Bristol City v Birmingham City Match Day 16

[Banjo Island]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Fair comment but does that explain the absence of the aggressive attacking football Holden told us we would play? Or was that just PR?

No its BS

[steviestevieneville]

38 minutes ago, intercity said:

First half good. O'Dowda, Kalas, Nagy played well, we had good shape and passing. Birmingham totally innocuous.

Second half very poor. O'Dowda disappeared, we couldn't get hold of the ball, couldn't pass and we were totally inoccuous.

Bristol City ladies and gentlemen. Go figure.

Holden changed to a 442 , couldn’t understand it. We had control in midfield with O’dowda central . He completely nullified us by changing. Dean got to take the blame for that today. 

[cidered abroad]

9 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Younger players given a chance.

Prepared to make changes when necessary.

...but we’ve been unlucky with injuries (come on: Baker, Williams, Walsh, Weimann, Mawson, Sessegnon, Kalas, Paterson? - we’re struggling to fill the bench at the moment) and Covid, during a ridiculously heavy schedule.  To condemn the side after a disappointing half is unwarranted.  I’m happy with the way things are going, I just don’t expect to win every match as some appear to do.

 

My first City away match was in 1951 in the FA Cup at St Andrews.

Guess what the result was. Lost 1-2!

Since then I've only seen us beat them about four times. At least when Trevor Francis used to stuff us on his own, you could appreciate a very good player. This is yet another poor Brummie side and we didn't look capable of bothering their defence. 

Slow build up, predictable pattern of play, I'm almost glad I don't have to waste a whole afternoon going to Ashton Gate.

[old_eastender]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Holden changed to a 442 , couldn’t understand it. We had control in midfield with O’dowda central . He completely nullified us by changing. Dean got to take the blame for that today. 

Nail-on-head, COD was causing them problems getting runs in behind central in first half, Holden sticks him out wide left and he became a spectator.

Also what does Holden see in Brunt, offers us nothing, even his dead ball deliveries are so-so. How is Massengo supposed to develop being left on the bench whilst a slow 37 year old has been gets game time?  Tins says Massengo is working hard and showing up well in training, give him a chance he has to be a better option than Brunt until Bakinson is fit to start again.

 

 

 

 

[Banjo Island]

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

My first City away match was in 1951 in the FA Cup at St Andrews.

Guess what the result was. Lost 1-2!

Since then I've only seen us beat them about four times. At least when Trevor Francis used to stuff us on his own, you could appreciate a very good player. This is yet another poor Brummie side and we didn't look capable of bothering their defence. 

Slow build up, predictable pattern of play, I'm almost glad I don't have to waste a whole afternoon going to Ashton Gate.

And no kasey palmer to come on to at least try and change things around and yet brunt getting more game time than palmer did

[AppyDAZE]

All we are saaaaaaying,

is give us some

 

 

 

 

Entertainment!

No football fan I know wants to see his / her team sneak a lucky 1 goal win EVERY TIME.

Holden out? Of course not, but please can you let us see some football, Deano and co?

 

[nickolas]

32 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Very hard to take any positives out of that performance. 
 

the starting 11 for Wednesday will show me what Dean is all about- I’m expecting 5 changes minimum. 

Im going with 

Bentley

Mariappa Vyner Kalas

hunt nagy bakinson pato dasilva

dave wells

Changes needed. Change of tactics actually needed from the slow boring build up play. 
However, Blackburn scoring for fun so im fearing a 0-3. 

[1960maaan]

35 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Genuine question....what has he changed?

TBF earlier in the season our movement looked better, I do think we've looked more organised and I'm still giving him time to get his team out. If, when we have nearer what he considers his XI out on the pitch, and it serves up that , I will be more critical . I think much of today is down the the players whether the choice of, or their mindset. 

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Nail-on-head, COD was causing them problems getting runs in behind central in first half, Holden sticks him out wide left and he became a spectator.

Also what does Holden see in Brunt, offers us nothing, even his dead ball deliveries are so-so. How is Massengo supposed to develop being left on the bench whilst a slow 37 year old has been gets game time?  Tins says Massengo is working hard and showing up well in training, give him a chance he has to be a better option than Brunt until Bakinson is fit to start again.

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid I have to say again that the only rationale I can see for signing him and getting shot of Morrell is that he happens to be a mate of one of our coaches.

He used to be a good, underrated, player but is way past his peak.

[YGBjammy]

Clear that scoring the goals is our main issue now then?

Would like to see a revert to 352 with Martin and Wells up front. Nagy, Bakinson, Pato in the middle.

[Alessandro]

33 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

 

I see lots of comments re “same as under LJ”. 
 

Well, I for one think it’s worse. 
Was discussing with a mate before the QPR game. Last season compared to this season, after 14 games, we had the same amount of points. 
But, we drawn less, lost more, scored less goals. 
So whilst the points gained was the same, we were lower on a number of factors. 
We then looked at the last 5 games under LJ and the last 5 under DH. 
We had less average possession (by a whopping 10%), less average shots, less average shots on target, less average corners. 
 

So, again, whilst points gained are the same as at this stage under LJ, the components of the game are much worse and the football is hugely less engaging. 

Good post and some revealing stats.

In my opinion, we saw the new manager bounce with DH as caretaker and the first 5 games this season.

Last 10 games our form is 12th, mid table stuff and the style of football is too often pretty dire.

Yes we’re organised (and have spirit) but sorry that doesn’t turn me on.

‘Organised’ is the bare minimum, they’re professional footballers and coaches with badges FFS.

 

[Jimbo76]

18 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Holden changed to a 442 , couldn’t understand it. We had control in midfield with O’dowda central . He completely nullified us by changing. Dean got to take the blame for that today. 

Have to agree. COD is not a winger. Semenyo not a winger.

Birmingham looked really poor. They were there for the taking. 

Tactical error by DH led to us giving away first half dominance to a disjointed display in the second half.  Players looked uncomfortable in the latter formation. 

[mossey]

33 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

Nor me. In fact I look forward more to getting my home game refunds

Glad I didn’t pay £10 to watch on Robins tv, have not enjoyed games I’ve watched so far, so decided not to bother. Not seen much, if any improvements or differences from home games under Johnson.

If they did allow supporters to attend, don’t think I’d rush to apply or attend.

[collier]

14 minutes ago, mossey said:

Glad I didn’t pay £10 to watch on Robins tv, have not enjoyed games I’ve watched so far, so decided not to bother. Not seen much, if any improvements or differences from home games under Johnson.

If they did allow supporters to attend, don’t think I’d rush to apply or attend.

The sad thing is I pay my £10 every game in hope that this is the game that will have me on the edge of my seat but I keep seeing the same boring performances. I tell myself I am not buying the next one but come game day I have that same though!!! Fool me once shame on you, fool me like 8-9 times so far well I guess it's my own dumb ass fault.

[Banjo Red]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

That was always Johnson's main weakness. I had hoped things had changed. But we have worrying parallels to what went on when he was the number 2 under Johnson.

Agreed

[Banjo Red]

Should have signed Toney we are very poor in the final 3rd at times.

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

 

I see lots of comments re “same as under LJ”. 
 

Well, I for one think it’s worse. 
Was discussing with a mate before the QPR game. Last season compared to this season, after 14 games, we had the same amount of points. 
But, we drawn less, lost more, scored less goals. 
So whilst the points gained was the same, we were lower on a number of factors. 
We then looked at the last 5 games under LJ and the last 5 under DH. 
We had less average possession (by a whopping 10%), less average shots, less average shots on target, less average corners. 
 

So, again, whilst points gained are the same as at this stage under LJ, the components of the game are much worse and the football is hugely less engaging. 

Could not agree more. There are too many on here that are acceptant of the appointment of DH. Don’t get me wrong I think he is a hugely decent man and means well but it’s all of the same again. We needed a total refresh which we did not get. I don’t think Houghton was the answer but someone young and up and coming would have fit the bill, not a completely untried bloke who was part of the problem.

I hate what Covid has done to society and I love going to AG, but I am glad I can’t currently and that makes me very sad.

[bemmyredjeff]

8 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

Should have signed Toney we are very poor in the final 3rd at times.

I don't think he would currently make much difference with our lack of creativity.

You only have to look at the Wells clips of his goals and movement at QPR and he looked a totally different player to now.

[Loosey Boy]

4 minutes ago, bemmyredjeff said:

I don't think he would currently make much difference with our lack of creativity.

You only have to look at the Wells clips of his goals and movement at QPR and he looked a totally different player to now.

Wells needs to be played up front in a pair, not a front three.....

Martin looks a shadow of himself currently - wonder if COVID had had a big impact on him?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Banjo Island said:

Its diffulcut to understand picking 2 defensive full backs at home to a team thats not won in 7 its mind boggling

Not sure what you mean by a ‘defensive fullback’ but if you are playing four at the back, it’s customary not to play with wing backs.  Dasilva had a nightmare in the first half on Wednesday, and Tommy Rowe deserved to keep his place.  I assume the plan would always have been to bring Dasilva and Hunt back midweek, but in any case we’re not really in a position to judge who is fully fit and who isn’t.  The starting lineup seemed decent to me, given that we had only 15 or 16 first teamers available, and not all of them fully fit, though I’d have preferred not to have had Brunt in midfield.

I see Watford lost today, and the first caller on 606 was a Watford ‘fan’ calling for the manager to be sacked...

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

29 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Could not agree more. There are too many on here that are acceptant of the appointment of DH. Don’t get me wrong I think he is a hugely decent man and means well but it’s all of the same again. We needed a total refresh which we did not get. I don’t think Houghton was the answer but someone young and up and coming would have fit the bill, not a completely untried bloke who was part of the problem.

I hate what Covid has done to society and I love going to AG, but I am glad I can’t currently and that makes me very sad.

Where I disagree with you is that ‘we needed a total refresh’.  A lot of people would not agree with you, and would have wanted to continue to build the existing squad...

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Not sure what you mean by a ‘defensive fullback’ but if you are playing four at the back, it’s customary not to play with wing backs.  Dasilva had a nightmare in the first half on Wednesday, and Tommy Rowe deserved to keep his place.  I assume the plan would always have been to bring Dasilva and Hunt back midweek, but in any case we’re not really in a position to judge who is fully fit and who isn’t.  The starting lineup seemed decent to me, given that we had only 15 or 16 first teamers available, and not all of them fully fit, though I’d have preferred not to have had Brunt in midfield.

I see Watford lost today, and the first caller on 606 was a Watford ‘fan’ calling for the manager to be sacked...

Hunt and Dasilva are, or can be, attacking full backs even in a back 4. The 2 we played are much less so. Problem is if you have Brunt in the holding role your defence is not well shielded so you can't afford full backs bombing forward. So you choose a more defensive pair.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Wade Wilson said:

Selling Eliasson is one of the worst decisions the club has made in a long time. Everyone could see we weren’t going to play 3-5-2 all season, shockingly poor management from top to bottom letting him go. I will never not be absolutely furious at that decision. 

Assuming that the club did everything they could to keep him but and that he didn’t want to move on. 

[Numero Uno]

33 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Where I disagree with you is that ‘we needed a total refresh’.  A lot of people would not agree with you, and would have wanted to continue to build the existing squad...

Longer term we 100% need a significant refresh. We have built a squad over 2-3 seasons that can only win games by playing counter attacking football and rely on moments of individual brilliance to score goals rather than team play that plays through the opposition. That is why a player like Paterson, seemingly ineffective for long periods, is so important to us because he is more often than not involved in the one moment in 90 minutes that makes a difference.

When the onus is on us to get on the front foot we have been and still are pathetic to be honest. I’m not blaming Holden for being pragmatic right now and picking up points but there comes a time when people want to see a bit of nice football to go alongside the result.

The upstairs circus have allowed the previous manager to build a squad in that style and you could have brought Pep in after they sacked Johnson and he wouldn’t be able to change this bunch significantly in terms of playing style and get results without adding quality in vital areas.

Our midfield is a car crash in terms of creating anything and without a winger to stick on and stretch teams we simply come unstuck whenever a visiting team play us at our own game.

Pragmatism is fine when you are winning the games we have been winning but to flip that it stinks when you lose a shit game 1-0 without the opposition keeper breaking sweat. It will take 2 transfer windows to bring in the players that allow us to play on the front foot.

The club need to be careful because the very pragmatism that has seen us pick up points might result in a nosedive in season ticket sales next season. Unfortunately there’s a little thing called Covid that has affected the disposable income of many people who will need to choose what they spend it on with a more hard nosed and less emotional approach than ever before.

[Frenchay Red]

2 hours ago, mossey said:

Glad I didn’t pay £10 to watch on Robins tv, have not enjoyed games I’ve watched so far, so decided not to bother. Not seen much, if any improvements or differences from home games under Johnson.

If they did allow supporters to attend, don’t think I’d rush to apply or attend.

I've been forking out a tenner when the games aren't on Sky, but after today I will be giving it a miss for the time being.

[Garland-sweden]

3 hours ago, 054123 said:

Is it snowing in Sweden?

Not yet.

[Garland-sweden]

Birmingham was the better team today, nothing to say about that. We were poor and I hope we will do better next game. COYR!!!

[richyy66]

I think we have been poor for the last 2 seasons apart from the occasional one off performance.

Midfield has no threat what so ever - weak and no creativity. 

I find the football being played slow and predictable. We really are a poor team going forward compared to other teams in the Championship.

Nothings changed the from last two years in my opinion. 

 

 

 

[havanatopia]

21 hours ago, Leveller said:

I must admit I preferred the match day threads that started with a potted history of the town in question. But then I’m a history and QI fan!

Who did those, was it Havanatopia?

I will try again soon. 

[mossey]

15 hours ago, bemmyredjeff said:

I don't think he would currently make much difference with our lack of creativity.

You only have to look at the Wells clips of his goals and movement at QPR and he looked a totally different player to now.

Surely that’s down to service, style of play, and creativity all of which we are sadly lacking in at the moment, the forwards look fed up and not looking as if enjoying way we are playing, negative and boring, aiming to grind out results. Holden is very lucky, and I bet he’s happy that there are no supporters in the ground at the moment!