New direction

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

**** me. If I wanted to be impressed by a brand new ground, training facilities and any other etcs - like what? - I’d have gone elsewhere.

Seems like you are easily pleased. Style over substance? Carry on.

We’ve gone backwards in the sense of not realising potential and making piss poor decisions and allowed those to define us.

Watched MOTD this morning. Southampton. Leeds. Wolves. Barnsley. BHA. Once our peers. Now?

And losses on the bounce to Bournemouth, Forest and WBA. With no passion or clue. Again once our peers….

And you want to quote mid Championship league positions over the past 20 years as being progress?

And I’m delighted you recall my belief that the emperor is indeed naked. Stark bollock.

Here’s another. All that glistens isn’t gold. Unless of course you’re the UBO of a multi-layered company that has set up a model that’s resulted in a massive investment in freeholds that will ensure his gold will always glisten.

Meantime we can look forward to Haze at nearly £6 a pint and tepid pies for £4…..

 

While I agree with lots you say, Southampton, Leeds, Wolves, Forest and WBA have been bigger clubs than us for most of my lifetime. In fact, we've never been peers with some of them, though all have spent time in the doldrums. In terms of years in the top flight, trophies won and even average attendances there is no comparison.

[IAmNick]

45 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

**** me. If I wanted to be impressed by a brand new ground, training facilities and any other etcs - like what? - I’d have gone elsewhere.

Seems like you are easily pleased. Style over substance? Carry on.

Hah. Yet if we hadn't done the above you can bet you'd be using it as an example of us not progressing.

If you don't recognise the importance of those things (ground, training facilities) in moving forwards then I don't know what to tell you.

45 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

We’ve gone backwards in the sense of not realising potential and making piss poor decisions and allowed those to define us.

Not realising potential isn't going backwards, it's not going forwards as quickly as you wanted. Second half is just waffle.

46 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Watched MOTD this morning. Southampton. Leeds. Wolves. Barnsley. BHA. Once our peers. Now?

Sorry, you think:

Wolves (3rd in div 1)

Leeds (5th in PL)

Southampton (11th in PL)

Were our peers when SL took over and historically? Hmm. Ok, not sure I really agree there.

Barnsley and Brighton maybe - but we were also in the same division as Chesterfield, Northampton, Bury, Wrexham, Cambridge, Swindon, Port vale, Colshester.

Some teams have definitely surpassed us, and we're surpassed some others as well. If you pick out all the winners and ignore the losers that's not a great argument for us "going backwards" though is it?

49 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

And losses on the bounce to Bournemouth, Forest and WBA. With no passion or clue. Again once our peers….

Forest? Our peers? You can't be serious.

49 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

And you want to quote mid Championship league positions over the past 20 years as being progress?

Ok so if we ignore all the off the pitch progress, and ignore the on the pitch progress, we haven't made progress. Great argument!

 

Lets remember you said we'd gone backwards. In reality we just haven't gone forwards as quickly as you wanted, or thought we should have - huge difference there, and I might even agree with you.

50 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Here’s another. All that glistens isn’t gold. Unless of course you’re the UBO of a multi-layered company that has set up a model that’s resulted in a massive investment in freeholds that will ensure his gold will always glisten.

What's that got to do with us making progress or not?

Problem is you've started at your conclusion and are trying to work backwards.

[Red Exile]

There's always so much emotion in a criticism of Steve Lansdown's stewardship. I appreciate why. But surely his biggest supporters can accept that his tenure has been disappointing? We might be in the second tier, the ground may have been upgraded and we may occasionally have been shown glimpses of something exciting on the pitch...but I struggle to recall the last time I walked away from Ashton Gate excited by our performance. It's a frustrating misery watching City play, and has been for several seasons.

And as for his 20 years...it was ridiculous that we couldn't get out of the third tier until GJ came along...'trust me on Tinnion.' It was equally ridiculous that we couldn't capitalise on the position GJ got us into...Coppell, Keith Millen? Cotts and Keith Burt having done a brilliant job the appointment of LJ was an indulgence on Lansdown's part, a gamble that didn't work for all his investment...Mark Ashton?...Holden might be the most inexplicable decision of the lot.

As he occasionally reminds us it's his club, he's had 20 years...and we're currently watching kids and journeymen.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 24/10/2021 at 12:11, BigAl&Toby said:

**** me. If I wanted to be impressed by a brand new ground, training facilities and any other etcs - like what? - I’d have gone elsewhere.

Seems like you are easily pleased. Style over substance? Carry on.

We’ve gone backwards in the sense of not realising potential and making piss poor decisions and allowed those to define us.

Watched MOTD this morning. Southampton. Leeds. Wolves. Barnsley. BHA. Once our peers. Now?

And losses on the bounce to Bournemouth, Forest and WBA. With no passion or clue. Again once our peers….

And you want to quote mid Championship league positions over the past 20 years as being progress?

And I’m delighted you recall my belief that the emperor is indeed naked. Stark bollock.

Here’s another. All that glistens isn’t gold. Unless of course you’re the UBO of a multi-layered company that has set up a model that’s resulted in a massive investment in freeholds that will ensure his gold will always glisten.

Meantime we can look forward to Haze at nearly £6 a pint and tepid pies for £4…..

All bigger clubs than us historically, FWIW. At relatively low ebbs and there is an argument to say that we didn't capitalise at key times but those sides always had many years more in the top 2 divisions than us over the years- the bolded ones.

Dunno, there's no real simple answer- like I say 2008 was a prime example of a wasted opportunity, roll the dice in January that year and we may well go up. 2017/18, we were somewhat constrained by FFP but should have made the playoffs IMO- with all the recent experience of Cup ties that absolutely would have counted in our favour.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 23/10/2021 at 21:06, Red Exile said:

I respect - indeed enjoy! - your posts...

My question here is how long is a 'quick fix'? Steve Lansdown has promised the earth - and had it in his grasp. He's let it slip.

When I watched the side trudge off the pitch at the end of our last home game in the top flight I'd yet to leave school.

I'm on the verge of retirement. 

 

Thank you- indeed I respect your posts too.

Ah I think we're cross purposes across the 2 paragraphs- I mean in terms of clearing headroom, allowing NP to build the squad his way- perhaps a 2 year process, although if Williams comes back fit and combines with Massengo and James in midfield, Semenyo kicks on as hope and we can get a nice tight 4-3-3...Bentley- Tanner, Kalas, Atkinson, DaSilva- Massengo, James, Williams- Weimann, Wells/Martin, Semenyo- perhaps this process could speed up a bit. Vyner, Baker, Pring, King, Scott, Martin/Wells to compete and cover. Maybe in a minority but I believe that side fit and playing together for a while has potential to be quite cohesive- have to be all fit and in useful form though- but could speed up my 2 year timeline a bit. Could go for some games e.g. Baker at LB, or Scott-Weimann/Wells/Martin-Semenyo...perhaps rotation of the 3 dependent on form, fitness etc. The rest I'm not so sold on although O'Leary is competent backup when called upon and Bakinson at least has age on his side.

That initial side I listed, with the first reserves...I'm not sure we've been able to play it once this season. Always one or two injured, suspended- carrying knocks whatever.

Here's an 18...

Bentley; Tanner, Kalas, Atkinson, DaSilva; Williams, James, Massengo; Weimann, Wells, Semenyo... Subs O'Leary; Vyner, Baker; King, Pring, Scott, Martin. Reason I bench Martin is simply as I worry we overplay him- but I think that 18 if it gets a regular run with reasonable and consistent fitness isn't so bad. Weimann and Semenyo- wide forwards, but not wingers, absolutely not wingers. Still out of possession they can press or look to pull wider to avoid overloads to the full backs but largely wider forwards.

Yeah when you put it like the 3rd and 4th paragraphs...full respect for sticking with it so long! Suppose I am from a different angle, I started in 1998 when we were more often in League One and the Championship was a bit of a distant dream- that has reversed to an extent under SL. Ground, the unfortunately at this time ironically named 'High Performance Centre'- fanbase grown- that is all positives, youth products being sold for more.

I'm somewhere in the middle on things tbh. Think we could do a lot worse than SL, many clubs have and will but failure to roll the dice in 2008 and poor management or similar in 2018 denied us top 2 and playoffs respectively. We have never won through the playoffs ie gone up but this is where momentum kicks in again...in the past few seasons...

2013/14

Rovers JPT- In front of a virtual full house in the JPT, raucous atmosphere.

2014/15

1. Won JPT
2. Reached Round 4 of FA Cup vs West Ham, played well- in front of the cameras.

2015/16

West Brom away- one of the final games under Cotts but we played very well, a lot better than Saturday. FA Cup.

2016/17

1. Round 4 of Carling Cup
2. Round 4 of FA Cup

2017/18

1. The brilliant semi final run- beating 4 PL sides and taking Man City all the way.

Random assortment but what does that all have in common? Significant- for us anyway- experience of Cup ties, Cup runs and going deep into tournaments. What are the playoffs if not in effect Cup ties...and we had the bulk of that squad still there in 2017/18, in a sense a perfect opportunity to overturn our playoff record and go up that way- had we just made the top 6!! Maybe some of it could've carried on into 2018/19 too but Bryan, Flint and Reid all sold...

Edited October 26, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Major Isewater]

On 23/10/2021 at 21:16, BigTone said:

Be careful what you wish for

[harvey54]

Not been the same since Harry Styles went solo