chinapig Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: My conspiracy theory on that is we are walking a bit of a tightrope ahead of March- perhaps we're under some sort of soft embargo or require EFL approval for acquisitions etc (along with much of the League), pre-emptive measures for FFP can and do kick in. EFL can do that, require a club to work to a budget- they stopped Reading loaning Riquelme (not that one) I believe. If that was the case, given the general state of finances in the Championship, we would still be unlikely to be unique. Nor would we have wasted time interviewing but would have appointed Holden straight away I would have thought. Though it was odd that Ashton was not pressed on the accounts in his interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Malago said: Neither Holden or Ashton are the problem. They are simply symptoms of the problem. The problem is Steve Lansdown. No end of OTIB threads is going to change his controlling attitude and lack of ambition. This is his club and he will do what he wants because he can, nothing said on here will change his mind. He may notice a sharp decline in ST sales but hardly, the "plan" will go on and nothing will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: My conspiracy theory on that is we are walking a bit of a tightrope ahead of March- perhaps we're under some sort of soft embargo or require EFL approval for acquisitions etc (along with much of the League), pre-emptive measures for FFP can and do kick in. Would you be vastly surprised? EFL can do that, require a club to work to a budget- they stopped Reading loaning Riquelme (not that one) I believe. I will have to see the post match comments in full though. The recent accounts prove we are well inside FFP limits....albeit trending down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: The recent accounts prove we are well inside FFP limits....albeit trending down. Yes, but I have concerns about how reliant on Player Sales we are and the Projecting forward info bit- then again there was an assumption in general that fans would be back for Test Events in October and that it might work its way up from there. We'll see anyway- think all clubs are walking a bit of a tightrope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, marmite said: Sorry but you are argueing against your own point here. You admit that you knew what he was saying was bullshit, but you don't think he was trying to con us. If we all knew the truth beforehand, then why did they try to spin the promise of something different to us. all it needed was a bit of honesty from the club., not misleading spin. Not arguing my own point at all. I dont feel stitched up by what he said. I set my own expectation at the time which differed from his and things are panning out as I expected it might. I'm ok with that and don't feel stitched up by him - or conned. He can come out again and say we're still aiming for a top 6 if he wants - we can all see thats not likely and it won't change my opinion of where we'll end and I still won't feel stitched up or conned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Yes, but I have concerns about how reliant on Player Sales we are and the Projecting forward info bit- then again there was an assumption in general that fans would be back for Test Events in October and that it might work its way up from there. If you think that out of dozens and dozens of applications / expressions of interest they would have had , that DH was the only one likely to accept budget restrictions then , with due respect , you are completely naive Mr P And anyway we should have had a target list of Head Coaches who we had identified as performing and who would fit in with IUncle Steve’s philosophy - That was one of Ashton’s responsibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, Sheltons Army said: If you think that out of dozens and dozens of applications / expressions of interest they had that DH was the only one likely to accept budget restrictions then , with due respect , you are completely naive Mr P And anyway we should have had a target list of Head Coaches who we had identified as performing and who would fit in with IUncle Steve’s philosophy - That was one of Ashton’s responsibilities Okay maybe then, I just wonder if Hughton might have- the ones I really recall were Hughton, Cook, Lowe- sure there were others on the list that came out publicly but they are those I recall. Agreed with that, ones who could and work with a budget- but some of those might not have been the most desirable options, albeit more experienced than Holden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said: Not arguing my own point at all. I dont feel stitched up by what he said. I set my own expectation at the time which differed from his and things are panning out as I expected it might. I'm ok with that and don't feel stitched up by him - or conned. He can come out again and say we're still aiming for a top 6 if he wants - we can all see thats not likely and it won't change my opinion of where we'll end and I still won't feel stitched up or conned. Ok. Fair enough, you had your own views. So where do you think we will end up in the table and do you think DH is the man to take us forward, and if you are a s/t holder, how do you feel about renewing if DH stays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: Okay maybe then, I just wonder if Hughton might have- the ones I really recall were Hughton, Cook, Lowe- sure there were others on the list that came out publicly but they are those I recall. Agreed with that, ones who could and work with a budget- but some of those might not have been the most desirable options, albeit more experienced than Holden. Simple question - out of the ones who would jump at the chance to come here with whatever budget ( of course we don’t know who would or wouldn’t but there would be more than I think you believe - McCarthy for one , just for example ) Do you believe that DH was the best prospect ? FWIW I think the players may have influenced it somewhat - dangerous in itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Eyes forward front foot football, 532 / 352 as a permanent system is what we were promised by Holden. Haven't seen too much of that since early in the season tbh......and don't blame injuries on that we still have had a decent squad of players to pick from. DH was never the right man to take us forward but (due to covid) we will be stuck with him for at least another season imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: Simple question - out of the ones who would jump at the chance to come here with whatever budget ( of course we don’t know who would or wouldn’t but there would be more than I think you believe - McCarthy for one , just for example ) Do you believe that DH was the best prospect ? FWIW I think the players may have influenced it somewhat - dangerous in itself Someone like Cook would walk over broken glass for a budget like City wouldn’t he. But I don’t think he’d work in the current set up. The power Ashton has over recruitment is a huge sticking point. I don’t think it’s budget that’s the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said: Eyes forward front foot football, 532 / 352 as a permanent system is what we were promised by Holden. Haven't seen too much of that since early in the season tbh......and don't blame injuries on that we still have had a decent squad of players to pick from. DH was never the right man to take us forward but (due to covid) we will be stuck with him for at least another season imho. Plenty of opportunity to have gone back to 352, even before Mawson came back. It’s not all about formation, but there are too many spells of games we can’t get a foothold in. After about 55 minutes today the game went scrappy for 5 minutes. For me this was the moment to seize control....instead it was Derby that did. Why can’t it be us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, Sheltons Army said: Simple question - out of the ones who would jump at the chance to come here with whatever budget ( of course we don’t know who would or wouldn’t but there would be more than I think you believe - McCarthy for one , just for example ) Do you believe that DH was the best prospect ? FWIW I think the players may have influenced it somewhat - dangerous in itself He'll have been one of the least experienced so based on that, perhaps not- Holden I mean. Yes he does/did seem rather popular with the players. That wouldn't be desirable if that got him the gig tbh. I suppose Holden could still be a Holding appointment and go again in the summer- Cook definitely now, which wasn't clear in summer 2020 seems like he will be available if still out of work- McCarthy might be too, only on a 6 month deal at Cardiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Someone like Cook would walk over broken glass for a budget like City wouldn’t he. But I don’t think he’d work in the current set up. The power Ashton has over recruitment is a huge sticking point. I don’t think it’s budget that’s the issue. When you say power over Dave what are you thinking ? (You know my views) i think it’s more to do with the ‘person’ / persona that the Lansdowns want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, marmite said: Ok. Fair enough, you had your own views. So where do you think we will end up in the table and do you think DH is the man to take us forward, and if you are a s/t holder, how do you feel about renewing if DH stays? I still think we'll end up mid table but given the way things are going I'll be happy with staying up. I dont mean that sarcastically. With football as it is at the moment, the main priority has to make our Championship status stable. In terms of Dean; he might be the right man to take us forward IF (a big if) he develops as a manager and can get the best out of the coaching team to improve the team (tactics/instructions etc). If he can't show signs of that by then end of the season, then no, I don't believe he will be able to take us forward. I am an ST. I didn't renew this season mainly because of COVID, and hopefully that situation improves/lowers the risk for big gatherings then maybe I'll renew. I dont think COVID will alow it though so I'm think the season after next. Edit - sorry I didnt answer your last point but, yes I would if he's still in charge. I'm willing to give him this season before I get the knives out for him. He has to be given the chance to develop his skills and that of his coaching team to improve the situation (even given how frustrating the team are performing on the pitch right now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Honestly I just hope Ashton is busy right now getting a list together of potential managers for when Holden goes, so we don't have the mess of last summer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: When you say power over Dave what are you thinking ? (You know my views) i think it’s more to do with the ‘person’ / persona that the Lansdowns want Dave will respond himself of course and may disagree with my response but the power relationship (and maybe frustration with it) was exposed today when Holden said he had no idea if more players would come in, that being out of his hands. Think about it, a Head Coach who has no idea if we have more recruitment planned and indicates that he has no control over that. Extraordinary yet unsurprising in a Bristol City context. I think your person/persona point fits with this though, in that the person concerned has to accept that he is indeed not in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, chinapig said: Dave will respond himself of course and may disagree with my response but the power relationship (and maybe frustration with it) was exposed today when Holden said he had no idea if more players would come in, that being out of his hands. Think about it, a Head Coach who has no idea if we have more recruitment planned and indicates that he has no control over that. Extraordinary yet unsurprising in a Bristol City context. I think your person/persona point fits with this though, in that the person concerned has to accept that he is indeed not in control. In fairness , and I listened to the I/v , I read that totally different To me he was merely saying that there was nothing in the offing but he doesn’t know or can’t be sure , as in the last two days of the window , calls may come in and change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, YGBjammy said: Honestly I just hope Ashton is busy right now getting a list together of potential managers for when Holden goes, so we don't have the mess of last summer again. If Ashton is involved, it will be the same old mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: In fairness , and I listened to the I/v , I read that totally different To me he was merely saying that there was nothing in the offing but he doesn’t know or can’t be sure , as in the last two days of the window , calls may come in and change that In which case why did he not say that rather than say I have no idea and it's out of my hands and give the usual kind of stock response you suggest, which he has come out with before. Especially following on from the contradictory responses he and Ashton gave to Sky recently. At the very least they do not seem to be joined up despite apparently talking several times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 32 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: When you say power over Dave what are you thinking ? (You know my views) i think it’s more to do with the ‘person’ / persona that the Lansdowns want Scouts, analysts, reporting lines.....the CEO direct control over it. I agree on persona though too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Scouts, analysts, reporting lines.....the CEO direct control over it. I agree on persona though too. Ahh , yep , ok Id go with that - most managers have trusted aides in recruitment / scouts and would probably wish to incorporate them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, chinapig said: My guess is Cook yes, Hughton no. But that neither of them would have accepted having as little authority as Holden has. You know, the man who told us today that he had no idea if any more players would be coming in as that was out of his hands. Yes heard that aswell who is the actual manager Hoden or Ashton ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said: Yes heard that aswell who is the actual manager Holden or Ashton ? or SL? In all honesty, I just don't think his apparent desire to see City play in the Premier League is quite as strong as he lets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Like him or loathe him, Warnock has wanted the job in the past. Hughton, Cook, and countless other "you wouldn't believe some of the applicants" (SL and MA's words in interviews) Then we go and entrust the job to Dean Holden. Come on, who has a serious desire for Premier League football, Steve? I hate knocking Dean Holden. The guy is a really lovely bloke, genuine and really likable, and if SL is using the man as a covid-time coach, that is shocking btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: or SL? In all honesty, I just don't think his apparent desire to see City play in the Premier League is quite as strong as he lets on. No i agree he made a statement sometime back saying he hopes its in his time or if not in his sons reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said: No i agree he made a statement sometime back saying he hopes its in his time or if not in his sons reign. Such a winner in the world of money making and business. But he only "hopes" and crosses his fingers for success for his football club. Hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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