bring assists. Perhaps not enough at this time, but he does bring attributes to the side.

On a general note, strikers will tend to be primarily judged on goals still...so much more however. Assists for example, other metrics too but assists the big tangible secondary one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Nope - we’ve conceded three more goals this season than at the same stage last season....

Depends how you measure it.

In terms of goals/game ratio yes. However if you judge this seasons games v last seasons equivalents not so much.

The other aspect of our solidity too. To try to replicate it we'd need to take one example Kelly LB, Da Silva LW/LM in a 4-4-1-1. That's our closest equivalent to Magnuson LB, Bryan LW/LM in the 4-4-1-1 stylistically and personnel wise.

Whether we can replicate that this season? Different debate entirely but that was when we had the best stability especially at home.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Depends how you measure it.

In terms of goals/game ratio yes. However if you judge this seasons games v last seasons equivalents not so much.

The other aspect of our solidity too. To try to replicate it we'd need to take one example Kelly LB, Da Silva LW/LM in a 4-4-1-1. That's our closest equivalent to Magnuson LB, Bryan LW/LM in the 4-4-1-1 stylistically and personnel wise.

Whether we can replicate that this season? Different debate entirely but that was when we had the best stability especially at home.

Yeh, you can complicate it....but after 24 games this season we have conceded more goals than we did after 24 games last season...fact....

[CityCiderEd]

38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Depends how you measure it.

Bloody hell Mr. Pop you sound like LJ did after the Brentford game. The simple fact is that we have conceded 3 goals more no matter how you 'measure' it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said:

Bloody hell Mr. Pop you sound like LJ did after the Brentford game. The simple fact is that we have conceded 3 goals more no matter how you 'measure' it.

There's a lot of variables though, but yes in terms of pure stats it's 3 goals more.

Much more pertinently if we want to go down that road...

It's 15 points less than we had after 24 games last season. Wouldn't be fair though owing to context, transition IMO. Similar could be applied with defensive stats maybe.

[pillred]

5 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Why does eisa have to play? Don’t get me wrong I would like to see what he is about but I don’t work on the training ground, and lee and team are much more qualified than any of us to judge whether he is ready or not.

i view him as a punt that we took with a longer term view, the jump from league 2 to championship is very big and maybe if as muted he will go on loan then think this is the best move as I have absolutely no doubt a striker whether on loan or permanent will be signed in January.

Look the training ground is not a real game,  sick of hearing people say it to defend not starting him, pretty sure it was what he was doing on the pitch that persuaded us to part with 1,5 million, give the guy a chance in a real match if it does not work out fine, then nobody can then say he wasn't given a proper chance.

[old_eastender]

17 hours ago, Spike said:

Weimann should play in the middle as part of a front two pairing or not at all, he's intelligent and makes space around him but we don't have the creative passers to get it to him in wide positions. 

Our biggest weakness when attacking and one of the reasons we create so few chances is that we can't play a ball through the middle. I also think this is why LJ has us working on crossing so much recently, unfortunately that just isn't the answer to the problem. As many people have pointed out before, crossing is a statistically low chance way to create goals, in fact i remember seeing a statistical analysis that said it was around the 6% mark that a cross would meet an attacking player and result in a goal when in comparison to playing through the middle was a tiny percentage. 

Weimann can be effective in the middle but he needs the supply, or he can create space for another striker but again, there needs to be that pass from the midfield that creates the chance. 

I genuinely feel that the issue is not Weimann but the manner in which our team is being coached. Rather than find that key creative midfielder we've been crying out for we've instead changed our attacking game plan to plaster over that hole in our attacking game. 

It's clear to see that any top team in the Championship can play through the middle and that the reason they create chances and win games is because they're not one dimensional as we currently are.

I know many people say we need to support LJ but I still think our key issue is the coaching.  To look at our attacking strategy, we're choosing to prioritise crossing despite it being clear that it is creating more missed opportunities than actual end product. If you look at our success last season it was all from playing with multiple attacking strategies, we came in from wide positions, we crossed, we played through the middle and most importantly we mixed things up and had the right players in the right positions.

This season we focus mainly on crossing and attacking the wings, we put Weimann out wide where his best assets are wasted, we cross to a bunch of attacking players who lack height or heading ability with the exception of Fammy and we go backwards and sideways rather than play through the middle which makes teams uncomfortable to defend. 

I stand by my argument that our issue is not our squad, in fact I'd say our defence is pretty solid until the rest of the team drops deep to try and protect a small lead that ultimately welcomes the opposition to attack us more, build confidence and ultimately stop any chance of us putting the game to rest. We have players who can run at defenders, we have players who work hard, we have players who are intelligent, we have players who are technically gifted, the only thing we seem to be lacking is actual direction from our man in charge. 

Brilliant post, nail on head.