Berkshire Red Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Ashton has come under a lot of stick recently, and IMO rightly so. Just wondering, with the exception of players brought through the academy, which player purchased during the Ashton era have exceeded expectations at the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Rowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Webster but he was Johnson's choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Webster and Brownhill. Although LJ claimed that they were ‘his’ signings. A pretty lamentable tally given the number of players bought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Eros Pisano was pretty good if he came cheap. Shame about the injuries. Magnússon wasn't a bad purchase either. I'm guessing Brownhill was a LJ signing. If we'd sold CO'D to Leeds we'd probably be saying him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Berkshire Red said: Ashton has come under a lot of stick recently, and IMO rightly so. Just wondering, with the exception of players brought through the academy, which player purchased during the Ashton era have exceeded expectations at the club? Bentley, Webster, Brownhill, Bakinson, Weimann, Abraham, Kodjia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, And Its Smith said: Bentley, Webster, Brownhill, Bakinson, Weimann, Abraham, Kodjia Forgot about Weimann. Perhaps Eliasson as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Brownhill developed massively during his time here and became an excellent player. Webster. I didn’t have any idea when we signed him how good he’d be. Rowe. That’s all I can think of. Which doesn’t say much either for my memory or for our recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Bentley, Webster, Brownhill, Bakinson, Weimann, Abraham, Kodjia Kodjia ? Signed by Cotterill and Burt before Ashton joined surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, CodeRed said: Kodjia ? Signed by Cotterill and Burt before Ashton joined surely Take him off my list then. Couldn’t be bothered to check exactly when Ashton joined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, Berkshire Red said: Ashton has come under a lot of stick recently, and IMO rightly so. Just wondering, with the exception of players brought through the academy, which player purchased during the Ashton era have exceeded expectations at the club? Was JET before Ashton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 He may not be flavour of the month but Diedhiou has been pretty solid. Whether he has exceeded expectations is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Take him off my list then. Couldn’t be bothered to check exactly when Ashton joined About the time everything started to turn to shite I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: He may not be flavour of the month but Diedhiou has been pretty solid. Whether he has exceeded expectations is debatable. Solid - yep, fair enough. Then ask yourself whether a £5.3m record signing (at the time) was meant to be just solid? I know that’s me moving the goalposts, but surely part of the consideration. Certainly not exceeded expectations imho FWIW, here’s mine: Bentley, Brownhill, Webster, Bakinson - if you include loans then Abraham Borderline: Dasilva - would be a definite if not for injuries, Weimann Thats a 10% hit rate. I do appreciate there have been some decent signings too, but we should be doing better than 10%. In terms of “stinkers”: Tomlin, Hegeler, Matthews, Lucic, Ekstrand, Watkins, Palmer, plus loans of Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Henriksen Borderline stinkers: quite a few Some of the above I think are good players too, e.g. Woodrow and Henriksen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Bentley Abraham Eliasson Brownhill Webster Bakinson Weimann DaSilva Kalas Nagy Massengo O'Dowda Hunt (not been bad) Diedhiou Paterson Taylor Maenpaa Magnússon Pisano Martin Williams (hopefully) Walsh (hopefully) Bailey Wright wasn't bad and played a big part in the cup run season, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 30 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said: If we'd sold CO'D to Leeds we'd probably be saying him as well. I don’t think anyone could ever suggest that COD has exceeded expectations, although if he’d gone to Leeds he’d probably have benefitted from good coaching, so who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said: Bentley Abraham Eliasson Brownhill Webster Bakinson Weimann DaSilva Kalas Nagy Massengo O'Dowda Hunt (not been bad) Diedhiou Paterson Taylor Maenpaa Magnússon Pisano Martin Williams (hopefully) Walsh (hopefully) Bailey Wright wasn't bad and played a big part in the cup run season, They have all exceeded expectations? Can’t agree at all. Kalas certainly has not exceeded my expectations. Think he was better on loan than since he’s signed permanently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: They have all exceeded expectations? Can’t agree at all. Kalas certainly has not exceeded my expectations. Think he was better on loan than since he’s signed permanently Maybe I never read the original question, mine was more a list of players who I believe have proven to be decent players for us over the period of Mark Ashton's tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, Dolman_Stand said: Maybe I never read the original question, mine was more a list of players who I believe have proven to be decent players for us over the period of Mark Ashton's tenure. Yes, now please go and re-do your list and then stand in the corner with your hands on your head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said: Bentley Abraham Eliasson Brownhill Webster Bakinson Weimann DaSilva Kalas Nagy Massengo O'Dowda Hunt (not been bad) Diedhiou Paterson Taylor Maenpaa Magnússon Pisano Martin Williams (hopefully) Walsh (hopefully) Bailey Wright wasn't bad and played a big part in the cup run season, Haven't you got better things to do, Mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj77 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Apart from Bentley I don't think many have been decent, mediocre maybe. City wouldn't be in the position they are if they'd been decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 The loan signing Fabian Geifer seems to be overlooked in all this despite being about six and a half feet tall. Currently the number one choice with Wurzburger Kickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.J.Thribb Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 That NZ keeper was a doozy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Had this discussion yesterday with my dad. Webster, Bentley, Brownhill probably Elliason and maybe Weimann as well. That’s it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, handsofclay said: The loan signing Fabian Geifer seems to be overlooked in all this despite being about six and a half feet tall. Currently the number one choice with Wurzburger Kickers. I didn’t miss him. Imho he wasn’t a stinker, so he didn’t make my list. He was better than Marinovic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Jeez I forgot about Marinovic. How could I ever forget him??? That's like remembering Hardy but forgetting Laurel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Problem is it's not a black and white question. There are good players that might well have exceeded expectations under a different manager that failed here. Should Mark Ashton take flak for Tomlin being an arsehole or for Joe Williams buying a timeshare in our treatment room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said: Bentley Abraham Eliasson Brownhill Webster Bakinson Weimann DaSilva Kalas Nagy Massengo O'Dowda Hunt (not been bad) Diedhiou Paterson Taylor Maenpaa Magnússon Pisano Martin Williams (hopefully) Walsh (hopefully) Bailey Wright wasn't bad and played a big part in the cup run season, Blimey, that’s a lot of players who have exceeded expectations. Ashton and Co should be extremely proud of the job they are doing, if that’s the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Solid - yep, fair enough. Then ask yourself whether a £5.3m record signing (at the time) was meant to be just solid? I know that’s me moving the goalposts, but surely part of the consideration. Certainly not exceeded expectations imho FWIW, here’s mine: Bentley, Brownhill, Webster, Bakinson - if you include loans then Abraham Borderline: Dasilva - would be a definite if not for injuries, Weimann Thats a 10% hit rate. I do appreciate there have been some decent signings too, but we should be doing better than 10%. In terms of “stinkers”: Tomlin, Hegeler, Matthews, Lucic, Ekstrand, Watkins, Palmer, plus loans of Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Henriksen Borderline stinkers: quite a few Some of the above I think are good players too, e.g. Woodrow and Henriksen. Some interesting ones here- Tomlin was great on loan and reasonable until say October 2016 output wise- then fell off a cliff. Matthews was good on loan, why we re-signed him in the first place but then when he actually returned he was largely terrible- one of the Fulham goals around this time 4 years ago was a great example- was he even that interested 2nd loan spell? Thought Ekstrand was a fairly short term signing, wasn't he largely injured too? EDIT- just checked him, seems according to Wiki anyway he suffered from injuries at Watford in 2015/16 too and latterly when going to Rotherham, he also suffered from knee injuries. Given he proved himself a competent CB at this level with Watford and certainly wasn't too old, seems strange we didn't make more use of him- fitness permitting. Hegeler had a stint out injured, think we didn't play him in a shape that would get the best out of him additionally. He clearly wasn't suited to a CM 2- like a lot of our midfield signings tbh! For as long as we keep insisting on certain midfield shapes, we'll be at a disadvantage in this League I suspect. Woodrow as you say good player, unsure we saw the best of, Henriksen we used not so well. In terms of exceeding expectations none I think of those 6 I highlighted would have but outright fail or flop- more nuanced in a few instances IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, sinenomine said: Problem is it's not a black and white question. There are good players that might well have exceeded expectations under a different manager that failed here. Should Mark Ashton take flak for Tomlin being an arsehole or for Joe Williams buying a timeshare in our treatment room? He’s the one who bangs on about due diligence. Which I think now we can al agree is utter tosh given how the current players are proving so gutless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 The Henriksen episode is the one that bugs me. A guy who had not played competitively for months (in other words not match fit) but with quite the pedigree and what does LJ do? Flog him in midfield for about 4 games in a row, his performance worsening as he became more knackered and immediately he’s written off as being no good. Some of our man management has been really poor in the past couple of years, the latest being playing Taylor Moore on the left of a back 3, a position he clearly doesn’t like and struggles with, when we have Kalas who can naturally play in that position and frequently has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Street red Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Solid - yep, fair enough. Then ask yourself whether a £5.3m record signing (at the time) was meant to be just solid? I know that’s me moving the goalposts, but surely part of the consideration. Certainly not exceeded expectations imho FWIW, here’s mine: Bentley, Brownhill, Webster, Bakinson - if you include loans then Abraham Borderline: Dasilva - would be a definite if not for injuries, Weimann Thats a 10% hit rate. I do appreciate there have been some decent signings too, but we should be doing better than 10%. In terms of “stinkers”: Tomlin, Hegeler, Matthews, Lucic, Ekstrand, Watkins, Palmer, plus loans of Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Henriksen Borderline stinkers: quite a few Some of the above I think are good players too, e.g. Woodrow and Henriksen. Overall the recruitment has been nowhere near good enough and 10% isn't good at all but over the time Johnson started and Holden the turnover of players is way to high to have a successful playing squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Some interesting ones here- Tomlin was great on loan and reasonable until say October 2016 output wise- then fell off a cliff. Matthews was good on loan, why we re-signed him in the first place but then when he actually returned he was largely terrible- one of the Fulham goals around this time 4 years ago was a great example- was he even that interested 2nd loan spell? Thought Ekstrand was a fairly short term signing, wasn't he largely injured too? EDIT- just checked him, seems according to Wiki anyway he suffered from injuries at Watford in 2015/16 too and latterly when going to Rotherham, he also suffered from knee injuries. Given he proved himself a competent CB at this level with Watford and certainly wasn't too old, seems strange we didn't make more use of him- fitness permitting. Hegeler had a stint out injured, think we didn't play him in a shape that would get the best out of him additionally. He clearly wasn't suited to a CM 2- like a lot of our midfield signings tbh! For as long as we keep insisting on certain midfield shapes, we'll be at a disadvantage in this League I suspect. Woodrow as you say good player, unsure we saw the best of, Henriksen we used not so well. In terms of exceeding expectations none I think of those 6 I highlighted would have but outright fail or flop- more nuanced in a few instances IMO. And to summarise what you wrote above....we’ve signed some decent players on paper, but haven’t really thought how they’d fit in. FAILURE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Fordy62 said: I don’t think anyone could ever suggest that COD has exceeded expectations, although if he’d gone to Leeds he’d probably have benefitted from good coaching, so who knows! This exactly, many players were held back by coming to us, whether that’s down to poor coaching or behind the scenes problems we will never know. It’s pretty clear that Ashtons players and LJs players had different prospects when it came to selection. There can’t be many teams in the English game where the coach cannot choose his own player pool! I never claimed to like LJ but it always seemed like there were lots of non football problems that we will never know about - sometimes very well illustrated by the body language of the coaches pitch side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said: Bentley Abraham Eliasson Brownhill Webster Bakinson Weimann DaSilva Kalas Nagy Massengo O'Dowda Hunt (not been bad) Diedhiou Paterson Taylor Maenpaa Magnússon Pisano Martin Williams (hopefully) Walsh (hopefully) Bailey Wright wasn't bad and played a big part in the cup run season, I'd disagree that a lot of these have exceeded expectations and progressed at the club. You'd say Nagy, Massengo, O'Dowda, Martin, Walsh, Williams, Taylor have exceeded expectations? Kalas and Diedhiou, I'd argue given their price tags that they have gone on to prove themselves as bargains? Bentley has proved a bargain this season and has been a class signing, as was Abraham loan and the small fee paid for maenpaa. Webster also while expensive was a great addition and instantly improved us and made a significant profit. Otherwise I'd say a lot have been a waste of valuable wages and transfer fees for underwhelming performances in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Gilmartin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 The number of failures on the other hand ... De girolamo, lucic, woodrow, leko, Kent, Diony, engvall, hegeler, jonny smith, djuric, Watkins, Adelakun, Eisa, MARINOVIC, Giefer, szmodics, Rodri, Wells, Henriksen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, Berkshire Red said: I'd disagree that a lot of these have exceeded expectations and progressed at the club. You'd say Nagy, Massengo, O'Dowda, Martin, Walsh, Williams, Taylor have exceeded expectations? Kalas and Diedhiou, I'd argue given their price tags that they have gone on to prove themselves as bargains? Bentley has proved a bargain this season and has been a class signing, as was Abraham loan and the small fee paid for maenpaa. Webster also while expensive was a great addition and instantly improved us and made a significant profit. Otherwise I'd say a lot have been a waste of valuable wages and transfer fees for underwhelming performances in return. How much of the fails, or perceived fails, is down to coaching, development and setup though? As opposed to them being poor players verbatim. Not many have exceeded expectations though, agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Davefevs said: And to summarise what you wrote above....we’ve signed some decent players on paper, but haven’t really thought how they’d fit in. FAILURE. We also seem to have signed a lot of the same type of player, busybody central midfielders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Davefevs said: And to summarise what you wrote above....we’ve signed some decent players on paper, but haven’t really thought how they’d fit in. FAILURE. Yes true- failure of coaching/management and development (and increasingly) fitness too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: How much of the fails, or perceived fails, is down to coaching, development and setup though? As opposed to them being poor players verbatim. Not many have exceeded expectations though, agreed. I'd say certainly not purely Ashton fault, but as a CEO who was on the radio only a couple of weekends bigging himself up for his fantastic transfer dealings there have been an awful lot of failures and unusual signings that he has green lighted. Seems we change approach every season .. one year we go signing youth players from bayern Munich and Juventus. Then we go for foreign players from Sweden etc. Then we have a year of signing chelseas entire youth academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 19 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Bentley, Webster, Brownhill, Bakinson, Weimann, Abraham, Kodjia If Weimann has exceeded expectations, I'd hate to see what our expectations were of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.