Joe Williams out Sunday?

[DT The Optimist]

Now reported Joe felt hamstring in other leg, hence his substitution last night.  NP saying not the one which was recent issue.   However minor. 
Let’s hope James back Sunday if that is the case, cannot envisage a scenario where they would risk him 4 days later and make it worse…

such a good player and seems blighted with niggles. Let’s home the new sports injuries team sort him 
 

[Port Said Red]

I thought he made a lot of mistakes last night, mistakes that a less popular player would have received a lot more criticism for. As far as the injury goes, I do wonder whether he it is a worry for him sub-consciously. 

[Super]

9 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought he made a lot of mistakes last night, mistakes that a less popular player would have received a lot more criticism for. As far as the injury goes, I do wonder whether he it is a worry for him sub-consciously. 

Was it him that made the back pass in the first half which nearly led to a goal?

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Was it him that made the back pass in the first half which nearly led to a goal?

Yes. A really odd one as you couldn't see what he was trying to do.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He did it on the right second half when dribbling and winning a throw with Fletcher trying to tackle him. Stayed on for a bit longer and was still sprinting so hopefully nothing too serious.

He's an important player but we looked fine once he went off.

Yrs he had s good muscle stretch after the tackle. But seemed Okies after. And I did feel he did not look totally happy all the time he was on last night. Did some good stuff as per normal but that dreadful back pass. He just seemed not 100% to me from the start . Def rest Sunday do we need King back 

 

[Dullmoan Tone]

Apart from the crazy back pass he is one of the few players who seem to be comfortable playing the ball from a tight position without going back to Bentley or hoofing it.

He could be our most effective player?

Interesting Stoke manager said our only threat was a long throw - A fully fit Williams would add so much more for the opposition to worry about. Will be great to see him and James fit and firing for 5 consecutive games?

[Redstart]

Can't deny we look more solid as a team when he plays. 

[Port Said Red]

3 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Apart from the crazy back pass he is one of the few players who seem to be comfortable playing the ball from a tight position without going back to Bentley or hoofing it.

He could be our most effective player?

Interesting Stoke manager said our only threat was a long throw - A fully fit Williams would add so much more for the opposition to worry about. Will be great to see him and James fit and firing for 5 consecutive games?

Really? I would have thought he might have been a bit worried about CO'D bombing past his full back and whipping in crosses, but hey maybe that's why I am not a Manager.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Just now, JonDolman said:

Yeah he might have not been right all game. Just thought the stretch and look he gave might have meant he felt something then.

A fit Williams is so important to the team. But at present he seems to be going from one niggle to another. Which is all round worrying situ. I do feel Bakinson stepped up well when Williams went off. And I have Been big Bakinson doubter. But do not want to see Bakinson cover the Williams role from starting a game which means needing a fit King. Injury's not so many this season but not helping us again 

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

A fit Williams is so important to the team. But at present he seems to be going from one niggle to another. Which is all round worrying situ. I do feel Bakinson stepped up well when Williams went off. And I have Been big Bakinson doubter. But do not want to see Bakinson cover the Williams role from starting a game which means needing a fit King. Injury's not so many this season but not helping us again 

I think that playing him midweek is the problem, it seems to me that he has had issues every time we have played him to games in quick succession. 

[bcfc01]

3 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

A fit Williams is so important to the team. But at present he seems to be going from one niggle to another. Which is all round worrying situ. I do feel Bakinson stepped up well when Williams went off. And I have Been big Bakinson doubter. But do not want to see Bakinson cover the Williams role from starting a game which means needing a fit King. Injury's not so many this season but not helping us again 

I think King is out for some time ?

James should be ok for sunday.

[supercidered]

14 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Apart from the crazy back pass he is one of the few players who seem to be comfortable playing the ball from a tight position without going back to Bentley or hoofing it.

He could be our most effective player?

Interesting Stoke manager said our only threat was a long throw - A fully fit Williams would add so much more for the opposition to worry about. Will be great to see him and James fit and firing for 5 consecutive games?

Oh the f@ckin irony !!

That was Stoke's only threat for years !!

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Really? I would have thought he might have been a bit worried about CO'D bombing past his full back and whipping in crosses, but hey maybe that's why I am not a Manager.

Michael O'Neil's post game comments were massively disrespectful to us and incredibly one-eyed. Apparently, they "should have had a penalty". I suppose he didn't notice the handball in their box in the first half?

That guy has gone right down in my estimation.

[B1ackbird]

Just now, supercidered said:

Oh the f@ckin irony !!

That was Stoke's only threat for years !!

And breaking opponents legs..

[DT The Optimist]

 

His playing record (our best friend Wiki) apart from his time here is more than respectable.   38 appearances in a full season for Wigan before he arrived here.

I thought last night he was 'not himself' and commented to my mate perhaps his match fitness not quite there yet after such a long lay off to play Saturday midweek etc. 

Joe is one of the bright spots from the previous regimes....when fit

Club	Season	League			FA Cup		League Cup		Other		Total
		Division	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals
Everton	2017–18[5]	Premier League	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	2018–19[13]	Premier League	0	0	0	0	0	0	—		0	0
	Total		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Barnsley (loan)	2017–18[5]	Championship	34	1	1	0	3	0	—		38	1
Bolton Wanderers (loan)	2018–19[13]	Championship	29	0	0	0	0	0	—		29	0
Wigan Athletic	2019–20[14]	Championship	38	1	1	0	1	0	—		40	1

[Port Said Red]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Michael O'Neil's post game comments were massively disrespectful to us and incredibly one-eyed. Apparently, they "should have had a penalty". I suppose he didn't notice the handball in their box in the first half?

That guy has gone right down in my estimation.

Was that when their player had his hand caught in Massengo's hair?

[Harry]

Yes he did make 2 errors last night. The back pass, plus a bad blind square ball on the halfway line that lost possession, but aside from that he had a good first half and made plenty of tackles and interceptions. 
I did wonder if we should’ve played him though. He clearly needed to be managed back gradually and I wonder if a rest last night would have been the better option and then play him again Sunday. 
Guess the lack of options in the middle made the decision to play him. 
I think he’s a crucial player for us so we shouldn’t have played him last night. 

[Harry]

20 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Michael O'Neil's post game comments were massively disrespectful to us and incredibly one-eyed. Apparently, they "should have had a penalty". I suppose he didn't notice the handball in their box in the first half?

That guy has gone right down in my estimation.

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

[hinsleburg]

I thought the substitution looked pre-meditated  to me (Which would have been bold  given the state of the game!)

I don't think he was ever going to play the full 90 especially with a game coming up Sunday, but an hour will help match fitness and hopefully prevent these niggly injuries for him. Was in constant communication with the physios and bench 2nd half, think he was desperate to stay on but the decision was made to haul him off (Which seems sensible if he was suffering from tightness)

Wasn't as good last night as Saturday but thought he still had a really solid game in there other than the obvious error. Think he really contributes to the 'bite' and gives other players confidence to throw themselves about a bit as there's a bit more fight in the team with him in it!

Hope it was pre-meditated and precautionary as think he'll be needed again Sunday

[Davefevs]

58 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Yes. A really odd one as you couldn't see what he was trying to do.

Those bloody invisible green shirts I reckon!

41 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I think King is out for some time ?

James should be ok for sunday.

King was gonna be early December….let’s hope he’s progressing.

26 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

 

His playing record (our best friend Wiki) apart from his time here is more than respectable.   38 appearances in a full season for Wigan before he arrived here.

I thought last night he was 'not himself' and commented to my mate perhaps his match fitness not quite there yet after such a long lay off to play Saturday midweek etc. 

Joe is one of the bright spots from the previous regimes....when fit

Club	Season	League			FA Cup		League Cup		Other		Total
		Division	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals
Everton	2017–18[5]	Premier League	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	2018–19[13]	Premier League	0	0	0	0	0	0	—		0	0
	Total		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Barnsley (loan)	2017–18[5]	Championship	34	1	1	0	3	0	—		38	1
Bolton Wanderers (loan)	2018–19[13]	Championship	29	0	0	0	0	0	—		29	0
Wigan Athletic	2019–20[14]	Championship	38	1	1	0	1	0	—		40	1

…and also if you bare in mind his age in those seasons….21, 22 and 23, that’s very good.  Shame our ex-Evertonian didn’t play as many in all his time here as Joe did in one season at Bolton.

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save

It was as blatant a pen as you’ll see. If that was against us, I’d be livid. 

[Red-Robbo]

32 minutes ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

 

As I said, he ignored penalty shouts our way. Suggested the admittedly crap ref was biased and came across as arrogant and a sore loser.  Maybe he should take up professional snooker?

[grifty]

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

It was as blatant a pen as you’ll see. If that was against us, I’d be livid. 

It was never a penalty. It may have looked like one, but the Stoke player had hold of Massengos hair and pulled him onto him and then fell over. 

[BS3_RED]

How long is Matty James out for?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I think that playing him midweek is the problem, it seems to me that he has had issues every time we have played him to games in quick succession. 

Yes I know, maybe he needs just to play weekends for bit . Which is a pity but better than on and off the injury list . Still sort of surprises me the medical team cannot seem to keep him fit. Or sort out a playing strategy for him that keeps him fit 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Rocking Red Cyril

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Was it him that made the back pass in the first half which nearly led to a goal?

Yes

[Rocking Red Cyril]

26 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

As I said, he ignored penalty shouts our way. Suggested the admittedly crap ref was biased and came across as arrogant and a sore loser.  Maybe he should take up professional snooker?

I feel after seemingly a good start to the season with refs in the Championship. They dropped back a lot in any sort of constituency. 

Why I wonder ?

Because I watch as much City as I can live and on robins,TV or wherever. And catch as much championship on box as allows and it seems across the board 

[Harry]

30 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

As I said, he ignored penalty shouts our way. Suggested the admittedly crap ref was biased and came across as arrogant and a sore loser.  Maybe he should take up professional snooker?

Yep. Our penalty shout was a good one. Theirs was blatant. 
End of the day, they were by far the better team, but we got the result. Of course their manager isn’t gonna be happy with that. 

29 minutes ago, grifty said:

It was never a penalty. It may have looked like one, but the Stoke player had hold of Massengos hair and pulled him onto him and then fell over. 

Perhaps he should get his hair cut then.

[2015]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

He did it on the right second half when dribbling and winning a throw with Fletcher trying to tackle him. Stayed on for a bit longer and was still sprinting so hopefully nothing too serious.

He's an important player but we looked fine once he went off.

I thought for 5-10 minutes after he went off we lost our bite in midfield a bit, but HNM got into it a bit more and we managed to get a foot hold in the game again. 

It wasn't Williams' best performance for us, but he is in credit for sure

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I feel after seemingly a good start to the season with refs in the Championship. They dropped back a lot in any sort of constituency. 

Why I wonder ?

Because I watch as much City as I can live and on robins,TV or wherever. And catch as much championship on box as allows and it seems across the board 

 

It is the lack of consistency that is so bad. Various Stoke players were allowed to climb all over Chris Martin, yet when O'Dowda did the same to a Stokie to jump for a long ball, it was given as a foul. There are lots of other examples. 

[maxjak]

It's weird ..........Williams played over one hundred games over 3 seasons prior to joining us, with hardly an injury.  Yet since he has been with us, it has been constant injury issues.  He is 25 next month, so has plenty of time ahead of him, just hope we can keep him fit and healthy, as he is a very important player for us.  He seems to have developed an ongoing weakness with his hamstrings, hoping our medical team can sort him out?

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Those bloody invisible green shirts I reckon!

King was gonna be early December….let’s hope he’s progressing.

…and also if you bare in mind his age in those seasons….21, 22 and 23, that’s very good.  Shame our ex-Evertonian didn’t play as many in all his time here as Joe did in one season at Bolton.

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save

At the start Dave if you look closely he is pulling Massengo's massive hair. That should have been the first infringement the ref should have spotted before HNM wrestled him to the ground.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It is the lack of consistency that is so bad. Various Stoke players were allowed to climb all over Chris Martin, yet when O'Dowda did the same to a Stokie to jump for a long ball, it was given as a foul. There are lots of other examples. 

Yes I felt Blackburn game, which I was at, ref was shocking in what he did not notice or let go. In the seconed half when there two bookable tackles from Blackburn which fair enough the ref played on. But then go back and book the offenders. And last nite yes Stoke players got away with so much , which I felt we dealt with well, and ref missed are disgracions as well. Just no common sense consistent refereeing.I know it goes both ways and swings and roundabouts what goes for you and against you. But is a consistent standard of refering so difficult to attain . Oh well VAR next in the championship that be interesting

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

 I think the ref didn't give a pen due to it looking 50/50.......Yep HNM had a hold of Ositgard's shirt, but it seemed reciprocal to me, as Ostigard was holding and pulling HNM too.  I am pretty sure the ref saw it as even stevens, and let it go IMHO ?

[bcfc01]

6 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

At the start Dave if you look closely he is pulling Massengo's massive hair. That should have been the first infringement the ref should have spotted before HNM wrestled him to the ground.

I think the ref spotted that their player had a hold of Massengo's shirt dragging him down and also his hair. 

Nowhere near a penalty imo.

Ref got that one spot on.

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

It was as blatant a pen as you’ll see. If that was against us, I’d be livid. 

I thought they were both at it in fairness. Right call to leave it on both accounts imo.

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

It's weird ..........Williams played over one hundred games over 3 seasons prior to joining us, with hardly an injury.  Yet since he has been with us, it has been constant injury issues.  He is 25 next month, so has plenty of time ahead of him, just hope we can keep him fit and healthy, as he is a very important player for us.  He seems to have developed an ongoing weakness with his hamstrings, hoping our medical team can sort him out?

One reason.

Andrew Roll's medical team.

Ever since he was appointed in 2018 till he left this summer, injuries under LJ, DH, and NP were measurable. Add to that his records at Watford and Arsenal.

It very well could not be his fault. But there's a definite correlation.

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I think the ref spotted that their player had a hold of Massengo's shirt dragging him down and also his hair. 

Nowhere near a penalty imo.

Ref got that one spot on.

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

[red colin]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

If you watch the HNM thing ,look back in box and there are stoke and city players pushing grabbing and pulling same as hmm so ref could have given a foul against about 5 players on each side its what goes on at every corner or free kick into box. 

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, red colin said:

If you watch the HNM thing ,look back in box and there are stoke and city players pushing grabbing and pulling same as hmm so ref could have given a foul against about 5 players on each side its what goes on at every corner or free kick into box. 

Yep. Tonnes of it goes on at every set play every week. But when a player is holding another one for about 15 yards and isn’t facing the ball, not once, it’s a penalty. 
If that was the other way round, I’m certain it would be unanimous on here that it was a pen. 

[Bazooka Joe]

If Williams didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck at all.

A fully fit Williams would be an incredible asset.

We live in hope.

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought he was very fair and realistic actually. 
Yes, they absolutely should’ve had a penalty when HNM wrestled Ostigard down on that corner. They hit the woodwork twice and had a couple of other very good chances and could easily have scored 3 or 4 on another night. 
We got pretty lucky - although we battled well - but we still kinda got away with one last night. 
 

Did you notice on there penalty appeal with Massengo their player was pulling messengos hair as they ran in the box ?.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Yep. Tonnes of it goes on at every set play every week. But when a player is holding another one for about 15 yards and isn’t facing the ball, not once, it’s a penalty. 
If that was the other way round, I’m certain it would be unanimous on here that it was a pen. 

Exactly that...crap defending by HNM..again late reacting. And reactionary. Didn't read it, reacted late and just grabbed his man. Why the hell would HNM be assigned that player too? Utter madness. It's these type of errors that cost us. If it were me...at set pieces, if we are playing one man left upfield I'd choose HNM, imo, he's crap at defending inside the box.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

 

Which is a big mistake. Look at the series of corners Stoke had. Without an outlet, we just delayed further attacks.

We had to wait until their shit inswinging corner that went into touch before getting ourselves out of jail. 

[Sir Geoff]

Back to topic. If Joe is out that gives him a good 10 days recovery before WRDC visit AG. James hopefully back but if not Massengo in for Williams could be the only change with James on the bench.

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

Cant remember...but HNM assigned to Oestagard was poorly judged imo

[ralphindevon]

Sat in the lower Lansdown it looked like HNM was preparing to come on when Nige called over Williams, Williams pointed to his hamstring and if my lip reading was right suggested it was a bit tight, to which Nige said right you’re coming off straight away.

The good news was as HNM was getting his tracksuit off, Williams happily went back to play until the ball went out of play again. 

[Red-Robbo]

Hopefully Joe will just miss one game as a precaution. It looked nowhere near as serious as his last injury.

Any news on Baker?  Is he likely to also be unavailable?

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

SKY pundits biased!!......Well i'll go to the foot of my stairs........Shock Horror...Ha!

[Harry]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Did you notice on there penalty appeal with Massengo their player was pulling messengos hair as they ran in the box ?.

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

[maxjak]

33 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Back to topic. If Joe is out that gives him a good 10 days recovery before WRDC visit AG. James hopefully back but if not Massengo in for Williams could be the only change with James on the bench.

I had to look that one up!   Who the pheck are WRDC I thought to myself?   Of course formerly known as FLDC?

[maxjak]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

What day of the frigging week would that be?  If that's a pen, then I'm Lord Lucan?  Ha!

[Harry]

57 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly that...crap defending by HNM..again late reacting. And reactionary. Didn't read it, reacted late and just grabbed his man. Why the hell would HNM be assigned that player too? Utter madness. It's these type of errors that cost us. If it were me...at set pieces, if we are playing one man left upfield I'd choose HNM, imo, he's crap at defending inside the box.

It’s something I’ve noticed all season. The way we set up from corners. 
We have the 3 best headers on the 6 yard box and then we have 3 or 4 ‘blockers’. These blockers aren’t necessarily there to challenge aerially with their opponents, just to delay their arrival, allowing one of the 3 designated ‘headers’ to have the advantage to win the ball. 
We’re not the only ones who do it. Most teams seem to be setting up in a similar fashion this season. Stoke did as well. 
From what I’ve seen of it from ourselves though, our ‘blockers’ don’t tend to be very good at blocking and ultimately end up running back with their opponent, making it appear as though they are marking him - but just end up getting in the way of our designated headers. 
 

I agree re leaving a man up. And I agree, I’d let HNM do it, because he frequently loses his man at these set pieces. 

[Harry]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

What day of the frigging week would that be?  If that's a pen, then I'm Lord Lucan?  Ha!

If that was the other way round, what would you say then Mr Lucan? 
 

The fact that HNM held onto him for another 15 yards without once looking at the ball is what makes it a blatant pen. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Harry

[maxjak]

Just now, Harry said:

If that was the other way round, what would you say then Mr Lucan? 

That it was the other way round of course?    Sorry the old bill are at the door......gotta go..........

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Those bloody invisible green shirts I reckon!

King was gonna be early December….let’s hope he’s progressing.

…and also if you bare in mind his age in those seasons….21, 22 and 23, that’s very good.  Shame our ex-Evertonian didn’t play as many in all his time here as Joe did in one season at Bolton.

Did you spot the chunk of shirt / shoulder Østigård had on Massengo?

Didnt realise Bents didn’t save Fletcher’s header onto the cross bar….from 100 yards away it looked a brilliant save

I would think that the ref thought it was each one holding and pushing the other, So how could it be given as a foul to either team? Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

That it was the other way round of course?    Sorry the old bill are at the door......gotta go..........

Is Shergar with you as well? 

[ralphindevon]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I agree. I thought the sky pundits were very biased in this case and ignored the fact that Ostigard was also fouling HNM, calling it a blatant penalty. 

I’ve just watched the Sky coverage, unbelievably biased, especially Goodman.

Also plenty of our fans I saw posting on here and social media at half time saying how we should be 4 down, what??

I don’t get it, they didn’t have the players good enough to put the ball in the back of the net, simple. We at that stage had more shots on target. I’m not saying they hadn’t played better than us but as the decent pundit, Glen Murray said at half time, we were one up and deserved it.

Some of our fans love to analyse how good our opponents are, our mistakes but ignore the good things we do.

[spudski]

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s something I’ve noticed all season. The way we set up from corners. 
We have the 3 best headers on the 6 yard box and then we have 3 or 4 ‘blockers’. These blockers aren’t necessarily there to challenge aerially with their opponents, just to delay their arrival, allowing one of the 3 designated ‘headers’ to have the advantage to win the ball. 
We’re not the only ones who do it. Most teams seem to be setting up in a similar fashion this season. Stoke did as well. 
From what I’ve seen of it from ourselves though, our ‘blockers’ don’t tend to be very good at blocking and ultimately end up running back with their opponent, making it appear as though they are marking him - but just end up getting in the way of our designated headers. 
 

I agree re leaving a man up. And I agree, I’d let HNM do it, because he frequently loses his man at these set pieces. 

I agree. Glad you noticed as well. Static headers of the ball very rarely win a header against offensive players on the move, mobile so to speak. The blockers often don't block. We see our headers of the ball static marking space. The offence lose their marker/blocker and often have free headers. Couple examples yesterday where it was easier to score for Stoke from those situations.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

We usually have every player back I think

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.  I hadn’t noticed this.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Edited November 25, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah whatever works is fine by me.

11 players defending would usually mean a better chance. I think Leicester sometimes left 2 up top in the title winning season. So many different ways, and with choosing to go zonal, man or a mix of both.

 

Some additional info I read recently:

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just gone through a random sample of defensive corners all the way back to QPR.  All 10 outfield players back, every corner….typically 4 lined across the 6 yard line….the other 6 blockers and markers.

Out of interest, have we conceded any from a corner this season?  None.  If you count O’Hare’s (Cov) from a header to the edge of the box, then it’s one.  The average goals conceded per corner is 2.25 per team.

So much as most of us old-schoolers would prefer a player left upfield, there is a strong argument in the numbers to suggest having every man back is better.

I also went through every goal conceded to see if they stemmed from a cleared corner that subsequently came back.  There were none.

It bucks our traditional thinking undoubtedly, but maybe we are the ones who need to change???

(For info, last season the average across the whole of the season was 6.67 goals conceded from corners per team….so about 3 times the average so far).  If our new way of defending saves us 3 / 4 goals per season, that’s worth doing)

Interesting, it always winds me up that we have everyone back, as the ball is cleared and immediately puts you back under pressure and no chance of a breakaway goal. So good to know I need to change my view point.

[Davefevs]

Just now, sh1t_ref_again said:

Interesting, it always winds me up that we have everyone back, as the ball is cleared and immediately puts you back under pressure and no chance of a breakaway goal. So good to know I need to change my view point.

Me too.  I like defenders on the post….the stats tell me I’m wrong.  The mind plays tricks….the bit above about leaving players offside is a very good point.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I didn’t see Ostigard pull hair. What I saw was HNM grappling and then Ostigard trying to release himself, which he did by trying to get his left arm over the top of HNm’s head. 
You’ll see it quite clearly broken down in the pics below. 
Look carefully at Ostigard’s left arm. You’ll see clearly that he’s trying to get it over the head, not touching his hair at all. 
It’s a penalty every day of the week. 
 

The initial hairpull might be happening in frame one and two there but following that it was very clear.

Sky froze it just as Massengo had his hair tugged by both the right and left hand of Ostigard and how you expect Massengo to watch the ball when his head is being held, I don't know!

 

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

The initial hairpull might be happening in frame one and two there but following that it was very clear.

Sky froze it just as Massengo had his hair tugged by both the right and left hand of Ostigard and how you expect Massengo to watch the ball when his head is being held, I don't know!

 

He shouldn’t have got himself in that position (HNM). 
I agree that there was an element of a hair pull later in the grapple, but the grapple was instigated by HNM and LO was trying to get away, the fact HNM didn’t let go meant that LO ended up wrestling back with him and the hair pull occurred. 
 

As I say, end of the day, if that was the other way round, I’m confident everyone on here would be screaming for a penalty. 

[Mike Stone]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Michael O'Neil's post game comments were massively disrespectful to us and incredibly one-eyed. Apparently, they "should have had a penalty". I suppose he didn't notice the handball in their box in the first half?

That guy has gone right down in my estimation.

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

[mozo]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

He shouldn’t have got himself in that position (HNM). 
I agree that there was an element of a hair pull later in the grapple, but the grapple was instigated by HNM and LO was trying to get away, the fact HNM didn’t let go meant that LO ended up wrestling back with him and the hair pull occurred. 
 

As I say, end of the day, if that was the other way round, I’m confident everyone on here would be screaming for a penalty. 

How dare you lay any blame at la porte of le petit Prince au cheveux magnifique?!

[Red-Robbo]

9 minutes ago, Mike Stone said:

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

 

Well I disagree and as the ref did too, you and Michael O'Neil can go take a running one... 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

How dare you lay any blame at la porte of le petit Prince au cheveux magnifique?!

You mean le chérie intouchable de Villepinte? 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Mike Stone said:

Not sure what game you were watching Red-Robbo  but I thought he had it spot on tbh

Ours was never a penalty as it shot up off his foot and they should of had one when Han Noah went all in wrestling with their bloke.

Also we were fortunate to keep 11 on the pitch after a couple of reckless challenges. 

Quite an honest view from O'Neil I thought.

Their player, even though it comes off of his boot, prevents a cross coming in. His hand was well away from his body and IMO it could easily have been a Pen.

I've watched it back, from where I was he won the ball, from first couple of views, he wins the ball. Not until I saw the other angle you can see he was very lucky to stay on. I've screen shotted because I can't be arsed to clip the video, but you can see while he might get a bit of the ball, the follow through could have been nasty.