Davefevs Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) Cheers, will read in more depth later. Either it's linked to the stuff about "Mr King" or it's the new would be owners putting in cash without permission- perhaps both. Some of their fans seem to think FFP will be a big issue too, my gut feeling is that they're fine to 2022, should be fine to 2023 but the 3 years to 2024 will be an issue although Bellingham mooted sale- surely a sell on clause fixes that. Edited February 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) On 13/02/2023 at 17:14, Mr Popodopolous said: As for the here and now, the following accounts are due at the end of the month- to last season! This will include clubs who were and remain Championship clubs, ones who were promoted from the Championship last season and ones who were relegated last season from the Championship plus promoted to the level and relegated from the PL in 2021-22. These are accounts made up to end of May 2022. 1. Barnsley 2. Cardiff 3. Coventry 4. QPR 5. Stoke- although maybe a little can be extrapolated. We of course released back in November after an early nod at the Fans Forum. The following are due at the end of March or so... 1. Birmingham- although the BSH segmented results give us a fair idea. 2. Blackburn- although VLL gives us fair idea. 3. Blackpool 4. Bournemouth 5. Fulham 6. Huddersfield 7. Hull 8. Luton 9. Nottingham Forest 10. Peterborough 11. Reading 12. Rotherham 13. Sheffield United 14. Watford 15. West Brom 16. Wigan Middlesbrough, Millwall, Norwich and Preston, all due end of March have already released. Burnley, Sunderland and Swansea all due at end of April. Some of the above will include Holding companies, subsidiaries etc. Derby due to Covid and insolvency issues etc didn't release any accounts in 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22 (for 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21) and the same applies here- nothing due until next year for this season. Maybe Sheffield Wednesday also worth a look as quite large losses in 2019-20.and 2020-21...how woukd the £39m carry over with the combined Covid season as T-2 and T-3 average. They too are end of April. All can release to the EFL and indeed their fans whenever they want so long as it's not later than 1st March 2023 and 9 months after reporting period respectively but a huge lack of candour to date! See also PL clubs still there from last season. Only Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Tottenham and West Ham have released to date! Man United release was due to US Stock Exchange rules and their 1st quarter for this season looks bad- 2nd due end of this month. Plus Norwich of those relegated. Since I last updated this, not one club seems to have released at our level. Be they newly promoted to, relegated to, promoted from or relegated from. Not checked the PL too much but as fae as I remember in terms of clubs last season, the newly promoted ones ans freshly relegated- 23 in all- only the following have released to date: 1) Arsenal (Are PL, were PL). 2) Man City (Are PL, were PL). 3) Man United (Are PL, were PL). Only at US Stock exchange level and on website though, unsure about CH for the others either but if not for US rules ib this case we'd still be waiting probably. 4) Norwich (Were PL, relegated last season). 5) Tottenham (Are PL, were PL). 6) West Ham (Are PL, were PL). Edited February 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) Saw a report today. A report suggests that PSG as part of agreement with UEFA have to cut their wage bill by 30 pct- think the owners might be keen to do so anyway. About time- are PSG finally set to be reined in somewhat by UEFA and or the French League?? Read that the latter have quite strict domestic FFP regs or have done but there is one club who seem unhindered. France does strike me as the sort of country that would have fairly stringent FFP or financial regs for football domestically so why PSG were permitted to spend so much and for so long... Edited February 26, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 QPR accounts- both club and Holdings! Submitted to CH, says next 10 days as standard message but should drop by Wednesday if not sooner. We will also probably hy this time tomorrow, see Birmingham and their 6 month accounts made up to end of December 2022, albeit in HK$. Technically due tomorrow as well are Barnsley, Cardiff (and associated companies), Coventry and Stoke (with associated companies). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 How did football get like this anyway. Sitting eagerly awaiting accounts for the prior 12 months and for the last 6 months in HK$!! Indeed with Man United it's quarterly- their 2nd Quarter due tomorrow or Wednesday. How did football end up here- mad isn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Plus proper analysis by Kieran Maguire. I reckon they're fine FFP wise to 2023 once allowance factored in, to 2023-24 could be very interesting. Wonder who they would need to sell in the current cycle. Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 What is this in the football account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Plus proper analysis by Kieran Maguire. I reckon they're fine FFP wise to 2023 once allowance factored in, to 2023-24 could be very interesting. Wonder who they would need to sell in the current cycle. Losing £2m per month, their fans don't see an easy way out of this and seem resigned to League 1 football next season. https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/forum/295328/qpr-finances-released/#64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Davefevs said: What is this in the football account? Good spot that, saw it on Twitter too! In some prior years it seems to have been aligned somewhat to other revenue categories which aren't listed but ir can't be that as is over and above the parent company ie QPR Holdings and tbeir entire revenue! Typo? Very odd that, assume that it will still be the QPR Holdings for FFP stuff but a mystery atm. @Hxj ? Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Plus proper analysis by Kieran Maguire. I reckon they're fine FFP wise to 2023 once allowance factored in, to 2023-24 could be very interesting. Wonder who they would need to sell in the current cycle. According to deluded QPR fans, it will presumably be Mehmeti (see the Mehmeti thread) They are going to buy him for £2m in the summer so could sell him in January for £15m! Q.E.D. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Birmingham 6 month results also due out today, 20 to 8 at night in Hong Kong- still waiting! Cutting it a bit fine. They lost, maybe £24-25m last season. Without the UK numbers a bit of guesswork remains. Such as translation from $HK and the Football Club Segment Compensation, which is also in $HK. Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Coventry lost £6.95m before tax. No FFP concerns I expect, evwn at rhe lower level. King will put in equity if needed and Gykores especially is a saleable asset albeit in the last 18 months of his contract. They should be quite well placed in the next couple of years, equity and rent or lease on Ricoh permitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Ooh Birmingham's are out. Extrapolating from the Football Club Segment- not yet done exact exchange rates, they lost £11m probably in the 1st half of 2022-23. Possibly not yet over, next season is when their decent average from the Covid years ironically drops off...the Bellingham sell on may well need to be major. I expect that they might be fine to 2022-23 but an 8 figure hole to next season- which is where Bellingham might come in. Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) A bit of negativity on QPR forum. Subject to contractual situation I do see Chair as worth more than a few million. Dieng should and again contractually, get a few quid? Chair especially- contract until 2025 with a further option in the club's favour, surely worth more than £3-5m. I expect that their usual FFP costs are £4-5m per season. Birmingham's will be similar. In terms of add-backs for Covid the EFL £5m x 2 and £2.5m looks applicable in both cases, not like they had huge commercial revenue. QPR also have one or two other excludables ie the amortised cost of their FFP fine/interest and something relating to their Training Ground during Covid. Coventry maybe £2-3m per year in respect of allowables? Not owning the Ricoh removes depreciation, Category 2 Academy. Doubt their Covid losses would exceed the EFL guidelines either. Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Barnsley! For them quite a lot. £7,034,194! Albeit £3m of this was a legal settlement. Sure that they're nowhere near an FFP breach. They seem to be clear of it even before Covid costs or usual FFP allowances anyway. Still awaiting Cardiff and Stoke- we have some ideas about the latter. Edited February 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Typo? Very odd that, assume that it will still be the QPR Holdings for FFP stuff but a mystery atm. My best guess, whilst commuting to and working in a proper office (not at home or travelling for work) for the first two consecutive days in 10 odd years (so my brain may be a bit fuzzy), is that this is how the holding club funds the football club, it is simply charged a fee. Whilst management charges usually go 'up' a group structure they can go in either direction. Provided the payer is part of the 'FFP' group the income and expenditure will cancel out in the group consolidation, so no impact for FFP purposes. You would expect the charge to be shown in the payer's accounts as an expense. Edited February 28, 2023 by Hxj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) Cardiff and Stoke accounts now officially showing as overdue at CH. Should perhaps be an embargo until such time as they are submitted, the rules technically allow for it. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 John Percy now reporting Reading could be facing a possible points deduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) That would be the suspended deduction perhaps! Wow that's a bit unexpected...well well, I thought EFL regs and monitoring of each and every signing would keep them in check. Or could it be that the Projections show them as over?? Doubtful as supposed to be until end of June, July whenever for projections to align to actual outcome. A best guess would be that player sales were expected and did not materialise. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) In respect of Cardiff and Stoke and the accounts, I'm conflicted. On one hand, they can take a few days to show on CH. On the other hand either obstructive at worst or lax at best behaviour should be disincentivised. Birmingham for example never miss a deadline at HKSE for their annual or Interim accounts- presumably there are consequences for this at that level. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: In respect of Cardiff and Stoke and the accounts, I'm conflicted. On one hand, they can take a few days to show on CH. On the other hand either cynical at worst or lax at best behaviour should be disincentivised. Birmingham for example never miss a deadline at HKSE for their annual or Interim accounts- presumably there are consequences for this at that level. Any club listed on a stock exchange will have to comply with local listing rules. Those rules will include strict requirements on the publication of accounts (and other "price sensitive" information). The consequences of missing those deadlines are severe, and in the age of computerised stock exchanges, often automatic. Suspension of trading, negative press, it's all quite serious. The HKSE is also one of the most prescriptive of the major exchanges. It's no surprise that Birmingham are punctual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) Pure speculation on my part but maybe as I say £x in transfer profit expected. From memory there was interest in Joao in the summer. He is still there...no profit on disposal of players, therefore a breach of one of the terms of Agreed Decision- suspended sanction attached, becomes live if any terms breached. Paragraph 7 feels pertinent here. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) Oh other interesting claim, reportedly Birmingham have a 4 year rent Holiday on their sale and leaseback. They are due to pay £1.25m per year in rent to BCSL but BCSL still owe Birmingham £5m therefore rent waived. Another area for the EFL to look at...worth noting that BCSL (Birmingham City Stadium Ltd) accounts showing as 9 months overdue now! To June 2021...they show the rent receivable. EFL need to go after them quite big or at least include that £1.25m in FFP calculations. Need to also not cooperate on a takeover until such matters are clarified. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 Happy though I am with the Birmingham and Reading issues potentially being dealt with, I also would like the EFL to show some energy on the potential that one or both of Fulham or Nottingham Forest may have breached limits to last season, and Stoke with their mega Covid add-backs. Then also the Sheffield United non payment of transfer fee instalments- can it really be right that they are set to gamble on promotion to pay off debt? Embargo still showing as in place fwiw but how does promotion affect this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Happy though I am with the Birmingham and Reading issues potentially being dealt with, I also would like the EFL to show some energy on the potential that one or both of Fulham or Nottingham Forest may have breached limits to last season, and Stoke with their mega Covid add-backs. Then also the Sheffield United non payment of transfer fee instalments- can it really be right that they are set to gamble on promotion to pay off debt? Embargo still showing as in place fwiw but how does promotion affect this. The EFL is certainly still doubtful about the Sheff U takeover. Looks dodgy to me: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/01/dozy-mmobuosi-takeover-questions-hang-over-sheffield-united 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, chinapig said: The EFL is certainly still doubtful about the Sheff U takeover. Looks dodgy to me: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/01/dozy-mmobuosi-takeover-questions-hang-over-sheffield-united It does seem dubious. It's no punishment at all if they settle on promotion, the embargo lifted- it positively rewards bad behaviour or at least, poor financial management. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 In other Football finance news, read on the Stoke forum that they are set to be spending big next season- source was apparently John Coates himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Pure speculation on my part but maybe as I say £x in transfer profit expected. From memory there was interest in Joao in the summer. He is still there...no profit on disposal of players, therefore a breach of one of the terms of Agreed Decision- suspended sanction attached, becomes live if any terms breached. Paragraph 7 feels pertinent here. Quite possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Quite possibly. Just don't see what else it could be, given EFL monitoring, sign-off on new additions etc. Edited March 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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