Maltshoveller Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, WarksRobin said: I wonder whether Mercedes will decide to withdraw from F1, as they have from Formula E No one team is bigger than the sport If they go they go F1 will carry on with or without them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Super said: People saying Max was lucky seem to forget the luck Lewis had to win his first title. Rain and a car on the wrong tyres isn’t quite the same as losing a 13 second lead to a safety car and then the rules being suddenly changed for the good of the show. Going by that Lewis was fortunate in 2008 but Max seriously lucked out here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: I'd be stunned if they overturned the race result - and remember Mercedes did still win the constructors championship. You've got to question Michael Masi's future at FIA though. They were desperate for it not to end under the safety car but it still has to have some fairness about it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippin cider Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Super said: People saying Max was lucky seem to forget the luck Lewis had to win his first title. It’s not about that though is it, the fact is they only let 5 cars overtake and that was incorrect, they can’t make up the rules to suit as they go along. Shame really as it was a good race until a few laps from the end . Max has quite rightly capitalised on the incorrect call from Race control but was it a fair result? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippin cider Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, East Londoner said: Two protests have been launched, So we could go from a unsatisfactory way of deciding the champion to a even more unsatisfactory one Caused by the very people that are there to oversee a fair race ! … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Bore off Mercedes you messed up by not pitting. Accept defeat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, Lrrr said: This is going to be carnage, thing is there’s nothing to say if all cars had been let through that max wouldn’t have caught Lewis anyway, so what decision could you implement if they decide it was wrong? If all the cars had been let through then it would have meant the final lap would have also been behind the safety car, so Lewis would have won. That's the reason they only let five cars through, to give us one final lap of racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said: If all the cars had been let through then it would have meant the final lap would have also been behind the safety car, so Lewis would have won. That's the reason they only let five cars through, to give us one final lap of racing. But thats not the rules, thats what people are finding it difficult to accept. The rule is either no cars are unlapped, or all cars are unlapped. Then the stewards/director can decide if they let them catch up to the back or not. Not to remove the cars in between because that gives Red Bull the advantage. If Hamilton AND Max were on fresh tyres, then it is a fair decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 I think we can all be separated into two groups; 1. Those that think it’s unfair and find it funny. 2. Those that think it’s unfair and are angry. Me? Group one all day long! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posset red Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Not a massive Lewis fan think he’s a bit of a knob but he was cheated out of that victory 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 I presume the crash was totally staged to bring about the last lap drama? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Embarrassing by mercedes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, Super said: Bore off Mercedes you messed up by not pitting. Accept defeat. Except as Rosberg pointed out expecting the rules to be applied correctly played a part in their decision making, plus if Hamilton pitted he’d have lost track position 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 hours ago, TomF said: Most underserved race win ever imo Even more than Spa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 39 minutes ago, grifty said: But thats not the rules, thats what people are finding it difficult to accept. The rule is either no cars are unlapped, or all cars are unlapped. Then the stewards/director can decide if they let them catch up to the back or not. Not to remove the cars in between because that gives Red Bull the advantage. If Hamilton AND Max were on fresh tyres, then it is a fair decision. I know what the rule is... The point I'm making is that, judging by what the commentators were saying, if they had decided to let all cars through then this would have taken another lap out of the race due to time, and therefore the last lap would also have been a procession behind the safety car. Are you saying that is not right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, TomF said: You think Red Bull and Karen Horner would be just accepting it if other way around? Not a chance If they pit and then max doesn’t he wins. They literally could not win unless the safety car ended the race. Massi has completely gone against race rules so this could get very messy. Possibly in court. At best they should null the race and let them share the championship. Max did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Super said: Max did nothing wrong. he didnt say max did anything wrong. it was Masi breaching an FIA rule, either all lapped cars get to unlap themselves or none. not "only the lapped cars between 1st and 2nd place, then we restart" take off your anti-Lewis/anti-Merc glasses for half a second and at least be ******* honest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I know what the rule is... The point I'm making is that, judging by what the commentators were saying, if they had decided to let all cars through then this would have taken another lap out of the race due to time, and therefore the last lap would also have been a procession behind the safety car. Are you saying that is not right? As per my previous post, they either let all the lapped cars through or they let none of them through. It would depend how quickly they could get all the other cars passed the safety car whether they could have the last lap as a racing lap but if the couldn't so be it, at least the rules were followed. Michael Masi has gone from conforming to the rules by saying no cars can overtake the safety car, to then 'inventing' a rule to allow the 5 cars between them to go passed (but no more?) in order to have a racing last lap. They should have only done that if it was equal i.e. they were on tyres of a similar age, otherwise you automatically hand Red Bull a huge advantage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, grifty said: Not really got much to do with this though. The issue is the FIA should have either let ALL lapped cars through or none. Not the 5 in-between Hamilton and Verstappen so they could have a race on the last lap. Just doesn't sit right with me and a shame the season had to finish under such controversial circumstances. There's lot of people (including a few in this thread) saying it was the first race they've watched in X number of years and won't again because of the ending. That's what this race will be remembered for. As a side note, I was impressed at how magnanimous Hamilton was after the race. Obviously disappointed, but still did interviews, congratulated Max and stayed on the podium sprayed him with champagne and congratulated Max and Horner. Where was Max on the podium at Jeddah? He ran off out the back immediately the national anthems were gone. Seems strange that the 'Hamilton haters' won't bring this up... The regs say that after letting lapped cars through, the safety car should complete a further lap before entering the pits. They just didn’t follow their own procedures. Reckon this could end in a count back and Lewis awarded the win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I know what the rule is... The point I'm making is that, judging by what the commentators were saying, if they had decided to let all cars through then this would have taken another lap out of the race due to time, and therefore the last lap would also have been a procession behind the safety car. Are you saying that is not right? That’s the rules, applied over several seasons. Why change them in the middle of this race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, grifty said: As per my previous post, they either let all the lapped cars through or they let none of them through. It would depend how quickly they could get all the other cars passed the safety car whether they could have the last lap as a racing lap but if the couldn't so be it, at least the rules were followed. Michael Masi has gone from conforming to the rules by saying no cars can overtake the safety car, to then 'inventing' a rule to allow the 5 cars between them to go passed (but no more?) in order to have a racing last lap. They should have only done that if it was equal i.e. they were on tyres of a similar age, otherwise you automatically hand Red Bull a huge advantage. Yes, we are in agreement. I'm just saying that part of Masi's decision was clearly based on just letting through 5 cars so that the last lap could be a race, which is clearly wrong. Horner admitted in his interview straight after the race that he'd been nobbling Masi whilst the safety car was out to "let them race". Edited December 12, 2021 by Kid in the Riot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, grifty said: As per my previous post, they either let all the lapped cars through or they let none of them through. It would depend how quickly they could get all the other cars passed the safety car whether they could have the last lap as a racing lap but if the couldn't so be it, at least the rules were followed. Michael Masi has gone from conforming to the rules by saying no cars can overtake the safety car, to then 'inventing' a rule to allow the 5 cars between them to go passed (but no more?) in order to have a racing last lap. They should have only done that if it was equal i.e. they were on tyres of a similar age, otherwise you automatically hand Red Bull a huge advantage. I agree, making it up as they went along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said: Yes, we are in agreement. I'm just saying that past of Masi's decision was clearly based on just letting through 5 cars so that the last lap could be a race, which is clearly wrong. Horner admitted in his interview straight after the race that he'd been nobbling Masi whilst the safety car was out to "let them race". Masi's tone with Horner and with Toto couldnt have been more different either 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Yes, we are in agreement. I'm just saying that part of Masi's decision was clearly based on just letting through 5 cars so that the last lap could be a race, which is clearly wrong. Horner admitted in his interview straight after the race that he'd been nobbling Masi whilst the safety car was out to "let them race". Ah sorry, got confused! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) That is absolutely nuts. I will admit I'm not a huge Verstappen fan but looking at this as objectively as I can, LH has been cheated here. As far as I know (and please do correct me if I'm wrong as I could be), 2 things could have happened: 1 - Masi could let all cars unlap, or none, both situations would have followed usual protocol and seen Lewis win OR 2 - He lets an arbitrary amount of cars go through to allow a single lap of racing, against the rules and precedent, where the guy losing has 100% advantage on the car ahead, with zero cars behind to chase (let's not forget Sainz was screwed here too). Perplexing, absolutely perplexing. Nothing will happen because the FIA must save face but Mercedes have a case here. No precedent for what happened and as far as I can tell it broke their own rules, to set up a showpiece finish, completely contrived. This is F1, not WWE. Edited December 12, 2021 by nebristolred 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, JamesBCFC said: Masi's tone with Horner and with Toto couldnt have been more different either I thought he sounded like he didn't have any control. Christian Horner politely I thought asked what was going on with the cars in between and Masi was all "Christian if you let me finish"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, grifty said: I thought he sounded like he didn't have any control. Christian Horner politely I thought asked what was going on with the cars in between and Masi was all "Christian if you let me finish"... He completely shut Toto down without hesitation though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Mercedes have a every right to make their appeal when 2 FIA regs were broken, purely to contrive an "entertaining" end. Races have ended under safety car before, and they will in the future too. Don't think it would get overturned, but Masi has to go after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Mercedes have a every right to make their appeal when 2 FIA regs were broken, purely to contrive an "entertaining" end. Races have ended under safety car before, and they will in the future too. Don't think it would get overturned, but Masi has to go after this. As Brundle pointed out who’d replace him, due to the circumstances of how he got the job he needs some experienced help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted December 12, 2021 Report Share Posted December 12, 2021 Taking merc and red bull out of the equation, what were the knockon effects to those drivers in position 6 7 8 9 and 10? Or don't they count, is it just about Lewis and Max In my mind the rules have not been followed and that decision should be reversed. If they wanted racing give Lewis and Max 1 lap both on softs and slug it out and don't interfere with the rest of the drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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