PSG Vs Istanbul Basaksehir postponed due to comments made by 4th official

[Red-Robbo]

11 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I disagree with using skin colour as a description, (unless it’s relevant I.e. police issuing a description as long as they do the same for all races) just because you can’t think of anything else, as this, for me, reinforces the thinking that back people are defined by skin colour and that overrides everything else.

ive worked in Financial Services for 20 years, and completed many D&I training sessions, and if for example somebody said to me ‘I’ve got Dave on the phone’ and I said ‘who’s Dave?’ And they said ‘the black bloke’ then they would be potentially on a disciplinary for breach of D&I policy and rightly so.  

 

Context is king though. I can think of times in the newsroom when I've said to a new member of staff: "Can you take this to Alexis, he's subbing the story."  "Which one is Alexis?" "He's the tall black guy on the table over by the water cooler."

Even in the achingly PC corridors of the BBC that is not seen as wrong. If Alexis was the only tall guy on the desk, you'd just say "He's the tall bloke sitting near the water cooler".   Context.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Good post

If you asked a black person the same question in the same context, would they give the same answer?

Well Carlton Cole was on the radio this morning and made the very same point , he said he would 

[Rossi the Robin]

30 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I disagree with using skin colour as a description, (unless it’s relevant I.e. police issuing a description as long as they do the same for all races) just because you can’t think of anything else, as this, for me, reinforces the thinking that back people are defined by skin colour and that overrides everything else.

ive worked in Financial Services for 20 years, and completed many D&I training sessions, and if for example somebody said to me ‘I’ve got Dave on the phone’ and I said ‘who’s Dave?’ And they said ‘the black bloke’ then they would be potentially on a disciplinary for breach of D&I policy and rightly so.  

Your question back to the person could have been ‘Dave who’ not ‘who’s Dave’. That cuts out the issue coming up

If you are working to that level of scrutiny then it should be professional from both sides 

30 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

[RedRaw]

6 minutes ago, prankerd said:

But yet again, this guy shouldnt of been speaking romanian you have to speak english, if he would of spoke english then this situation probably wouldnt of happened.. now hes probably messed up his career all over something that was most probably innocent..  i dont think he would be that stupid to be racist on tv in front of that many witnesses but hey some people are!

I’m sure it would......there are enough people on here telling us that using the term ‘black’ is wrong and offensive so even if the 4th official spoke English, we’d still no doubt be where we are now 

[grifty]

7 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

I’m sure it would......there are enough people on here telling us that using the term ‘black’ is wrong and offensive so even if the 4th official spoke English, we’d still no doubt be where we are now 

Out of interest, who has said using the term black is wrong and offensive?

[AshtonGreat]

7 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Your question back to the person could have been ‘Dave who’ not ‘who’s Dave’. That cuts out the issue coming up

If you are working to that level of scrutiny then it should be professional from both sides 

Your question back to the person could have been ‘Dave who’ not ‘who’s Dave’. That cuts out the issue coming up

If you are working to that level of scrutiny then it should be professional from both sides 

Dave the grime artist doesn't have that problem, because he's just... Dave

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, !james said:

"In Human Rights law intentionality is irrelevant. It is the effect of the action on the target person/group that is to be considered and takes precedence"

Are you sure?

What rights did those who were raped, murdered and sold drugs have when fat-cat human rights lawyers stepped in to prevent recent deportations? 

 

All for human and animal rights btw , however,  just sometimes lawyers get a little confused over whether the rights of criminals should have precedence over victims and society in general. Hopefully, left, centre and right can unite to tell these vermin lawyers to stuff their £1000+ an hour salaries where the sun doesn’t shine and go and do something useful to benefit society, rather than their pockets. 

Anyhow, this place seems rapidly becoming a political forum, time for this sort of stuff to migrate off to the nutters in the House of Commons and leave us to enjoy the once beautiful game. 

 

 

[prankerd]

12 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

I’m sure it would......there are enough people on here telling us that using the term ‘black’ is wrong and offensive so even if the 4th official spoke English, we’d still no doubt be where we are now 

They heard negro, which can be viewed as a racist slur..

Well depends how you view it tbh, black is wrong im a chocolate colour :laugh: im not black your probably pink not white, but our society feels we need to label everything and if its not in that category then its wrong....

Just dont assume something that is right for one person is right for another person.

Alot of people on here dismissing these claims as nothing seem to be white people im guessing? Which kind of is the problem if they cant see whats wrong with this.

Im all for a good debate but if you cant even view the argument from the other sides perspective and say crap like if there was only one white guy in a black team etc then whats the point :laugh:

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, prankerd said:

I dont disagree with what john barnes has said but at the same time, he doesnt speak for all non white people, i believe english footballers dont have it as bad as alot of footballers in these other European countries...

Like demba ba must see it every week so his first reaction would be to be offended and see the worst in the word..

But yet again, this guy shouldnt of been speaking romanian you have to speak english, if he would of spoke english then this situation probably wouldnt of happened.. now hes probably messed up his career all over something that was most probably innocent..  i dont think he would be that stupid to be racist on tv in front of that many witnesses but hey some people are!

Sorry couldn’t let that one go.... ‘you have to speak English’. Lummydaze, that sounds like my partner abroad! 

If ‘nationalism’ means you retain your own language and have every right to use it (accept in high risk situations - airline pilots etc) to provide diversity and colour in the world ... then count me as a nationalist. 

If I took offence to a foreigner who used a word which is non-offensive in their mother tongue and was not used in an offensive way, then clearly that’s my problem not theirs. 

 

What a dull place the world would be if everyone is required to speak English. Fair enough learn to communicate in the native language if you’re not in your own country - that’s just pure manners - but mandatory English? Not for me. 

 

 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

47 minutes ago, prankerd said:

I dont disagree with what john barnes has said but at the same time, he doesnt speak for all non white people, i believe english footballers dont have it as bad as alot of footballers in these other European countries...

Like demba ba must see it every week so his first reaction would be to be offended and see the worst in the word..

But yet again, this guy shouldnt of been speaking romanian you have to speak english, if he would of spoke english then this situation probably wouldnt of happened.. now hes probably messed up his career all over something that was most probably innocent..  i dont think he would be that stupid to be racist on tv in front of that many witnesses but hey some people are!

He we go again, another WHITE person who seems to think they know more than a black person

What is it with this forum?

Not just this thread, but many others, so many experts when in fact they know nothing about the situation

 

I am curious why must Demba Ba see it every week? Another unfounded and fact less statement

 

Also the officials are all Romanian so why should they not be speaking in Romanian to each other?

You really have some hilariously misguided views

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

18 minutes ago, prankerd said:

They heard negro, which can be viewed as a racist slur..

Ha HA Ha

You are on fire today

He spoke in ROMANIAN, perhaps you should educate yourself on the meaning of the word in Romanian?

 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

He we go again, another WHITE person who seems to think they know more than a black person

What is it with this forum?

Not just this thread, but many others, so many experts when in fact they know nothing about the situation

 

I am curious why must Demba Ba see it every week? Another unfounded and fact less statement

 

Also the officials are all Romanian so why should they not be speaking in Romanian to each other?

You really have some hilariously misguided views

If you'd read @prankerd's other post you'd see they aren't white.

[Numero Uno]

11 minutes ago, prankerd said:

They heard negro, which can be viewed as a racist slur..

Well depends how you view it tbh, black is wrong im a chocolate colour im not black your probably pink not white, but our society feels we need to label everything and if its not in that category then its wrong....

Just dont assume something that is right for one person is right for another person.

Alot of people on here dismissing these claims as nothing seem to be white people im guessing? Which kind of is the problem if they cant see whats wrong with this.

Im all for a good debate but if you cant even view the argument from the other sides perspective and say crap like if there was only one white guy in a black team etc then whats the point

I don't think too many are dismissing the situation as nothing. The interesting thing is that John Barnes/Carlton Cole do not seem to have too much issue with using skin colour in the right context whereas I can also accept that some people might. So if it can be avoided then everyone's a winner but in the heat of a pressurised situation last night that didn't happen for whatever reason (that isn't an excuse, just a fact). The problem is that some people immediately jump to conclusions and have labelled the guy "racist" without knowing the full facts. Should he and officials at future matches be educated? No doubt. Is he racist? I don't see it as clear cut, personally, with the facts available. From what I'm seeing today the Black community are just as mixed in viewpoint on this particular "identification" issue as the White community suggesting to me that it is not such an open and shut "this is right or wrong, allowable or not" issue as one or two on here would have you believe. Whether you agree with him or not John Barnes made a number of points that I, as a white person with no direct experience of racism (well once in St Lucia where a group of kids were shouting "White Boy" at my son when we were riding a bike!!), thought made sense to be honest.

 

[RedRaw]

42 minutes ago, grifty said:

Out of interest, who has said using the term black is wrong and offensive?

Read back through this thread, you’ll see plenty of examples 

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Sorry couldn’t let that one go.... ‘you have to speak English’. Lummydaze, that sounds like my partner abroad! 

If ‘nationalism’ means you retain your own language and have every right to use it (accept in high risk situations - airline pilots etc) to provide diversity and colour in the world ... then count me as a nationalist. 

If I took offence to a foreigner who used a word which is non-offensive in their mother tongue and was not used in an offensive way, then clearly that’s my problem not theirs. 

 

What a dull place the world would be if everyone is required to speak English. Fair enough learn to communicative in the native language if you’re not in your own country - that’s just pure manners - but mandatory English? Not for me. 

 

 

Not only that but if you shout at foreigners and speak more slowly like you are addressing a three year old they all understand you in the end anyway..................

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, RedRaw said:

Read back through this thread, you’ll see plenty of examples 

No one has actually said that.

In the right situation and context there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[prankerd]

19 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Sorry couldn’t let that one go.... ‘you have to speak English’. Lummydaze, that sounds like my partner abroad! 

If ‘nationalism’ means you retain your own language and have every right to use it (accept in high risk situations - airline pilots etc) to provide diversity and colour in the world ... then count me as a nationalist. 

If I took offence to a foreigner who used a word which is non-offensive in their mother tongue and was not used in an offensive way, then clearly that’s my problem not theirs. 

 

What a dull place the world would be if everyone is required to speak English. Fair enough learn to communicative in the native language if you’re not in your own country - that’s just pure manners - but mandatory English? Not for me. 

 

 

Its a rule for officials they have to speak one language, the univeral language is english

[prankerd]

13 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

He we go again, another WHITE person who seems to think they know more than a black person

What is it with this forum?

Not just this thread, but many others, so many experts when in fact they know nothing about the situation

 

I am curious why must Demba Ba see it every week? Another unfounded and fact less statement

 

Also the officials are all Romanian so why should they not be speaking in Romanian to each other?

You really have some hilariously misguided views

Look at my profile picture, im not white :laugh:  

His league is notorious for racial abuse, how about you look up stuff before you make your comments? Like see if the poster is white :laugh:

[054123]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Not only that but if you shout at foreigners and speak more slowly like you are addressing a three year old they all understand you in the end anyway..................

There is a certain irony to all this in that in an effort to be more inclusive we are potentially taking issue with someone for using their indigenous tongue and not being aware of English.

When we say ‘educated’ do we mean don’t speak Romanian? 

Why isn’t he educated about the context and language of the UK and the US? After all we’re making absolutely no effort to understand his language and context.
 

8 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Its a rule for officials they have to speak one language, the univeral language is english

That’s a bit of luck!

 

[Baba Yaga]

Just now, prankerd said:

Its a rule for officials they have to speak one language, the univeral language is english

Isn't that just to the teams, I am guessing the officials don't have to speak English to each other? If true it makes no sense having all officials from the same nation to officiate in a second language when every weekend they speak in their native language for domestic games.

[prankerd]

14 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Ha HA Ha

You are on fire today

He spoke in ROMANIAN, perhaps you should educate yourself on the meaning of the word in Romanian?

 

Im guessing you havnt read my previous posts either, negro in some languages is used as a racist slur...

Are you Romanian? Do you know if he knows that in other languages its offensive? He could quite easily say that knowing that it would be deemed acceptable because hes Romanian...

 

I literally raise a few points and instead of a debate theres attacks calling me basically stupid for my views and im wrong :laugh:

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, 054123 said:

There is a certain irony to all this in that in an effort to be more inclusive we are potentially taking issue with someone for using their indigenous tongue and not being aware of English.

When we say ‘educated’ do we mean don’t speak Romanian? 

Why isn’t he educated about the context and language of the UK and the US? After all we’re making no effort to understand his language and context.
 

That’s a bit if luck!

 

Quite, whatever your colour or heritage, you can easily tie yourself in knots and actually be guilty of what you are opposing by believing that we are at the very heart of the educated and civil universe.

[RedRock]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Not only that but if you shout at foreigners and speak more slowly like you are addressing a three year old they all understand you in the end anyway..................

Struth. Nailed it.

You must be my partner’s ex.

[Oh Louie louie]

We have a gentlemen from romania here, who is a fan.

Maybe he can translate?

[prankerd]

I was literally having this discussion with my parent the other day tbh, about labelling races, i was adopted so i never knew my parents but i knew my mum was white, blonde hair, my dad ovbiously darker because im mixed race..

I would always get people asking me where are you from, id say bristol, they would then say na where are you really from??

Bristol mate im english, na where are you originally from? Are you joking me England bristol!!!

Very anoying and been asked that a million times!... not just by white people to be clear alot of indians have for some reason...

 

So to help me find my dads side my sister got me a dna test for my birthday, i dont really know how to cut down the size of screenshots so ill type the results.. 

Oh i done it never mind but thats me ..

How you can label me anything is beyond me, im not black or white.. but im pretty sure you would say in that situation that black guy...

 

 

[Super]

Thank god we have a game tonight....

[BCFC Grim]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Thank god we have a game tonight....

You won't be saying that after 20 minutes.

[RedRock]

19 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I don't think too many are dismissing the situation as nothing. The interesting thing is that John Barnes/Carlton Cole do not seem to have too much issue with using skin colour in the right context whereas I can also accept that some people might. So if it can be avoided then everyone's a winner but in the heat of a pressurised situation last night that didn't happen for whatever reason (that isn't an excuse, just a fact). The problem is that some people immediately jump to conclusions and have labelled the guy "racist" without knowing the full facts. Should he and officials at future matches be educated? No doubt. Is he racist? I don't see it as clear cut, personally, with the facts available. From what I'm seeing today the Black community are just as mixed in viewpoint on this particular "identification" issue as the White community suggesting to me that it is not such an open and shut "this is right or wrong, allowable or not" issue as one or two on here would have you believe. Whether you agree with him or not John Barnes made a number of points that I, as a white person with no direct experience of racism (well once in St Lucia where a group of kids were shouting "White Boy" at my son when we were riding a bike!!), thought made sense to be honest.

 

But who appoints themselves as judge and jury on what’s acceptable and what’s not? 

Whoever it is, needs to give their head a wobble in my view.

 

In my lifetime:

Black - Out

Coloured - In

Coloured - Out

Black - In

 

Gay - Out

Queer - Out

Gay - In

Queer - In

(careful!)

 

BAME - In

BAME - Out

 

...and the list goes on.

It’s getting farcical. How the **** do these word approvers/disapproves expect us English people to keep up, let alone a Romanian.

Maybe we move to ‘individualism’ the ultimate Utopian goal of those that champion DIVERSITY, where people just accept that people are different and choose to use different words to describe people/things with no offence intended. 

While fat-cat lawyers may go out of business from those that are perpetually offended themselves or are offended on behalf of other people that, surely, is something to be celebrated. 

 

 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

24 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Its a rule for officials they have to speak one language, the univeral language is english

Yet another incorrect post

At international level, FIFA has four official languages: English, Spanish, French and German. 

More importantly, refereeing teams use signals with their hands, cards and flags which are universal and which all players should understand.

For example, if a referee holds both hands forward for an advantage, the linesman flags for offside and the referee goes back to brandish a yellow card for the earlier foul, every player and fan should understand the decisions which have been made.

Universal cues of body language are also important.

Former World Cup assistant referee Sean Hurd told Business Insider: “Most of the players do speak a little bit of English at the international level. The refereeing aspect, and the playing aspect, are universal. Body lano guage, eye contact.”

21 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Look at my profile picture, im not white  

His league is notorious for racial abuse, how about you look up stuff before you make your comments? Like see if the poster is white

I've a friend from Bristol who married a Turkish chap and often visit them and also go home and away with Beşiktaş , again your comment is unfounded. B

Also just to clarify, I'm not sure if anyone else actually uses their own photo as a profile picture

24 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Are you Romanian? Do you know if he knows that in other languages its offensive? He could quite easily say that knowing that it would be deemed acceptable because hes Romanian...

I've spoken with a Romanian colleague this afternoon, he confirms that it is not used as an offensive term as we know it

[Super]

9 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

You won't be saying that after 20 minutes.

That long?