Hxj Posted July 10, 2021 Report Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 hours ago, havanatopia said: Well, Parry is turning out to be an unmitigated disaster. I think that he has been incredibly successful at tightening up the rules, increasing transparency and keeping the majority of clubs onside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted July 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hxj said: I think that he has been incredibly successful at tightening up the rules, increasing transparency and keeping the majority of clubs onside. I agree to his smoochie talents on the last bit alright. In time they'll see through his salesmanship if not already just biding their time. As for the first bit... Tightening rules? What rules? And if we assume there are some, actually fit for purpose, using them would be a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherDerbyFan Posted July 11, 2021 Report Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 10/07/2021 at 01:53, Mr Popodopolous said: PPS, a few might be interested in this post. I am sure it won't happen but Derby you might recall fielded a Youth Team or not far off at Chorley in the FA Cup in January due to Covid... ...Technically, one game could mean Professional Standing- a lot of those in that game have not played for Derby before or after! Wonder if the EFL could impose this restriction while the issues remain live. Technically 27 but the rest still stands. Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Ebosele, McDonald, Buchanan, Forsyth, JBrown, Bielik, Shinnie, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Watson, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Kazim, Stretton and Hutchinson have all played first team games (Hutchinson only in L1 and L2) Bardell, Williams, Solomon, LThompson, Aghatise, Ibrahim, Duncan and Cybulski played in the Chorley game. The confusing but is further down on the EFL's embargo page. Given we've been told we can't sign anyone yet, the 'professional standing' rule applies as the 'established player' rule would only include 10 current players (Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Forsyth, Bielik, Shinnie, Hutchinson, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Kazim) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 11, 2021 Report Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, AnotherDerbyFan said: Technically 27 but the rest still stands. Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Ebosele, McDonald, Buchanan, Forsyth, JBrown, Bielik, Shinnie, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Watson, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Kazim, Stretton and Hutchinson have all played first team games (Hutchinson only in L1 and L2) Bardell, Williams, Solomon, LThompson, Aghatise, Ibrahim, Duncan and Cybulski played in the Chorley game. The confusing but is further down on the EFL's embargo page. Given we've been told we can't sign anyone yet, the 'professional standing' rule applies as the 'established player' rule would only include 10 current players (Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Forsyth, Bielik, Shinnie, Hutchinson, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Kazim) I can only guess that the distinction in rules for “Professional Standing” and “established player” is down to the embargo reason. Looks like you can be under Registration Embargo for reasons other than P&S. Derby themselves have 5 counts against them, one of which is P&S. Perhaps if Derby’s only issue was P&S, the established player rule might be applicable….but as we see, Derby have 4 other issues. That’s the only thing I can come up with. Derby County Regulation 16.2 - Failure to provide audited annual accounts Regulation 16.3 - Annual Accounts not filed with Companies House Regulation 17 - Default in payments to HMRC Regulation 51.2.3 - Default in paying transfer fee instalments Profit and Sustainability Rules - non-submission of audited accounts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted July 11, 2021 Report Share Posted July 11, 2021 58 minutes ago, Davefevs said: That’s the only thing I can come up with. It's where I got too as well - so it must be right! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherDerbyFan Posted July 12, 2021 Report Share Posted July 12, 2021 23 hours ago, Davefevs said: I can only guess that the distinction in rules for “Professional Standing” and “established player” is down to the embargo reason. Looks like you can be under Registration Embargo for reasons other than P&S. Derby themselves have 5 counts against them, one of which is P&S. Perhaps if Derby’s only issue was P&S, the established player rule might be applicable….but as we see, Derby have 4 other issues. That’s the only thing I can come up with. Derby County Regulation 16.2 - Failure to provide audited annual accounts Regulation 16.3 - Annual Accounts not filed with Companies House Regulation 17 - Default in payments to HMRC Regulation 51.2.3 - Default in paying transfer fee instalments Profit and Sustainability Rules - non-submission of audited accounts 22 hours ago, Hxj said: It's where I got too as well - so it must be right! That was the conclusion I came to shortly after posting too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Wow! Derby have paid their outstanding transfer fees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugofwar Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 More odd behaviour from Derby, shutting off a guaranteed steam of income. Administration looming perhaps? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/derby-county-tickets-lockdown-covid-24547868.amp?__twitter_impression=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 37 minutes ago, Pugofwar said: More odd behaviour from Derby, shutting off a guaranteed steam of income. Administration looming perhaps? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/derby-county-tickets-lockdown-covid-24547868.amp?__twitter_impression=true That is very, very strange. What business delays opening up revenue streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Derby County face starting season without a centre-back, says Wayne Rooney - BBC Sport Is that the sound of the world`s smallest violin I hear? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: Derby County face starting season without a centre-back, says Wayne Rooney - BBC Sport Is that the sound of the world`s smallest violin I hear? Come now, apparently poor little innocent Derby are being victimised by the evil EFL. Have a heart. Or not as the case may be. Of course if it wasn't for the grossly unfair transfer embargo they could have signed Richard Keogh to solve their centre back problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said: Derby County face starting season without a centre-back, says Wayne Rooney - BBC Sport Is that the sound of the world`s smallest violin I hear? The world’s smallest violin without any strings. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Really, really hope the EFL don't reverse the decision out of sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 Just now, Loco Rojo said: Really, really hope the EFL don't reverse the decision out of sympathy. You just know they will give them some sort of emergency dispensation though now the sainted Wayne has spoken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) Rules is Rules! Could they even grant it if the rules in play as they appear to be, they would be breaching their own Regulations and quite rightly I am sure the rest of the League would have something to say about that! Today they started with the following- the players are and will be in bold for a reason... The EFL have them where they want them to a decent extent, no grounds for clemency and no quarter should be given- oh they could drag the Accounts out to mid August, or thereabouts ie the submission to the EFL but that'll merely restrict them in the market...yet why drag out if all compliant and compliant using the EFL's accepted methodology? Anyway yes, the Starting XI. Roos Byrne Jagielka Davies? Buchanan Bird Shinnie Aluko Morrison Lawrence Baldock Subs also included Stearman. That's 4 trialists starting and one on the bench- not contracted due to the current situation, potentially trialists? As for Davies, who knows- he was at the Club but contract up in Summer and no news yet publicly as to renewal- no sign of Wisdom either on bench or in team, he like Davies saw his contract expire in the Summer, status unknown? Seen Ryan Allsop also mentioned elsewhere but he wasn't either in the team or on the bench. Edited July 18, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) I like this Tweet in response to the news today too. Indeed they shouldn't have- wonder if they've paid him his £2m or thereabouts in reported compensation yet. Edited July 19, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never to the dark side Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57887861 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57887861 Well, there`s a turn up - who could have predicted that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) Don't know what they’ve got to moan about - we had to play the last 6 months with no midfield and no striker! Edited July 19, 2021 by downendcity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: Well, there`s a turn up - who could have predicted that! Though I suspect we can predict the outcome. The phrase "there is some sympathy .." points in a certain direction. If the EFL say, "Tough, you knowingly broke the rules and you knew what the sanctions were" I might even start to believe they take the issue seriously though. Edited July 19, 2021 by chinapig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 The embargo does allow them to make signings but limits apply to contract lengths and fees that can be paid. They can put a team together but it will be weaker under the embargo. Sounds fair to me given their past behaviour that caused the embargo to be imposed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) Like I said Sunday, no quarter should be given by the EFL here. Derby have made their bed with their actions in the past and indeed present- Pearce wanted to build bridges and that can come in time but is- or should be- irrelevant to the matter in hand. There are different types of Embargo and for different reasons @WarksRobin For FFP/ P&S ie the Reading one- that's gone somewhat quiet apart from having signed nobody yet, the situation for them IIRC was something like: Wages not exceeding £600k per year. No Transfer fees payable. No loan fees payable. Contract length not exceeding 1 year for permanent signings and 6 months for loan signings. For Derby, as their issue is HMRC- yes lots of Clubs will be deferring with Agreement but I can only assume that if the EFL are involved, then there must be some falling behind on that, as well no Accounts at all for 2 years, Restatement etc- well to allow them to make signings no matter how limited in scope would risk giving them an unfair advantage between restrictions and Accounts submitted to the EFL's satisfaction. As such, it's quite possible that they are not allowed to sign anyone at all right now- Jagielka, Aluko, Morrison, Baldock- all starters- were trialists. Davies I have no idea, he was there last season, Stearman as sub also possibly a trialist or non contracted- Wisdom though he didn't make the team or bench, see also Davies and Allsop see the first 4 though no sign in the squad. @chinapig Think that just means that some Championship clubs have sympathy- ie among some other Clubs, whether it sways the EFL who knows. Edited July 19, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) What about this, though it won't happen in a million years. EFL approach Derby and offer a significant easement- in exchange for an agreed say 15 point deduction effective 2021/22 OR for the Interchangeable fixture list to finally have a use and accept swapping divisions with Wycombe effective immediately. Or maybe Derby approach and offer a significant price (ie a huge deduction in 2021/22 or swap divisions with Wycombe now) in exchange for a significant improvement of their situation- otherwise IMO no deal, the Restrictions stay! Two theoretical ideas- but the point remains that I'd be looking to extract a significant concession or set of concessions/price if I was the EFL here Edited July 19, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, chinapig said: Though I suspect we can predict the outcome. The phrase "there is some sympathy .." points in a certain direction. If the EFL say, "Tough, you knowingly broke the rules and you knew what the sanctions were" I might even start to believe they take the issue seriously though. Maybe the likes of Reading, the ones spending too much with little regard for the rules. The best thing Derby can do is get their accounts sorted, show some willing. Leaving it to 18th August is just giving the EFL opportunity to (rightly) play hardball. I sense administration and a points deduction….plus a tightrope on further points deducted if the accounts are not in order. Rooney can bleat all he likes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Maybe the likes of Reading, the ones spending too much with little regard for the rules. The best thing Derby can do is get their accounts sorted, show some willing. Leaving it to 18th August is just giving the EFL opportunity to (rightly) play hardball. I sense administration and a points deduction….plus a tightrope on further points deducted if the accounts are not in order. Rooney can bleat all he likes. Yes, it's hard to see why clubs would be sympathetic unless they are in a similar position. Or in other cases would like the regime weakened in case they find themselves facing sanctions in future. I fear that the fact that it's Rooney doing the bleating as opposed to a manager who is not a celebrity may carry more weight than it should. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 I hope clubs that have had to make some tough decisions over the last year to keep their books in order (to keep within the rules) lose their shit if the EFL back down on this. Rooney needs to wind his neck in, accept it and plan ahead accordingly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Davefevs said: Maybe the likes of Reading, the ones spending too much with little regard for the rules. The best thing Derby can do is get their accounts sorted, show some willing. Leaving it to 18th August is just giving the EFL opportunity to (rightly) play hardball. I sense administration and a points deduction….plus a tightrope on further points deducted if the accounts are not in order. Rooney can bleat all he likes. Agree with much of this, though my gut feeling is that they won't go into admin for a while longer and perhaps may avoid it entirely. 4 hours ago, Loco Rojo said: I hope clubs that have had to make some tough decisions over the last year to keep their books in order (to keep within the rules) lose their shit if the EFL back down on this. Rooney needs to wind his neck in, accept it and plan ahead accordingly. I wonder if they're entitled or just shall we say not terribly acquainted with the facts up there- look at the below the line comments on an article...Beaufort1 a notable exception! Agree with your post btw. "Even neutrals will now recognise that the EFL really does have a vendetta against the club and Mel Morris"!? Well, pretty sure most clubs will support the EFL in terms of the toughest of measures with respect to Derby County. Not as petty as Mel in 2020 Hearing when he suggested the EFL, especially Shaun Harvey, had an axe to grind or the blah blah woe is me enemy of the EFL State etc blah. An even more empowered Regulator would probably step in quicker with regards to questionable Accounting and might have taken stronger steps more quickly against Clubs- not just but certainly including this one- with less recourse for Appeal- suggest they go back to the drawing board. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Saw this a few mins ago, made I laugh. As for one particular fool on DCFCFans who shall remain nameless. Quote Prize of a night out with Bristol's saddest banker if you guess who came up with this solution to embargo. The only clue I'm giving is that it's the same person your going on the night out with. What about this, though it won't happen in a million years. EFL approach Derby and offer a significant easement- in exchange for an agreed say 15 point deduction effective 2021/22 OR for the Interchangeable fixture list to finally have a use and accept swapping divisions with Wycombe effective immediately. Or maybe Derby approach and offer a significant price (ie a huge deduction in 2021/22 or swap divisions with Wycombe now) in exchange for a significant improvement of their situation- otherwise IMO no deal, the Restrictions stay! Two theoretical ideas- but the point remains that I'd be looking to extract a significant concession or set of concessions/price if I was the EFL here Happy to see the fool took a bit of bait- I was fishing a little though the EFL certainly need to play hardball- the 2nd Prize is two nights out with them, or better yet the booby prize! No prizes for guessing this one took a bite though. Edited July 20, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awbb Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) By and large, I have a lot of sympathy for fans in this situation as none of this is really their doing but there comes a point where they defend lunacy. Their owners and administrators have tried every tactic, greasy or otherwise, to get out of this and it appears that they have breached every single time it comes to audit. Not only that but there’s clearly a godawful culture at the club and absolute garbage being served up on the pitch. We, of all clubs know, from bitter, first-hand experience, that what would be best for them is a reset. All this manipulation just looks ridiculous, every football fan I talk to thinks Derby are basically a joke at this point. By refusing to accept they’ve broken the rules this ridiculous limbo will carry on and on and will probably end up with them being relegated in front of disinterested, dwindling support. Just take the punishment and relegation! Sort out the squad, culture and the pointless excesses! Restore some pride (it’s the name of their stadium for god’s sake)! Basically, get the house in order. Find the right manager and within a couple of seasons they’ll be right at the top of the 3rd tier. If it’s done well then it’s only likely to be a season or 2. It’s not the end of the world. Most of their fans will be loving it and they can be back in the Championship in a much better place than they are now. Yes they’ll lose a bit of sponsorship and TV money in the short term but if they’re in such a state to genuinely think that is going to make a difference they’re absolutely stuffed anyway. Edited July 20, 2021 by awbb Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 If I was the EFL I’d say, look at Bristol City, they had to play: Ryley Towler, Sam Bell, Alex Scott, Louis Britton, Tommy Conway, Sam Pearson, Opi Edwards, Owura Edwards, Saikou Janneh, James Morton, whilst Harvey Wiles-Richards and Zac Smith made the bench….several of those all featured in many squads. They had to deal with Covid too….maybe you should have been more careful. Get on with it, stop bleating. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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