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havanatopia

By havanatopia
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Malago

Malago

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So why should the rest of the EFL clubs pay their taxes in full if a crooked club like Derby can get away with this? Indeed, why should I pay my taxes if it's optional for them?

It’s the old saying.  If you owe the bank/revenue a £1,000, it’s your problem.  If you owe them a £1,000,000, it’s there problem.

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Midred

Midred

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So why should the rest of the EFL clubs pay their taxes in full if a crooked club like Derby can get away with this? Indeed, why should I pay my taxes if it's optional for them?

HMRC just send me a tax code every year and tell me what they're taking!

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ScottishRed

ScottishRed

Posted
Posted

We all saw this coming.

But given the state of the public purse and the economy in general this sets a hugely dangerous precedent by HMRC and not just in football.

Nothing to stop the owner of a limited company that is struggling to not pay taxes then put the company into administration,buy it back from the administrators at a highly discounted price and pay HMRC 25% of what was originally due.

There are more than enough business owners that would take this course of action. Madness, and a real kick in the teeth to individuals and businesses that do pay their dues.

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Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

We all saw this coming.

But given the state of the public purse and the economy in general this sets a hugely dangerous precedent by HMRC and not just in football.

Nothing to stop the owner of a limited company that is struggling to not pay taxes then put the company into administration,buy it back from the administrators at a highly discounted price and pay HMRC 25% of what was originally due.

There are more than enough business owners that would take this course of action. Madness, and a real kick in the teeth to individuals and businesses that do pay their dues.

I totally agree. I`ve just sent my paperwork to my accountant and am now nervously awaiting notification of how much tax is due at the end of the year. I`m already trying to work out various options for paying it when I know what it will be,

What I should do is take the route you have detailed above and just say **** it, if it`s OK for Derby it`s OK for me but I`m not a cheating, tax-avoiding crook like some football club owners.

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I totally agree. I`ve just sent my paperwork to my accountant and am now nervously awaiting notification of how much tax is due at the end of the year. I`m already trying to work out various options for paying it when I know what it will be,

What I should do is take the route you have detailed above and just say **** it, if it`s OK for Derby it`s OK for me but I`m not a cheating, tax-avoiding crook like some football club owners.

 "Cheating, tax avoiding crook" sounds like football's interpretation of a "fit and proper person? :shocking:

Edited by downendcity
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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

Posted
Posted

Big day for Derby today - a turning point, some might say..! 

After several years of turmoil, it must be days like today that their supporters dreamt of, to get them through those hard times. 

It's a bit like if we'd had a friendly against Real Madrid, back in 1982/83..!

 

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BTRFTG

BTRFTG

Posted
Posted
On 28/10/2022 at 19:02, Davefevs said:

HMRC accepted 25p / £1. ???

So those who all along stated Derby were lowlife, cheating scumbags were proven right.

So come on EFL. You said there were mechanisms to ensure, should Derby fail to repay HMRC in full thus giving them an £18m+ advantage in their accounts, that non-payment would be penalised such they would NOT gain an unfair advantage over their peers. What are you going to do? (I won't hold my breath.....)

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

So those who all along stated Derby were lowlife, cheating scumbags were proven right.

So come on EFL. You said there were mechanisms to ensure, should Derby fail to repay HMRC in full thus giving them an £18m+ advantage in their accounts, that non-payment would be penalised such they would NOT gain an unfair advantage over their peers. What are you going to do? (I won't hold my breath.....)

There is, I believe the EFL post admin Business Plan.

No transfer fees, no loan fees apparently, heavily restricts remuneration...have read to £8m on players, dunno whether that's per year or how it is distributed. All incoming transfers must be approved by the EFL.

Whether it's tough enough is a different matter, would be interested to see how othet clubs react to this- I expect that they are or will be interested to say the least..

Remember the EFL is made up of the clubs and the clubs comprise the EFL.

Couple of the key details although how exactly they align?

£12k per week averaged across say a 25 man squad is a £15m annual wage bill yet the article states £8m per year??

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chinapig

chinapig

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

So those who all along stated Derby were lowlife, cheating scumbags were proven right.

So come on EFL. You said there were mechanisms to ensure, should Derby fail to repay HMRC in full thus giving them an £18m+ advantage in their accounts, that non-payment would be penalised such they would NOT gain an unfair advantage over their peers. What are you going to do? (I won't hold my breath.....)

By the same token, when accused of doing sweetheart deals HMRC issued a statement insisting they always recover the full amount due. Or, as it turns out, not.

As to the EFL, there are sanctions for failing to pay taxes but are there sanctions for failing to pay 100% of the amount due? Derby will argue that they have paid the reduced amount agreed by HMRC in full so no action should follow.

Kieran Maguire said this week that he had spoken to some owners of Championship clubs who had to borrow to meet their tax liabilities and they are furious.

But of course we know from Derby fans that they are special so there is that to take into account.

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East Londoner

East Londoner

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There is, I believe the EFL post admin Business Plan.

No transfer fees, no loan fees apparently, heavily restricts remuneration...have read to £8m on players, dunno whether that's per year or how it is distributed. All incoming transfers must be approved by the EFL.

Whether it's tough enough is a different matter, would be interested to see how othet clubs react to this- I expect that they are or will be interested to say the least..

Remember the EFL is made up of the clubs and the clubs comprise the EFL.

Couple of the key details although how exactly they align?

£12k per week averaged across say a 25 man squad is a £15m annual wage bill yet the article states £8m per year??

Didn’t stop them poaching another teams manager though..

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BTRFTG

BTRFTG

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There is, I believe the EFL post admin Business Plan.

No transfer fees, no loan fees apparently, heavily restricts remuneration...have read to £8m on players, dunno whether that's per year or how it is distributed. All incoming transfers must be approved by the EFL.

Whether it's tough enough is a different matter, would be interested to see how othet clubs react to this- I expect that they are or will be interested to say the least..

Remember the EFL is made up of the clubs and the clubs comprise the EFL.

Couple of the key details although how exactly they align?

£12k per week averaged across say a 25 man squad is a £15m annual wage bill yet the article states £8m per year??

£12k per week in Div 1, Preston in the Championship at £9k? Where's the levelling up?

They also appear to have little trouble in signing anybody with a pulse. Some embargo that. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

£12k per week in Div 1, Preston in the Championship at £9k? Where's the levelling up?

They also appear to have little trouble in signing anybody with a pulse. Some embargo that. 

I mean, what is not clear is how the £8m costs align with £12k per week.

If it's up to £12k each and every week over 2 years them they are potentially spending up to twice their allowance. 25 man squad, £8m x 2 years would still only leave £16m in 2 years on wages yet with up to £12k per week it approached that in Year 1 alone??

Embargo wise, it looks like more of a 'soft' one whereby no transfer fees, loan fees, remuneration within specific parameters, EFL approval required for each signing.

Annualised, the average wage would be £6,153 per week. Dunno if that's inclusive or exclusive of NI etc.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Further, a good listen here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0dcqz9d

Log in then listen, seems that as expected Mel Morris was not passing this on.

Quantuma used it as a bargaining chip 'If we have to pay the full amount, we cannot sell the club' kinda thing.

Or if more has to be paid, it'd be a price whereby the Unsecured Creditors get <25p in the £...we can't sell the club at a price because a points deduction would follow

Mel Morris declined the chance to take the loan Kieran Maguire said, Derby a year or so ago said it was the EFL who refused.

Derby used the Covid delays etc to the max and went into administration as these came to an end.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

What are the odds on Quantuma getting any work in the future?

I'd be stunned if a football club going into admin took them on...they were hilariously incompetent for most of their tenure despite having at least one with experience of the football Insolvency industry (Andronikou- although his record at Portsmouth when they were in admin wasn't exactly competent. Unsure of his time at Swindon).

Some of their tactics might have merit in regular Insolvencies but they were badly out of their depth as far as football related Insolvency regs etc went. Otoh in a regular insolvency I doubt they get tax bill reduced by 2/3 or however much it was.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Chris Kirchner, yes the once great saviour, has been charged with fraud by the FBI.

 

Bullet dodged, the evidence seems pretty strong.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/local-companies/2023/02/14/feds-charge-dallas-tech-companys-ex-ceo-in-67-million-fraud/

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