Vyner

[Bs4Red]

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

[archie andrews]

**** off .......class tonight

[eardun]

I accept that he is still learning/developing, but to suggest that ‘he is so far out of his depth’ when we sit on 20 points after 11 games and after the clean sheet tonight  - come on! 

[Carey 6]

I thought he did pretty well.

Doubt many if any championship defenders will have an easy game winning everything against Moore all night. 

Continues to improve, think he’s an improvement on Taylor Moore tbh. 

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

[DT The Optimist]

That just shows how we all see things differently.  Yep, he lost Moore once who should have buried a header, but he is getting better and better. Deserves his place is n side as it stands.

Edited November 6, 2020 by DT The Optimist

[Capman]

Thought he looked good tonight and has done well all season so far. Positioning looks mature. Yes he makes mistakes but then so does everyone else. 

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

As I said just an opinion I just feel over a season he will cost us a lot. As he already has. 

I understand the Moore being good in the air but 4/5 occasions Vyner lost him at corners. We just were not punished

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Seems to nearly always be good for a costly mistake each game, but that’s what you get from young players.

Wouldn’t be playing ahead of a back three of Kalas, Baker & Mawson.

[Bs4Red]

7 minutes ago, eardun said:

I accept that he is still learning/developing, but to suggest that ‘he is so far out of his depth’ when we sit on 20 points after 11 games and after the clean sheet tonight  - come on! 

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

[Lrrr]

2 defenders who'd probably be ahead of him in the pecking order down he's doing a very good job of stepping up as he probably started the season as 5th choice. People say we need to upgrade on him, who can we get on reasonable wages who'd be happy to sit behind Mawson/Baker? Unless you're advocating a new 1st choice alongside Kalas in which case then perhaps choose a transfer window in a season that isn't damaging our finances so badly, the PL clubs highlighted us as a club they won't help due to Lansdown being our owner, can't go spend millions on a centre back. Vyner won't get better unless he plays and this season is the best time for him to get that chance. 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

If you want to compare him against others in the championship compare him against how good other teams 4th/5th CB's are as thats what he was for us at the start of the season.

[And Its Smith]

15 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Just had his best game for us and you post this. Wow. 

[Bs4Red]

Just now, Lrrr said:

If you want to compare him against others in the championship compare him against how good other teams 4th/5th CB's are as thats what he was for us at the start of the season.

Yeah I understand that, I mean he’s boosted by his versatility to play RB also. 

I just don’t think if promotion is the target Vyner is not the answer and my feeling is we will bolster that area.

i may be wrong and I might change my mind on him. Just think he is ever so weak for a CB but the game is also going that way these days I guess

[TomThumb84]

Thought he looked decent tonight and more assured the more he plays, on a side note, it seems all of a sudden Kieffer Moore has turned into John Charles x Luca Toni, and listening to Sky and many on here who has him down as unplayable, it seems on that basis a it was a good nights work for Mr.Vyner.

[joe jordans teeth]

13 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

If you think him and Moore will be our undoing of promotion then you are completely wrong,it will be due to our 2 or 3 shots on target per game(I know it was one tonight)that we had under LJ which is creeping back into our game now

[marcofisher]

Considering Kieffer Moore stands about 10cm above Vyner and 13cm above Kalas, i thought they performed pretty admirably. 

 

 

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Yeah I understand that, I mean he’s boosted by his versatility to play RB also. 

I just don’t think if promotion is the target Vyner is not the answer and my feeling is we will bolster that area.

i may be wrong and I might change my mind on him. Just think he is ever so weak for a CB but the game is also going that way these days I guess

But thats the point, Mawson/Baker fit and Vyner is 4th/5th choice, I'm perfectly happy for him here as a squad player and academy graduate helps with the 1 in squad requirement. If he develops from this period to a first choice starter then great but if not I'm still happy for him to be a bench/squad player as you aren't going to find many better for cheaper. and if you paid more then its just an expensive squad player.

[eardun]

5 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

I was questioning the ‘so far out of his depth’ comment. If Baker and Mawson were  fit then yes they’d probably be higher up the pecking order (if on form) but that doesn’t mean that he is ‘so far out of his depth’ and indeed our points tally with him in the side would suggest that he isn’t 

[Bs4Red]

3 minutes ago, eardun said:

I was questioning the ‘so far out of his depth’ comment. If Baker and Mawson were  fit then yes they’d probably be higher up the pecking order (if on form) but that doesn’t mean that he is ‘so far out of his depth’ and indeed our points tally with him in the side would suggest that he isn’t 

Possibly a little unfair, I guess if we didn’t need him right now my question would be... 

how many championship sides does he get in? 

[Sheltons Army]

Sorry OP but I lost interest at

‘So far out his depth’

 

Theres a number of ways of describing a player that you are not convinced by , not sure about , or even don’t think is up to Championship Level (Should always add at the moment for a younger player)

 

‘So far out his depth’  is a ridiculous and disrespectful description 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Just had his best game for us and you post this. Wow. 

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

Couldn’t agree more. If Vyner is soooo out of his depth why wasn’t he tonight or Tuesday?!

So many players get written off as not good enough on this forum. 

[Bs4Red]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

That’s fair enough mate, all about opinions possibly worded my opinion wrong but I don’t believe with Vyner at CB we get near being promoted. We’ve all been wrong before.

Happy to hold my hands up when I am wrong but basing on those 11 games so far id say he’s been at fault for a few goals and will be for more over the season. 

Maybe not “out of his depth” but certainly a weak link for me

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

That’s fair enough mate, all about opinions possibly worded my opinion wrong but I don’t believe with Vyner at CB we get near being promoted. We’ve all been wrong before.

Happy to hold my hands up when I am wrong but basing on those 11 games so far id say he’s been at fault for a few goals and will be for more over the season. 

Maybe not “out of his depth” but certainly a weak link for me

The good news is getting lost on corners is concentration which I think gets better over time with experience. He is however showing real promise as a defender and with his ability on the ball. The mistakes need to be cut out for sure but that is where games are necessary. He isn’t going to find what he needs on loan or anything like that anymore. This is his next level to sink or swim. At the minute he isn’t really close to sinking but that can change quickly.

I’d like to think he is growing into the role and is better after tonight’s game than game 1 vs coventry. Lets see where he is at Jan 1st before we start making big decisions. Same with Taylor Moore. Lets see where we are with them. If it does not work out hopefully Baker and Mawson are close to returning. Maybe look at loaning one in if need be but for now we need to get behind them as a fanbase and not nitpick imo.

[redsince1994]

Seems to have 1 big mistake in him each game. Other than that I think he is getting better as the season goes on. Still not 100% confident in him as 1st choice but if he keeps improving at this rate im sure he will prove himself as a decent champ defender.

[marcofisher]

I think many people seem to forget that central defenders generally develop a lot later than other players.

 

I think Moore and Vyner are exceptional young players and will still develop a long long way. 
 

Most central defenders seem to hit their peak towards the age of 30, these two are only 23 and are fully pulling their weight in a team that is currently second. Yes they may make mistakes, but so do all central defenders, especially those under the age of 25.

Look at Cardiff’s Curtis Nelson, Vyner partner at the back when they were at Plymouth for example, was knocking around several years in L1 with Plymouth and Oxford before being picked up at 26 and now from then has been a regular in the Championship.

Patience needs to be given to these young defenders, who will only get better the more they play at this level.

Edited November 6, 2020 by marcofisher

[RedRock]

He’s growing with every game. Did not look out of place in a back four (with Bents and Nagy) that performed miracles to keep Cardiff out.

If you can go 95 minutes and just lose one key header when faced against a bombardment of crosses from all angles and one of the most experienced and difficult to handle forwards in the Championship, I’d say he’s done pretty well myself. 

Sure footed, calm demeanour and love his attitude. Could be the find of the season for me if he continues to develop at the rate he has over the last couple of months. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall.

overall he’s exceeded my expectations.  I had less expectations of him than T.Moore

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January.

I just don’t know how you can say that.  He’s played a part in being at fault for a few goals this season, but every goal is someone’s fault or collective fault somewhere.  He’s generally been pretty steady.  If everyone is fit, Vyner would be most people’s 5th choice.

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par.

His positioning is a development area.  It’s a position where one mistake gets punished.  Where does “ball player “ come from?  He’s comfortable on the ball, he goes long into Martin a bit too often, but at his stage of his career in City’s first team I’d rather he did that than tried to be too clever on the ball.  At other times he’s impressed me when he receives the ball and can see little pockets to drive into.  The other thing is that he’ll make angles for his teammates.

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners.

Got my joint highest score of 8 (Bentley and Nagy too) but I thought Nagy shaded it for my MOTM.  Calm and mature performance.  Cardiff really tested him tonight.  He’s probably defended more balls tonight than any other game, and he coped.  That’s not someone “so far out of his depth” to me.

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

once we get to Xmas he will’ve played 20+ times this season.  He’s part of a team that have gained 20points in 11 games.  The fact that he’s played every minute this season, means to me that he’s been a key part of that.

Comments above

[RobintheRed Red]

1 hour ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

Yeh not much better than keifer moore we were looking at him like others watkins Toney etc cant help feeling we missed out here and i agree vyner did ok for a young un against that quality opposition.

[Lrrr]

51 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

I was using 4th/5th choice as a way to demonstrate you can't necessarily expect 1st choice performances from him straight away in reference to OP's comments on out of his depth/will contribute to our not getting promotion. Personal opinion is Zak has played well with room to improve, but talk of having to replace Zak because 'he's not good enough' is nonsense because he started as 4th/5th choice and where are you going to find someone better than him cheaply and on less wages? My guess is you wouldn't. Hopefully he develops and gets better game by game and can establish himself as a first team regular in his own right without injuries being a cause to his continued selection.

[Numero Uno]

8 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Who played the initial woeful pass that opened up Cardiff on the goal?

Edited November 7, 2020 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

We’ve got a young player who is learning the position on the job at this level, we are getting away with it results wise and he’s showing plenty of signs of being up to the level required. Gotta like that surely?

[Bs4Red]

On 06/11/2020 at 22:37, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Stand by this now more than ever he is absolutely embarrassing 

[The Fat Controller]

Absolutely no help from those in front of him all match

[Bs4Red]

2 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

Absolutely no help from those in front of him all match

Can’t even pass the ball just lumps it away. Cornick turned him like he wasn’t there. 

Hes not good enough and being found out time and again

[Red Army 75]

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

[LondonBristolian]

He's had a couple of very good games this season and a couple of very bad games. I think he gets a raw deal in that the good performances get forgotten the second he has a bad game. However, at the same time, a crucial thing he needs to improve on is to make his off-days a 6/10 rather than a 4/10. 

[Son of Fred]

39 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

It's why Tanner's here...

Nige will let him acclimatise & ease him into the first team....

[mightyreds89]

Shouldn’t be anywhere near the squad let alone the team. League one player same as Taylor Moore. Hopefully the new lad can settle in.

[tin]

53 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

I’ve been saying it for too long now, but Vyner just doesn’t have it at this level. Not at CB, not at RB, not at DM. 

[Lew-T]

I’d love to see Tanner given a go at RB. After all, he has played RB for the majority of his young career…

He seriously can’t be anymore bland than what we’re seeing.

[shelts]

I like him and want him to do well cus he’s one of our own . He’s not naturally a footballer and no way on gods green earth is he a full back . 
Hope the new young lad starts the next game and maybe Vyner ends up being centre half in the future .  

[Packman]

He had a very good game against Preston I thought but got absolutely no credit on here, remember a fantastic last ditch tackle he did which definitely saved us a goal. Yeah he wasn't great tonight but nobody had a good game, he didn't really have much protection in front on him.

Looks like we've found ourselves this years scapegoat anyway. We've got to stop digging out our players all the time, it really doesn't help them.

[Mr Hankey]

Such a poor & limited player at this level. Will be decent in League One, which is where i expect he will be come January.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, Mr Hankey said:

Such a poor & limited player at this level. Will be decent in League One, which is where i expect he will be come January.

Your opinion.  Mine is very different.

[Mike Stone]

Fraustrates me every game, gets in some good positions but couldnt cross a road.

The times he hits that first defender, oh well good night

[054123]

Vyner is a steady, average player. The problem with his kind of average is that we arrive there through one passage of play  where he is well above average, followed by a passage of play well below

Edited September 15, 2021 by 054123

[Supersonic Robin]

Worth remembering what Vyner is - a CB "doing a job" out of position at RB.

We're hoping for him to be, on average, a 5 or 6 out of 10 across the season. He'll probably have a few games where he's a bit above that and a few games where he's below.

I do think Vyner was poor tonight, and I did get frustrated with him. He's what we've got though - unfortunately we're going to have to "make do" a bit in a few positions.

Not saying that people are necessarily wrong to identify him as a weakness, just that it's worth calibrating our expectations of him and understanding why we're not necessarily capable of signing a quality replacement. 

[pongo88]

3 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

I think Tanner is (and I hate to use this expression) one for the future. How far the future is away is  uncertain but I don’t think he’s going to come to the rescue in the next few months 

1 hour ago, shelts said:

I like him and want him to do well cus he’s one of our own . He’s not naturally a footballer and no way on gods green earth is he a full back . 
Hope the new young lad starts the next game and maybe Vyner ends up being centre half in the future .  

I hate the expression “he’s one of our own”. Whether a player has come from the academy or via a transfer is irrelevant. It’s their ability that counts. Prior to this season he’s played at full back, so he should have got the hang of it by now. If he’s not naturally a footballer he’s not going to make it in any position in the Championship 

27 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Worth remembering what Vyner is - a CB "doing a job" out of position at RB.

We're hoping for him to be, on average, a 5 or 6 out of 10 across the season. He'll probably have a few games where he's a bit above that and a few games where he's below.

I do think Vyner was poor tonight, and I did get frustrated with him. He's what we've got though - unfortunately we're going to have to "make do" a bit in a few positions.

Not saying that people are necessarily wrong to identify him as a weakness, just that it's worth calibrating our expectations of him and understanding why we're not necessarily capable of signing a quality replacement. 

He’s played at fullback earlier in his career at City and NP believes this is his best position. I can’t imagine he would be able to dislodge Kallas, Atkinson, or Baker as a central defender. 

[Robbored]

Vyner was frustrating me tonight. Several times he received the ball wide around the half way line, advanced a short distance before crossing it whereas he has at least another 30 yards or so to head towards the by line but never did it once - very irritated as his crosses were pretty poor from too deep a position.

If Nige thinks he’s going to be a regular starter at RB then he needs to tell Zac to push further up the pitch before crossing and insist on it.

[Supersonic Robin]

18 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

He’s played at fullback earlier in his career at City and NP believes this is his best position. I can’t imagine he would be able to dislodge Kallas, Atkinson, or Baker as a central defender. 

Appreciate he's played at full back previously, but was most often used at CB last season.

I don't recall Pearson saying that - perhaps he has and I missed it. Either way, personally I see him more as a CB. Agree that he isn't better than Kalas, Atkinson or Baker, but that doesn't change Vyner's best position.

Think my fundamental point remains; he's "doing a job" for us at RB. I don't think he's intended to be a long term solution there. I imagine NP would have upgraded at RB if circumstances had allowed it. 

[Red Ferret]

Not great defensively, but must admit I find him a good crosser of the ball, and some of his long passes can be quite accurate. He's more like a quarterback than a defender 

[Davefevs]

I thought Vyner had a very good first half, surprised at the sub at h-t.

[2015]

4 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Can’t even pass the ball just lumps it away. Cornick turned him like he wasn’t there. 

Hes not good enough and being found out time and again

Just diagonals everywhere isn't it. Not even whipped balls in by Zak for the crosses, just diagonals. It's too wooden and League 1 standard at best

[DT The Optimist]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I thought Vyner had a very good first half, surprised at the sub at h-t.

Agree with Fevs on most things but not this. The RHS first  half was shocking  with no link up play between Scott & Zak and zero threat. Not surprised it was changed. Would love to hear where the staff actually see Zak’s best position? NP stated at start of season he knew Zak’s best position…I would take Simpson in front of Zak any day of the week, and we have not spent £300k on Tanner for him to develop in 18 months time…we will see him sooner rather than later.  
If Zak going to do anything for us central defender..but he is down that pecking order as well

[TDarwall]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I thought Vyner had a very good first half, surprised at the sub at h-t.

Maybe its our position in the ground Dave as me & Josh thought similar. Though he played 1 awful pass to Weiman when we had a break. However,  picking the wrong pass when in a promising position is 1 of out common failings.

Whilst we were more solid 2nd half, they still carved us open down the right somewhat. 

It's hard to figure exactly where the issue is, but it does worry me how easy teams slice us open & if we're that open v Fulham it will be all over by half time.

2 subs by the start of the 2nd half is very un-Nige like, hopefully it won't be a regular occurrence.  

I think the home form has def got into the players heads & we're so nervous defending a lead late on.  Shame as I think the fans have been excellent in the last 2 games.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by TDarwall

[grifty]

I thought Vyner had a good defensive display yesterday, but his crosses are from too deep, and Martin can't win a header so it's always cleared. I'd like to see Zac power down the line as he does have pace and reasonable ball skill. Get closer to the byline and whip a few balls in knee high.

[redsocks]

Like I said hes not a right back.why nigel thinks he is I dont know.hes just got a new full back in why not play him he cant do any worser than what we already have.ps the crossing last night was shite.not just from vyner but the whole team.why cant they beat the first man.they must practice in training.or maybe not.

[Super]

Just now, redsocks said:

Like I said hes not a right back.why nigel thinks he is I dont know.hes just got a new full back in why not play him he cant do any worser than what we already have.ps the crossing last night was shite.not just from vyner but the whole team.why cant they beat the first man.they must practice in training.or maybe not.

The same as Baker not being a left back. We did look far better once JD came on and Baker went to CB although why he started with that team was bizarre.

[The Bard]

These sort of threads do show who has a clue about football.

Vyner has strengths and weaknesses like all our players. Up to now he's been used in 3 different positions.  I like the fact that he's been told RB is you, Concentrate on that.

 

He will improve and we'll see him settle there. Personally I would like to see Tanner played in front of him to provide a bit of thrust, energy and protection as has been done on our left. There was a reason why Massengo was put there and it wasn't his crossing ability.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

These sort of threads do show who has a clue about football.

Vyner has strengths and weaknesses like all our players. Up to now he's been used in 3 different positions.  I like the fact that he's been told RB is you, Concentrate on that.

 

He will improve and we'll see him settle there. Personally I would like to see Tanner played in front of him to provide a bit of thrust, energy and protection as has been done on our left. There was a reason why Massengo was put there and it wasn't his crossing ability.

100%.

This stuff about “he’s not a right back” he made his debut there for us, for ****’s sake. He certainly isn’t a striker but to say he “isn’t a RB” is nonsense.

Defensively he’s been pretty solid, once last night he got turned but v Preston got in a superb last man tackle when we were caught with too many forward.

Last night his crossing was poor but with Scott horribly off the pace, did at least give us an out ball.

I have no way of knowing how good Tanner is, because I have never seen him play but would have no problem at all with him starting at QPR.

[shelts]

9 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I think Tanner is (and I hate to use this expression) one for the future. How far the future is away is  uncertain but I don’t think he’s going to come to the rescue in the next few months 

I hate the expression “he’s one of our own”. Whether a player has come from the academy or via a transfer is irrelevant. It’s their ability that counts. Prior to this season he’s played at full back, so he should have got the hang of it by now. If he’s not naturally a footballer he’s not going to make it in any position in the Championship 

He’s played at fullback earlier in his career at City and NP believes this is his best position. I can’t imagine he would be able to dislodge Kallas, Atkinson, or Baker as a central defender. 

I don’t think he’s good enough . Good point as in it’s irrelevant he’s a youth product . Slightly better than Taylor Moore . 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Agree with Fevs on most things but not this. The RHS first  half was shocking  with no link up play between Scott & Zak and zero threat. Not surprised it was changed. Would love to hear where the staff actually see Zak’s best position? NP stated at start of season he knew Zak’s best position…I would take Simpson in front of Zak any day of the week, and we have not spent £300k on Tanner for him to develop in 18 months time…we will see him sooner rather than later.  
If Zak going to do anything for us central defender..but he is down that pecking order as well

Where do you sit DT?  

5 hours ago, TDarwall said:

Maybe its our position in the ground Dave as me & Josh thought similar. Though he played 1 awful pass to Weiman when we had a break. However,  picking the wrong pass when in a promising position is 1 of out common failings.

Whilst we were more solid 2nd half, they still carved us open down the right somewhat. 

It's hard to figure exactly where the issue is, but it does worry me how easy teams slice us open & if we're that open v Fulham it will be all over by half time.

2 subs by the start of the 2nd half is very un-Nige like, hopefully it won't be a regular occurrence.  

I think the home form has def got into the players heads & we're so nervous defending a lead late on.  Shame as I think the fans have been excellent in the last 2 games.

 

Tony sits just below me in LS near SS.

3 hours ago, grifty said:

I thought Vyner had a good defensive display yesterday, but his crosses are from too deep, and Martin can't win a header so it's always cleared. I'd like to see Zac power down the line as he does have pace and reasonable ball skill. Get closer to the byline and whip a few balls in knee high.

I agree.  Think Scott having a poor 37 mins in front of him didn’t help.  Shame for Scott, got a heavy challenge early on and didn’t seem himself.

3 hours ago, redsocks said:

Like I said hes not a right back.why nigel thinks he is I dont know.hes just got a new full back in why not play him he cant do any worser than what we already have.ps the crossing last night was shite.not just from vyner but the whole team.why cant they beat the first man.they must practice in training.or maybe not.

Yet, the professional manager thinks he is.  As did the Rotherham manager.  He has most of the attributes to be a very decent RB at this level.  He does need to work on his feet in one v ones though.

Its funny whenever we don’t win, there has to be a scapegoat.  Vyner is the leading candidate to be pounced on after a game.  None of the critics prepared to give him credit though v Cardiff for example…..silence.

[Bs4Red]

21 hours ago, Packman said:

He had a very good game against Preston I thought but got absolutely no credit on here, remember a fantastic last ditch tackle he did which definitely saved us a goal. Yeah he wasn't great tonight but nobody had a good game, he didn't really have much protection in front on him.

Looks like we've found ourselves this years scapegoat anyway. We've got to stop digging out our players all the time, it really doesn't help them.

This thread is literally from last season when I said the same thing you clown 

[Packman]

39 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

This thread is literally from last season when I said the same thing you clown 

Sorry who are you?

[DT The Optimist]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Where do you sit DT?  

 

I am in Dolman Midway between half way line and pen area.  I had a cracking view of the RHS of the pitch first half.  Wish I had not  I said to the guy I go with halfway through first half that it simply was not working and nothing from Zak & Scott.  Then 5 minutes later Scotts off. Then as we saw, Zak does not reappear second half.   We just seemed balanced gain after the break.  

The old saying square pegs in round holes.  I understand the need for big guys against Cardiff, and Bates at LB, but that should not be the norm...  I will say it quietly but we are missing Jack Hunt !

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

I am in Dolman Midway between half way line and pen area.  I had a cracking view of the RHS of the pitch first half.  Wish I had not  I said to the guy I go with halfway through first half that it simply was not working and nothing from Zak & Scott.  Then 5 minutes later Scotts off. Then as we saw, Zak does not reappear second half.   We just seemed balanced gain after the break.  

The old saying square pegs in round holes.  I understand the need for big guys against Cardiff, and Bates at LB, but that should not be the norm...  I will say it quietly but we are missing Jack Hunt !

Ta.  The beauty of watching live from different view points.  I thought the majority of our build up play first half was down “your side” (our right).  Very little came from our left apart from a couple of runs from Pring.  I was quite encouraged by Zak from the far side.

Vyner does go long too quickly at times, that’s an area to improve no doubt.

Some boring stats

1st half, passes 158 made / 112 success (71%) - Zak 36 / 23 (64%)

2nd half, passes 115 / 87 (76%)

Stats summary: heavily involved, made 23% of our passes just not very accurately.  I don’t always present stats to prove my point, this shows he was wasteful with the ball.  So I see / concede to your view from closer.

But it probably does show it’s when he passes longer that he lets himself down. The link up with Scott wasn’t there.

I still think he defended well.  One near post challenge on Jerome, and one brilliant interception from a Lansbury pass, where after intercepting he got his body in position to win the next challenge.

He isn’t perfect, but I still reckon he’s alright.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Will be interesting to see if Kalas stays at right back. Pearson was much happier with the 2nd half display.

Guess the unknown is whether Pearson was happy with the second half because of Kalas or as a team overall?  I thought for 20-25 mins second half we were pretty much in total control, and scored in that spell too.

Second question is - if we think Vyner isn’t good enough going forward, do we expect Kalas to offer more?  As a fan base a lot are pretty anti-Baker at LB because of his limitations on the ball.  Does Kalas offer more?

Or what is more likely is that if we play 3 CBs (Kalas at RB, Atkinson and Baker) that frees up Nige to play Dasilva to play LB.  if that’s the logic then I can happily get my head around it.

You’ll know I’m quite an advocate of lopsided / non symmetrical shapes / formations.

Watch this space!!!  Well on Saturday anyway.

[Super]

9 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Thought Vyner's forward passing wasn't very good last night. Thought his crosses were mainly from a difficult angle to really threaten Luton's defence. Maybe if we had Wood and Barnes up there then some of them would have looked like better crosses with strikers that would be more of a threat in the air. Just the wrong way of playing for us, but surely just following Pearson's orders.

Will be interesting to see if Kalas stays at right back. Pearson was much happier with the 2nd half display. I posted in the summer that if Simpson and Vyner are the 2 right backs this season then it would not surprise me if we end up in a situation where Kalas plays right back for us.

The reason for me thinking that is that if we have 2 other good centre backs, which we now currently do, then if Kalas is a better than Simpson and Vyner at right back then why wouldn't Pearson go with him there.

He has played there plenty of times in the past. I think Simpson has mainly been okay so far. Vyner was good against Blackpool and Cardiff. It seems neither full back position is taken at the moment.

It's because he isn't forward thinking as he is a central defender. Either play him in a back 3 or don't play him at all.