Oh my god they're finally working on throw ins!

[Portland Bill]

On 23/12/2020 at 19:55, RedRock said:

Yep. 

Not just our throws either.

I was well known for my rallying call on the football pitches across the Midlands for screaming at my team mates  ‘this is as good as ours’ when the opposition were in their defensive third with a throw-in.

If you press on their throw-in that area, it’s a lottery who wins the ball. If you win it, invariably they’re out of position and you’re often in with a decent chance in their box. 

 Cant believe that professional teams don’t do this regularly. Easy wins and all that.

With respect, pro footballers at the top level are far more adept at getting out of tight situations, than ( I’m guessing) the level you played at. 

[The Bard]

On 24/12/2020 at 11:25, spudski said:

Exactly Dave...it's basic football we've all learnt whilst growing up.

Tbh... professional footballers nowadays are technically better, fitter and more athletic, and more often than not stick to a game plan or shape. Those players are the ones who make it professionally because of how the game has evolved.

Imo... you're going to smile at my phrase...but there are less natural footballers that make the grade professionally.

I've seen and played with 'lesser quality' players, who have a better ingrained/natural understanding of how to read a game, positioning, angles etc... and have an intelligence and sometimes gifted ability to pass, shoot, receive, throw, take corners and free kicks better than many pros...they just fail in other attributes. 

I'm astounded weekly when I watch pro games in the EFL. So many opportunities arise during games that I know certain gifted amateurs would be able to have taken advantage of better than the pros.

The one thing that irks me the most is the basic skills that can't be carried out.

How many can't control a ball properly, trap it, pass to feet, and crossing...jeez...it's not difficult...the standard of crossing these days is awful.

Rant over

 

This is why managers like Cotts do so well.  They look for intrinsic football intelligence and basic skills.  Then they work with the players on their weak points and improve them as players. Brentford are an example of it being done to plan by a club.

 

That's supposedly what we're doing but frankly it doesn't seem like it. 

[Ivorguy]

On 23/12/2020 at 21:25, Sheltons Army said:

And Brentford amongst a fair number have a specialised set piece coach

Our set pieces are totally unimaginative to put it politely and executed appallingly and have been for most of my life

Can anyone remember a free kick or corner routine with a bit of imagination , that’s been worked on , in recent seasons ?

We are missing a trick and with a lack of goals something we should be trying to maximise 

 

 

Think last man who worked on that was Johnson Senior

[Davefevs]

Holden’s Xmas pressie 

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Holden’s Xmas pressie 

The early ones used to throw the ball the equivalent of about 473 yards !!

 

‘Its an attacking throw to Bristol City...........Oh ......it’s gone right over the Kellogg’s Box Stand and landed in the dog basket ......’ 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The early ones used to throw the ball the equivalent of about 473 yards !!

 

‘Its an attacking throw to Bristol City...........Oh ......it’s gone right over the Kellogg’s Box Stand and landed in the dog basket ......’ 

yep, keeping it on the pitch was very difficult.

[RedRock]

On 25/12/2020 at 13:14, Portland Bill said:

With respect, pro footballers at the top level are far more adept at getting out of tight situations, than ( I’m guessing) the level you played at. 

Equally, though a pro footballer should be far better at closing down than I was!

[Prinny]

Since there was chat about long throw ins...

We're now a month into our throw in revolution.

And yesterday, the commentator was literally calling us out for not moving on throw ins (them too). We were awful at it.

[Davefevs]

Just watched all 20 throw-ins yesterday:

1. Mariappa - quick throw to Bakinson - retained
2. Wells - quick throw to Palmer - retained / on the attack
3. Mariappa - short to Wells chest, laid back, then cleared
4. Mariappa - mid-length to Diedhiou, miscontrolled - lost
5. Mariappa - cross field to Moore, who had chance to pass to Rowe but then hit shocker back pass to O’Leary - corner
6. Rowe - long down line - turned over
7. Mariappa - long to Wells, heads inside, handball by opponent, not given
8. Mariappa - camera cut to Josh from OSIB so cannot see result!!!
9. Rowe - short to Palmer - retained
10. Rowe - long, headed back by Millwall
11. Rowe - long, head by Millwall to City who turn it straight back over
12. Rowe - long, headed back by Millwall
13. Mariappa - short to Wells, retained
14. Mariappa - short to Diedhiou, retained
15. Rowe - short deep in one third to Moore, retained then cleared
16. Rowe - long to Diedhiou, flick to Wells, volley pass to Semenyo, goal ️️️
17. Rowe - mid length to Edwards, another throw
18. Rowe - short to Bakinson, retained
19. Mariappa - short to Martin, retained
20. Rowe - mid length to Martin, flicked inside for Massengo to drive into box

So, overall, not too bad yesterday.  I think they are improving, albeit slowly.

[Prinny]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

1. Mariappa - short to Wells chest, laid back, then cleared
2. Mariappa - mid-length to Diedhiou, miscontrolled - lost
3. Rowe - short deep in one third to Moore, retained then cleared

For me to understand your ratings. What's the difference between 1 and 3?

And was it the throw ins fault that Diedhiou mis-controlled or more his?

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, Prinny said:

For me to understand your ratings. What's the difference between 1 and 3?

And was it the throw ins fault that Diedhiou mis-controlled or more his?

Simplistically, did the throw benefit us , lose us the ball when we could’ve kept it by better routine or a bit in between / meh

For example no3.  40 yards from our goal, Mariappa throws 10 yards into Wells chest, for Wells to chest back. Wells chests it’s well back to Mariappa.  So that part of it is a , but it plays out with Mariappa clipping a first time ball down the line and we lose possession , so I gave it a overall.  Had other players given Mariappa a good pass option it would’ve been a .

There are positions , no 15, where in our own corner flag area, the objective was to get the ball down the field, so a quick lay off from Moore then boom earns it a

The overall summary for me is that across 20 throw-ins we were generally better than we have been.  Wyscout stats say we were 76% successful yesterday, but I think that’s a figure that adds little value without looking at the actual throws themselves.

Re the Diedhiou throw it was a 20 yard bouncing throw that had lost any pace off of the bounce, and yet Fam’s chest control saw it rebound 10-12 yards from him.  It wasn’t a bad throw to him that gave him little chance of controlling it.

[Prinny]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Simplistically, did the throw benefit us , lose us the ball when we could’ve kept it by better routine or a bit in between / meh

The overall summary for me is that across 20 throw-ins we were generally better than we have been.  Wyscout stats say we were 76% successful yesterday, but I think that’s a figure that adds little value without looking at the actual throws themselves.

Mm that's why I asked for a bit of clarification.

Successful throw ins... I'd rather know if they were a good throw in or not because things like Diedhiou's control shouldn't result in a negative mark IMO when were trying to judge the throw in aspect of the situation.

[bcfc01]

It certainly looks/feels like the throw ins have improved markedly from earlier this season and seasons prior to this one. 

A bit of movement helps.

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Mm that's why I asked for a bit of clarification.

Successful throw ins... I'd rather know if they were a good throw in or not because things like Diedhiou's control shouldn't result in a negative mark IMO when were trying to judge the throw in aspect of the situation.

Sounds like a good project for you next game !

 

[Prinny]

17 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Sounds like a good project for you next game !

I'm interested, but not interested enough to make a database on it.

Besides how can I judge if it's good or not? I'm not a professional.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Prinny said:

I'm interested, but not interested enough to make a database on it.

Besides how can I judge if it's good or not? I'm not a profession.

You don’t need a database - Just a pencil and a bit of paper !

With due respect You don’t need to be a pro to record whatever results , you are interested in 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You don’t need a database - Just a pencil and a bit of paper !

With due respect You don’t need to be a pro to record whatever results , you are interested in 

.....or you can just criticise the method of someone else’s work, when that someone has been arsed to do the initial analysis, and then explain their methodology.

Pretty sure the person critiquing has argued that being a pro or not makes no difference on this forum.  We are all equals I thought, none of us our pros!

If they want to evaluate throw-ins by a different method, then fine!  As you say pencil and paper, readily available, no database required.  I use a pen, a nice purple stabilo fine point, but each to their own!!

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

.....or you can just criticise the method of someone else’s work, when that someone has been arsed to do the initial analysis, and then explain their methodology.

Pretty sure the person critiquing has argued that being a pro or not makes no difference on this forum.  We are all equals I thought, none of us our pros!

If they want to evaluate throw-ins by a different method, then fine!  As you say pencil and paper, readily available, no database required.  I use a pen, a nice purple stabilo fine point, but each to their own!

 

I remember doing a personal pet project on why Bob Taylor’s goals had dried up once and tracked his movement all game for a few games , pencil and paper , and how often he was getting in the box etc

I approached him and offered him the results ......... putting it politely he wasn’t very interested to be quite honest !

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

I remember doing a personal pet project on why Bob Taylor’s goals had dried up once and tracked his movement all game for a few games , pencil and paper , and how often he was getting in the box etc

I approached him and offered him the results ......... putting it politely he wasn’t very interested to be quite honest !

So you started the craze for Box Entries....all the way back in 1991.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

So you started the craze for Box Entries....all the way back in 1991.

I think Bob , by his facial reaction , would have probably liked to have put me in a box !

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I think Bob , by his facial reaction , would have probably liked to have put me in a box !

The throw-in consultant who worked for Liverpool has just replied to my tweet on the subject!!

[Sheltons Army]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The throw-in consultant who worked for Liverpool has just replied to my tweet on the subject!!

Interesting

What did he say ?

[Prinny]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

.....or you can just criticise the method of someone else’s work, when that someone has been arsed to do the initial analysis, and then explain their methodology.

I'm agreeing with you that  "I think that’s a figure that adds little value without looking at the actual throws themselves." I can just say I'd prefer something slightly different and explain why, after you explain though for debate purposes. I did click "thanks" for doing the work and liked your explanation.

Pretty sure the person critiquing has argued that being a pro or not makes no difference on this forum.  We are all equals I thought, none of us our pros!

That's the point, Sheltons has argued previously that you can't have an opinion if you haven't played the game. I'm mocking that idea.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Interesting

What did he say ?

Just liked a couple of tweets and replied with some links to his stuff

 

[Mad Cyril]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

It certainly looks/feels like the throw ins have improved markedly from earlier this season and seasons prior to this one. 

That is a bit like putting a positive spin on today's Covid death toll