Potential Windfall

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

The add ons , I so hate that... would seem to be worth more to us. Games played must be one element, so maybe we have already had some extra fee for him. International call up is a likely other trigger. The Cherries do not need to sell either, so it would be a big fee. £25m might entice them, but they are looking at promotion, so why sell.  

Very much suspect it’s games and caps related.

In Wells’s case I believe some of the add-ons were promotion related….so we’ve not had to shell-out on those.

Brownhill’s might’ve been “avoid relegation” add-on.  I don’t know that level of detail.  In fairness I don’t know any of the detail 100% sure, but happy with what I have in my spreadsheets

Edited December 8, 2021 by Davefevs

[Waconda]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Very much suspect it’s games and caps related.

In Wells’s case I believe some of the add-ons were promotion related….so we’ve not had to shell-out on those.

Brownhill’s might’ve been “avoid relegation” add-on.  I don’t know that level of detail.

Think you are correct on Wells.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

I know some sell on fees are not just based on profit, but on any value of a future fee. There are so many permutations used. In this case, the add ons were worth half of the fee, so there must have been some easy triggers in that. Brownhill might be the other one to watch . 

Yes, with Kodjia there was talk about whether it was a 40% profit or 20% of the fee….but I think that was Angers fans getting excited, or maybe stuff getting lost in translation.

Webster, I heard stories that Ipswich had only put a 10% profit in.

Adam Armstrong’s transfer had a 40% profit sell on in it….so Z Newcastle did alright out of his recent £15m move (£10m @ 40%).

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I have Kelly down at £15m plus £6m of add-ons plus a sell-on, from a very credible source.

Yes, that's correct. Total deal was worth up to £21m. 

[Simon bristol]

5 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Ashtons fault.

To be fair, pretty much every player we have sold since cole left had had a sell on clause

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, that's correct. Total deal was worth up to £21m. 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, The Batman said:

Newcastle will be great for everyone. Absolute cash cow to milk.

Have a player is worth £10 million?? charge Newcastle £15 million if they get in touch. Get a huge mark up if they come calling as everyone knows they have the money. 

Championship players will want to go there. Premier league players I'm not so sure because its a relegation battle from the off. 

Yep...Newcastle will be great for everyone......except maybe defenders of human, women's and minority rights, Mr Khashoggi's widow, repression and freedom?  But Hey!   Who cares where the moneys coming from, as long as theyr'e a Saudi cash cow.?                

Edited December 8, 2021 by maxjak

[The Batman]

12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep...Newcastle will be great for everyone......except maybe defenders of human, women's and minority rights, Mr Khashoggi's widow, repression and freedom?  But Hey!   Who cares where the moneys coming from, as long as theyr'e a Saudi cash cow.?                

Forgive me, didn't write it fully. I meant it from a financial prospective from clubs who can milk Newcastle for all its worth because they know they have so much cash. 

You're absolutely right regarding all you've noted though. The sheer hypocrisy for them to be even allowed to own a club is a joke. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Forgive me, didn't write it fully. I meant it from a financial prospective from clubs who can milk Newcastle for all its worth because they know they have so much cash. 

You're absolutely right regarding all you've noted though. The sheer hypocrisy for them to be even allowed to own a club is a joke. 

Meanwhile..... ordering presents and football kits from China and happily filling the car with petrol 1/3 of which comes from the likes of Saudi, Russia, Libya, Algeria and Nigeria all with similar unblemished human rights records.

Up the Chelski.

[Simon bristol]

12 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Meanwhile..... ordering presents and football kits from China and happily filling the car with petrol 1/3 of which comes from the likes of Saudi, Russia, Libya, Algeria and Nigeria all with similar unblemished human rights records.

Up the Chelski.

I like the visit rwanda sponsoring arsenal for 20 million a year because their president is an arsenal fan, while receiving 30 million in uk aid story!

[maxjak]

If you analyse around the world...........there is a massive league table of hypocrisy, deceit and corruption.   It is just a case of which corporation or country is at present the worst abuser?   Humans are without a doubt the most selfish, self serving, blinkered creatures walking the earth, with a few notable exceptions?   Still never mind eh?....as   Xmas is just round the corner, it gives us all a chance to worship at the altar of the great god Amazon?.....Whoops!!,  sorry I of course mean "The Lord".................Thank God for Religion, as you won't find any corruption there?                

[Bristol Oil Services]

36 minutes ago, maxjak said:

If you analyse around the world...........there is a massive league table of hypocrisy, deceit and corruption.   It is just a case of which corporation or country is at present the worst abuser?   Humans are without a doubt the most selfish, self serving, blinkered creatures walking the earth, with a few notable exceptions?   Still never mind eh?....as   Xmas is just round the corner, it gives us all a chance to worship at the altar of the great god Amazon?.....Whoops!!,  sorry I of course mean "The Lord".................Thank God for Religion, as you won't find any corruption there?                

Most humans are selfish and altruistic. And less blinkered than, say, most reptiles. And moles. And bats. And plankton. And mollusca. And birds of prey (so bloody blinkered, and selfish, birds of prey. Especially, my sparrowhawk - no concern for any other one or thing but herself. Unbelievable).

Stop consuming the news and get off social this and twitter that. Step outside, and smile at yer (blinkered, selfish) neighbour. Unless he's g4s

[Mad Cyril]

6 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

To be fair, pretty much every player we have sold since cole left had had a sell on clause

We might have been better off negotiating refund clauses on players we buy, not sell.

"If we turn this promising player to turd within 12 months, we get 20% of the fee back..."

We would be loaded!

[REDOXO]

8 hours ago, billywedlock said:

The add ons , I so hate that... would seem to be worth more to us. Games played must be one element, so maybe we have already had some extra fee for him. International call up is a likely other trigger. The Cherries do not need to sell either, so it would be a big fee. £25m might entice them, but they are looking at promotion, so why sell.  

The issue becomes the player. If he wants to go and the interest is real then it becomes hard to keep a player who would rather be somewhere else. Performance and value can slip quickly. 

[pride of the west]

Assuming Newcastle were interested at 25 mil which is the point any sell on becomes worthwhile in the grand scheme of things, would we perhaps be better off if he stays at Bournemouth for the time being with any other potential add ons we may have put in place that would become null and void if he moves?

Just putting it out there. 

Say a sell on would net us 2mil now. What if for instance we have money on 75 appearances and then 100 appearances? Plus a big bonus should he get an England cap? Its only going to take a good start next year in the prem and maybe an injury or two and southgate will be looking. He's already well on the radar in that regard. I dont think it's beyond the realms of possibility that staying put and hitting targets would net us more. 

[Davefevs]

I’ve no idea what happens to add-ons when a player transfers again.  I’d imagine they are no longer applicable, but I can’t find anything that 100% confirms it.  Sell-ons we know continue until a player stops being sold for a profit, or no sell-on is agreed in a future transfer.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 08/12/2021 at 11:12, The Bard said:

He's not the sort of player they need right now.  Much better suited going for experienced Premiership types and paying them shedloads.  Dunk, Webster, Mings, Tarkowski, Coady, Mee, Bednarek.  1 of those plus maybe a Kelly type.  They also need a midfielder of the ilk of Ward-Prowse.  Get 2 leaders in now as well as 2 or 3 proven players where needed.  Best off raiding their immediate rivals as they need to first overtake the likes of Southampton, Leeds and Palace.

Better add Nathan Baker to that list then - he’s made more premier league appearances than Webster

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Far from an expert, but I have discussed deals of this nature with an agent in the past. It really depends on the contract of course . There are some where the adds on become permanent in the event of a sale, meaning that in this case the £6M becomes due on sale. Others where the percentage sell on is varied depending on the status of the add ons. So for example if the add ons have been paid there is an x percentage of profit, or y percentage in the event the player moves early. As ever there are so many variables. There is quite a lot of sophistication , though if in the case of Kelly , 30% of the fee was variable, you would have to think that if he is sold on, we would have got close to that original fee requested. The issue then, is that for Bournemouth, any sale is pretty pointless as their profit will be minimal unless it is a fee nearer to £30M. They have him on a long contract and are going to be in the Prem next year. Kelly may have his ideas of course, Newcastle are a huge club and Howe is his man. You can never tell. Looking from the outside, he is probably best staying where he is, getting promoted, performing in the Prem and getting a renewed Liverpool interest for example. 

From our point of view it is unknown how much, if any of the add ons we have had and when. But we could do with a few million right now !!! Brownhill could yet be a surprise move in January too. Come on come we need these moves to happen !

Ta for the insight.

[Simon bristol]

15 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

We might have been better off negotiating refund clauses on players we buy, not sell.

"If we turn this promising player to turd within 12 months, we get 20% of the fee back..."

We would be loaded!

Amen! With Nakhi wells we should get more back, some type of admin fee

[Davefevs]

56 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

The lawyers are quite good at these things these days. Of course the variables are so huge it is impossible as fans to have a clue about what could be due. Impossible withour reading a contract. Pretty much like players wages too. It is quite worth listening to the BBC interview with Micah Richards about how he went from £5k a week to £50k as a ... teenager . 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/59527230

I like Micah Richards, especially those top ten programmes.  Great watch!

Re add-ons, been reading up on some previous tribunal decisions, here’s one

AARON CRESWELL

Aaron Creswell had made 70 or so league appearances for Tranmere Rovers when, aged 21, he rejected a new long term contract offer.  He signed for the Championship club Ipswich Town on a three year contract.

The PFCC decided that Ipswich Town should pay Tranmere Rovers an initial compensation fee of £240,000.

An additional £45,000 was ordered in respect of the player making 15, 30, 45 and 60 appearances for Ipswich Town. - appearances at 15 game increments, not stuff like 100, gives more likelihood of some of them being achieved.

 An additional £100,000 was ordered should Ipswich Town achieve promotion to the Premier League in the next 3 seasons. - this appears to be linked to club, regardless of whether player still there.

Tranmere Rovers are to receive 20% of any profit made by Ipswich Town in selling the player to another club at any point in the future.

[REDOXO]

16 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Always. But Newcastle is in a mess, the Cherries will go up, he is on a long term contract and a Bristol boy. Would need lots of money to player and club to make it happen. But money talks. I always thought Kelly would end up at one of the top clubs , next year in the Prem with Bournemouth and it will happen methinks. He looks a great, wonderful talent and has got rid of the errors. 

I largely agree. However it would seem tomeNewcastle will be on an Xmas shopping spree with their new found oil billions. The Saudi’s did not take over to watch them get relegated. Guess we will see. 

[E.G.Red]

On 08/12/2021 at 08:23, HappyClapper said:

The Mirror are reporting that Lloyd Kelly is a target for Newcastle in January. I’m assuming we have a sell on clause, so would be worth a few million if true.

But also a target for Liverpool (who might not offer as much as Newcastle)

[Red Army 75]

https://the72.co.uk/258868/west-ham-join-race-to-sign-bournemouths-lloyd-kelly/amp/
 

Article in Telegraph as well 

[Rebounder]

On 09/12/2021 at 12:12, billywedlock said:

The lawyers are quite good at these things these days. Of course the variables are so huge it is impossible as fans to have a clue about what could be due. Impossible withour reading a contract. Pretty much like players wages too. It is quite worth listening to the BBC interview with Micah Richards about how he went from £5k a week to £50k as a ... teenager . 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/59527230

That's just madness isn't it? I'd struggle to keep a check on reality if I came into 50k a week now. If I was 18 and they were paying it to me every week I'm not sure I'd be here. Even 5k a week is an astonishing amount of money even in a short career. I like Richards too and he was really good at that age. Bit sad to hear he's in property, but appreciate its the done thing and there's no context there. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Rebounder

[maxjak]

It is starting to appear that Lloyd Kelly is one of the most desired acquistions of the coming window...with a whole host of top clubs hoping to sign him?  i can see him as a future England player, so the fee, and our  percentage could end up as very useful? 

[maxjak]

23 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Hard to see them selling Kelly when they need to get to the Prem this season. Even a silly offer leaves them stuck for a replacement. They paid a big fee so it would need a crazy number. 

Around 30 mill will be hard to turn down?  IMHO.

[CyderInACan]

23 hours ago, Rebounder said:

That's just madness isn't it? I'd struggle to keep a check on reality if I came into 50k a week now. If I was 18 and they were paying it to me every week I'm not sure I'd be here. Even 5k a week is an astonishing amount of money even in a short career. I like Richards too and he was really good at that age. Bit sad to hear he's in property, but appreciate its the done thing and there's no context there. 

What is wrong with being in property? 

[redsquirrel]

4 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Let's hope so . A few million would be a huge help right now. If it is West Ham then Kelly might want it too.

wouldnt have thought a london club would be too desirable at the moment,bournemouth is  quite a nice place to live and Kelly has a very good chance of being back in the prem next season. could see him hanging on for 6 months

[sh1t_ref_again]

12 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

wouldnt have thought a london club would be too desirable at the moment,bournemouth is  quite a nice place to live and Kelly has a very good chance of being back in the prem next season. could see him hanging on for 6 months

So you reckon a player is likely to turn down multiplying his salary many times over (he would have been signed on a relative low wage for the prem), plus the recognition and likely affect on his career playing for a prem mid to top club rather than a yo - yo one, as Bournemouth is a nice place

[Sweeneys Penalties]

wonder if the Newcastle radar is twitching? Theyve a few bob to spare