How about.....

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

How about, rather than all these expert predictions of impending struggle, collapse and imminent relegation... We just give it a chance and judge the coming months on what actually happens. 

We've taken a massive gamble, (which I don't agree with) but let's at least give Deano a chance to do well, rather than making it impossible by dooming him to fail, before he's even started..! 

 

As far as I know there has been no official announcement as to who our new manager will be so your post is conjecture at best, why don't YOU wait till it's been confirmed one way or another because if he is not appointed then this post will look a bit silly wont it?

[Swede]

I've got nothing against Dean Holden but I feel we're at the crossroads.

The previous coaching set up involved DH and started to fail when the board sold one asset too many (Josh Brownhill) which seriously undermined the squad.

It's easy to say Lee Johnson was this or that or that he had run out of ideas but the fact remains if you continually lose your prized assets from under your nose without strengthening you set yourself up for inevitable failure. Josh Brownhill is a good example of the board taking the deal mid season and trying to quickly get a replacement in Henriksen in place which didn't work out and we're left woefully inadequate in midfield. All a bit haphazard.

Now the board are by now very adept with all of their contacts world wide to be able to identify players, do the negotiations and get the deals done. Meanwhile the coaching staff, although they know what's going on, are left scratching their heads and constantly rebuilding.

We're at the crossroads because we had a wonderful opportunity to get a statement coach in Chris Hughton who has the pedigree. It would've sent a message out to everyone else that we mean business to reach the top level which he has vast experiences of.

It would've added to attendances, increased revenue and more importantly he was very keen to take on the project. The similarities between provincial clubs Norwich and Brighton and us are clear to see.

The rugby club have already appointed a similar highly respected international coach in Pat Lam which has increased the profile to a level that it would never have achieved with a local coach.

For me, we needed that stellar coach to carry forward the upward trajectory but he seemingly wanted full control over transfers which the board seemingly weren't prepared to relinquish.

I am not surprised that Holden would jump at the chance at a head coach role but it does show that they are concerned by his lack of experience as the board are trying to bolster him with England U23/U19 coaches.

If you keep employing the same staff using the same methodology it would be insanity to expect a different outcome.

I am not expecting much from the new coaching set up under the current regime. I saw much the same when he was interim and that was without any pressure.

What we needed was a strong experienced coaching set up to balance out the board's philosophy.

What we're left with is much the same.

Opportunity Missed.

 

 

[Southport Red]

1 hour ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

What about Holdie?

Holders?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

Got to remember this forum only counts for the minority of supporters. If this place was anything to go by the protests against Johnson a couple of years back would have seen the ground empty and thousands demanding season ticket refunds. 
 

People aren’t happy, but no way will the atmosphere be ‘toxic’ when we return to the ground

It’s a good cross section though. It shouldn’t be totally disregarded. You have a broad range of ages and experiences on here - I’d say it’s pretty representative of the supporter mood.

[Dynamite Red]

11 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Holders?

How about P45.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

after he’d been given 4 years to achieve the aim of the play offs. 
 

I’d be very surprised if they told Holden that it was play offs or bust this season, especially considering the financial uncertainties of the current situation meaning we won’t be spending big money on new signings

Then his appointment is a step backwards

[Andy082005]

1 hour ago, One Team said:

It’s toxic now mate.

A few of the fans on here that support this fiasco are literally the only ones I know that do.

Everyone else is seething at this appointment.

Social media is only a small (all be it loud) minority 

wait to people are back in the ground. Once again those in charge of the club have made a decision which puts the new coaches under immense pressure right from the off 

It’s just not necessary 

 

[Bar BS3]

49 minutes ago, pillred said:

As far as I know there has been no official announcement as to who our new manager will be so your post is conjecture at best, why don't YOU wait till it's been confirmed one way or another because if he is not appointed then this post will look a bit silly wont it?

I'd usually agree with you. 

It has been "confirmed" by Bristol Live, but yes, I should probably know better than to take that as certain.! 

Pretty sure they are hoping to tie up these other management team members and announce all at once, together with the kit launch. 

My god! The meltdown coming if the kit isn't very good...!! 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Well if that’s the case, they’ll get what they deserve ...... a club with very questionable ambition.

Depends what you call ambition I suppose.  If the club doesn't have a win-at-all costs mentality, then that wouldn't bother me too much.  I suspect I'm not the only one who wants to be entertained; to see some young players come through; and if we get promotion on top, that's a bonus.  I can easily live with a few years in the Championship...

  

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Depends what you call ambition I suppose.  If the club doesn't have a win-at-all costs mentality, then that wouldn't bother me too much.  I suspect I'm not the only one who wants to be entertained; to see some young players come through; and if we get promotion on top, that's a bonus.  I can easily live with a few years in the Championship...

  

Oh I definitely wouldn’t argue with having some entertainment and share your view that I’d prefer entertainment over grinding out results.

Seeing our young players develop is also great, but for that to really work, it still needs an ambitious appointment as a proven head coach ...... let’s call it an investment in the future.

Instead we yet again look to be going down the road of taking another punt on an inexperienced, unproven head coach, in the hope that we eventually get one right.

I’m starting to feel distinctly conned by this club, who are constantly talking the talk, though when it comes to actually delivering, they come up well short.

[Lack of Action Man]

2 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Interesting.... so if you were in a job, and the boss had to go due to poor performance, you would be happy and completely understand why you got the sack also?

Or would you think, well I'm applying for that cos I could do better?

If I was part of a management team that massively under performed then I would expect to come under serious pressure regarding my role too. I might think I could do a better job, but never in a month of Sunday’s would I believe I would be in with a shot in the hot seat. 

 

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

As far as I know there has been no official announcement as to who our new manager will be so your post is conjecture at best, why don't YOU wait till it's been confirmed one way or another because if he is not appointed then this post will look a bit silly wont it?

And I have been asked on the Radio Bristol phone in about it tomorrow morning, after tonight's expected announcement. So it's not completely unfounded conjecture. 

[AshtonGreat]

32 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Depends what you call ambition I suppose.  If the club doesn't have a win-at-all costs mentality, then that wouldn't bother me too much.  I suspect I'm not the only one who wants to be entertained; to see some young players come through; and if we get promotion on top, that's a bonus.  I can easily live with a few years in the Championship...

  

What's so exciting about having young players come through? We only end up selling them as soon as they become any good

[AshtonGreat]

10 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

If I was part of a management team that massively under performed then I would expect to come under serious pressure regarding my role too. I might think I could do a better job, but never in a month of Sunday’s would I believe I would be in with a shot in the hot seat. 

 

Especially when you've only had five games in charge. I'd expect that of Yate Town's third team, not a club aiming for the Premier League.

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

What's so exciting about having young players come through? We only end up selling them as soon as they become any good

Talent in the building is better than buying it in.  It can highlight how well the FC is functioning and indicate how the future can look.

What would you prefer a BCFC that has West Country talent in it or one that does not? 

[AshtonGreat]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Talent in the building is better than buying it in.  It can highlight how well the FC is functioning and indicate how the future can look.

What would you prefer a BCFC that has West Country talent in it or one that does not? 

I would prefer a team that was full of talented local players. My point is that we never see that. On the rare occasions that we do produce anyone who's any good, we either loan them out (never to be seen again), or sell them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Andy Horsman said:

That team would spend a lot more time in the bottom 6 than the top 6!!!

I'd say lower midtable myself- not top 6 no.

Also worth keeping an eye on how other clubs in the League might downsize/be downsizing. Could be a lot of strongly weakened sides which would by default improve us.

[Atticus]

4 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

Let all hope Vyner, Walsh, Morrell, Moore, Semenyo Szmodics, O'Leary can all step up, add Massengo and Watkins and it looks a fairly weak to me.

Why are we gambling after taking 4 years trying to establish ourselves with rookies and a head coach with no experience? SL has lost the plot.

They got a taste of the money with the selling of Bryan, Reid and Kelly. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The situation wouldn’t have come to a shock to us. At the time of LJ’s sacking, projections weren’t that different to they are now.

Ashton declared in mid to late April that it would be a season of austerity.

Him and SL can't both be right, can they?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

I have no answers but I think opposition teams would slice through that midfield like a knife through butter.

I'm not so sure- technique vs physique, hard to say- technique and energy. Jury out in other words.

Having said that, I think you would need Morrell in there for one of Nagy/Massengo- and probably Morrell and one of Nagy/Massengo deeper to form a midfield 3- think the balance would leave us caught out a bit if those two advanced too high up.

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Guess we will wait and see.  If we don’t sign many and finish 12th then I don’t see Holden being sacked. 

I don’t either but just pointing out where the annoyance is coming from. SL & MA have piled so much pressure on Holden with their words over the last month. DH has a real job on his hands to win the fans over. That is on top of the massive job he has to improve performances on the pitch and develop players. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

I've got nothing against Dean Holden but I feel we're at the crossroads.

The previous coaching set up involved DH and started to fail when the board sold one asset too many (Josh Brownhill) which seriously undermined the squad.

It's easy to say Lee Johnson was this or that or that he had run out of ideas but the fact remains if you continually lose your prized assets from under your nose without strengthening you set yourself up for inevitable failure. Josh Brownhill is a good example of the board taking the deal mid season and trying to quickly get a replacement in Henriksen in place which didn't work out and we're left woefully inadequate in midfield. All a bit haphazard.

Now the board are by now very adept with all of their contacts world wide to be able to identify players, do the negotiations and get the deals done. Meanwhile the coaching staff, although they know what's going on, are left scratching their heads and constantly rebuilding.

We're at the crossroads because we had a wonderful opportunity to get a statement coach in Chris Hughton who has the pedigree. It would've sent a message out to everyone else that we mean business to reach the top level which he has vast experiences of.

It would've added to attendances, increased revenue and more importantly he was very keen to take on the project. The similarities between provincial clubs Norwich and Brighton and us are clear to see.

The rugby club have already appointed a similar highly respected international coach in Pat Lam which has increased the profile to a level that it would never have achieved with a local coach.

For me, we needed that stellar coach to carry forward the upward trajectory but he seemingly wanted full control over transfers which the board seemingly weren't prepared to relinquish.

I am not surprised that Holden would jump at the chance at a head coach role but it does show that they are concerned by his lack of experience as the board are trying to bolster him with England U23/U19 coaches.

If you keep employing the same staff using the same methodology it would be insanity to expect a different outcome.

I am not expecting much from the new coaching set up under the current regime. I saw much the same when he was interim and that was without any pressure.

What we needed was a strong experienced coaching set up to balance out the board's philosophy.

What we're left with is much the same.

Opportunity Missed.

 

 

Two reasons it didn't work out IMO, Henriksen.

Don't use him along with many other players we have correctly, or didn't often under LJ- also Brownhill yes goals from midfield but Benkovic-Henriksen-Wells are all good addition. The tactics and setup were shocking though.

What attendances! This season will have reduced attendances with a proportion of ST Holders at best- let's hope my negative forecast is wrong.

Norwich were already in the PL at time of appointment for Hughton- Brighton a strong example though.

Pat Lam- Rugby- Football- Apples-Pears- could go on, check the financials for each?

Not a fan of this appointment though!

[Garland-sweden]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Too early to know.  Got to see how the squad shapes up over coming weeks.

Yes, whats worrying is our midfield. Most of the games last season the other team controlled the midfield. Good teams and average teams to. Really hope Nagy could take that important defensiv role. We should rember even if we were fighting for top six  until 6-7 games left our goaldifference was bad. Many of the games we won we had luck and were not playing good. Its not even esrly days of the season and we hope that we can put a good team together and play good football that give us points Holden will se it with other eyes than LJ. Fingers crossed!!!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Two reasons it didn't work out IMO, Henriksen.

Don't use him along with many other players we have correctly, or didn't often under LJ- also Brownhill yes goals from midfield but Benkovic-Henriksen-Wells are all good addition. The tactics and setup were shocking though.

What attendances! This season will have reduced attendances with a proportion of ST Holders at best- let's hope my negative forecast is wrong.

Norwich were already in the PL at time of appointment for Hughton- Brighton a strong example though.

Pat Lam- Rugby- Football- Apples-Pears- could go on, check the financials for each?

Not a fan of this appointment though!

I’d actually consider taking Henriksen back.  We knackered him playing him back to back when he hadn’t played for months.  He carried on training post-covid in case he was needed.  Assume he is still a free Agent.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Garland-sweden said:

Yes, whats worrying is our midfield. Most of the games last season the other team controlled the midfield. Good teams and average teams to. Really hope Nagy could take that important defensiv role. We should rember even if we were fighting for top six  until 6-7 games left our goaldifference was bad. Many of the games we won we had luck and were not playing good. Its not even esrly days of the season and we hope that we can put a good team together and play good football that give us points Holden will se it with other eyes than LJ. Fingers crossed!!!

1. We were often outnumbered- this is a big factor at our level I think.
2. Goal difference being poor is a sign of a team who are perthaps riding their luck.
3. Agreed- that second bounce ie 6 wins in 8 from Luton at home to Derby at home, we could easily have got less points in a number of games. Metrics were certainly worse than results!

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

I would prefer a team that was full of talented local players. My point is that we never see that. On the rare occasions that we do produce anyone who's any good, we either loan them out (never to be seen again), or sell them.

Because it has not been fundamental to Bristol City. Development of talent under Lee Johnson went into reverse. 

[Swede]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Two reasons it didn't work out IMO, Henriksen.

Don't use him along with many other players we have correctly, or didn't often under LJ- also Brownhill yes goals from midfield but Benkovic-Henriksen-Wells are all good addition. The tactics and setup were shocking though.

What attendances! This season will have reduced attendances with a proportion of ST Holders at best- let's hope my negative forecast is wrong.

Norwich were already in the PL at time of appointment for Hughton- Brighton a strong example though.

Pat Lam- Rugby- Football- Apples-Pears- could go on, check the financials for each?

Not a fan of this appointment though!

Attendances post covid. The feel good factor would be there. 

No one knows of course but you do hear of bust ups and I do believe there was one with Henriksen. So was he not a "Bristol City" type player or someone signed very quickly as a stop gap. With Brownhill, the deal could've been done and in place for the end of the season. All hypothetical.

Benkovic a similar tale. Did the head coach want these players? No one knows.

Pat Lam was a massive statement and shows that the rugby club meant business and they have benefited from the appointment alone. The feeling was if, under the Bristol Sport Banner, the football club would use the same ethos as the rugby club.

My belief is that the club's model of Academy and player development and selling at huge profits is of course a good working model but that has to be balanced out with a strong coaching regime.

The club have got better and better at player recruitment but this has been to the detriment of the coaching side. So LJ, despite losing his best players, he's classed as failed and loses his job.

Yet we now have his inexperienced assistant in charge in a division where matches are won and lost on fine margins and yet the powers that be are expecting a change in fortunes under similar coaching methods.

It just doesn't make sense.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Swede said:

Attendances post covid. The feel good factor would be there. 

No one knows of course but you do hear of bust ups and I do believe there was one with Henriksen. So was he not a "Bristol City" type player or someone signed very quickly as a stop gap. With Brownhill, the deal could've been done and in place for the end of the season. All hypothetical.

Benkovic a similar tale. Did the head coach want these players? No one knows.

Pat Lam was a massive statement and shows that the rugby club meant business and they have benefited from the appointment alone. The feeling was if, under the Bristol Sport Banner, the football club would use the same ethos as the rugby club.

My belief is that the club's model of Academy and player development and selling at huge profits is of course a good working model but that has to be balanced out with a strong coaching regime.

The club have got better and better at player recruitment but this has been to the detriment of the coaching side. So LJ, despite losing his best players, he's classed as failed and loses his job.

Yet we now have his inexperienced assistant in charge in a division where matches are won and lost on fine margins and yet the powers that be are expecting a change in fortunes under similar coaching methods.

It just doesn't make sense.

Yep true. Who knows when that might be thoiugh...or in what numbers.

Yeah, good point- had forgotten about that but I remember reading it here. Think Brownhill wanted him now as part of the tradeoff for us getting Wells- not trade as in swap but you know what I mean- timeframe and all that. Think he's a good player, Henriksen.

Good player, Benkovic- IMO anyway.

To me, I'm possibly mixing pragmatism and idealism a bit, it doesn't necessarily matter who signs them- if they are decent players then a good manager- I'm not saying sign a load of strikers and unbalance a squad significantly- but Benkovic, Henriksen, Wells- these are good players I think.

Yeah I get that- but economy of scale in rugby and football just so different. Don't think a football equivalent to pat Lam so accessible at this level to us.

I agree on that.

Yes and no. Trading upwards is difficult but manageable I think- Benkovic is a ballplaying/ball carrying CB, Henriksen is a good solid Championship CM- understand the players we have lost but I don't think we've got what we should out of the replacements either/.

Could be a holding appointment. Could be an almighty gamble- by holding appointment I mean keep us midtable or thereabouts and then get in a higher profile manager in summer 2021 once we have a load out of contract and a relatively clean slate to mould it their way.

Yeah it's a puzzle and no mistake.