Goals at Blackpool

[sh1t_ref_again]

Watching back the replay of the goals

1st

Pring gets out jumped, to put ball into box

ODowda defends by heading ball away to try and run out or give room for a clearance

Klose poor dinked clearance straight to Blackpool player

Back post ball Dasilva easily out jumped to put ball back across goal

Kalas, follows ball and runs towards Dasilva, caught in no mans land and leaving man unmarked for easy tap in, when ball goes across goal

Max, no attempt to intercept ball played in within 6 yard box and out of position to save tap in.

So I know OTIB likes to have someone to blame, I know COD is the popular scapegoat when Vyner is not on the pitch, but not really at fault for the goal, klose poor clearance, maybe slightly more so, but we still had time to defend. Think you have to look at Max, Kalas or Jay, Jay is just too small to be a defender, therefore Kalas cannot trust that he will compete for the ball, so has to try and cover, therefore leaving his man unmarked. Maybe Max has to try and claim or punch, but for me the problem is having JD covering the back post against someone much taller.

2nd

Can only look at Kalas hopelessly outjumped, he seems to have a real problem jumping when he cant take a run up, gets out jumped from a standing start a lot.

3rd

Long ball forward to man to Fowler totally unmarked, Pring get back and covers, but allows him to turn on his stronger foot. Max gambles and dives the wrong way, think Pring has to do better.

[Curr Avon]

5 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Watching back the replay of the goals

1st

Pring gets out jumped, to put ball into box

ODowda defends by heading ball away to try and run out or give room for a clearance

Klose poor dinked clearance straight to Blackpool player

Back post ball Dasilva easily out jumped to put ball back across goal

Kalas, follows ball and runs towards Dasilva, caught in no mans land and leaving man unmarked for easy tap in, when ball goes across goal

Max, no attempt to intercept ball played in within 6 yard box and out of position to save tap in.

So I know OTIB likes to have someone to blame, I know COD is the popular scapegoat when Vyner is not on the pitch, but not really at fault for the goal, klose poor clearance, maybe slightly more so, but we still had time to defend. Think you have to look at Max, Kalas or Jay, Jay is just too small to be a defender, therefore Kalas cannot trust that he will compete for the ball, so has to try and cover, therefore leaving his man unmarked. Maybe Max has to try and claim or punch, but for me the problem is having JD covering the back post against someone much taller.

2nd

Can only look at Kalas hopelessly outjumped, he seems to have a real problem jumping when he cant take a run up, gets out jumped from a standing start a lot.

3rd

Long ball forward to man to Fowler totally unmarked, Pring get back and covers, but allows him to turn on his stronger foot. Max gambles and dives the wrong way, think Pring has to do better.

You could have saved a lot of time by just posting this gif...

[Red-Robbo]

How dare you not follow established Otib practice of blaming every goal on one scapegoat, but instead mention that a number of people were involved!

I'm going to depart from Otib "usual practice" as well, by adding in the attacking players who didn't score or keep the ball in the  Blackpool half and the midfielders who allowed the downfield runs thus exposing the defenders we love to criticise. 

[Curr Avon]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

How dare you not follow established Otib practice of blaming every goal on one scapegoat, but instead mention that a number of people were involved!

I'm going to depart from Otib "usual practice" as well, by adding in the attacking players who didn't score or keep the ball in the  Blackpool half and the midfielders who allowed the downfield runs thus exposing the defenders we love to criticise. 

Exactly. Better to just say, cuh, it was the usual suspects, we know who you are. OTIB REMEMBERS.

[1960maaan]

Just about every single Goal is preventable.
Almost every Goal has a mistake by the defending team, or a phase where they could have done better.

First goal. 
I'd say a genuine CB might be in a better position, Pring seems to be waiting for the ball to head it away. I think if Baker or Atkinson are there, they make it harder for the Blackpool player to head it as well as competing properly.
COD could nod it out for a Corner, but after he try to control it, it looks like he pulls out so as not to risk a Pen. We get away with it.
Klose should be putting his foot through the ball, or at least finding touch so we can regroup.
The cross is like a quick switch in play. 5 players drawn to the ball, only Kalas in the centre and their man has pulled out onto Jay. Good attacking play. Because Kalas does follow the ball it leave the scorer alone.

My feeling is just poor defending from the team, no one takes charge. As for Max, it's a high ball and he was covering his front Post. He would have to pick up the flight, decide he can make it and win the challenge in a split second. He has to be sure, he wasn't, and I don't think that's an area he should be rushing out to where the only way to win it is at the spot the guy heads it. He had no chance of getting there first IMO.

2ND Goal.
I think, and this is probably one for the experts, Kalas & Klose are the wrong way round. If the ball goes near/middle the flight has to be a little lower and Kalas could challenge . I would have thought Klose should have been challenging for the deep cross. As it is Klose doesn't seem to have anyone. Good header back across OLeary , possibly could do better but that may be harsh.
Again, OLeary isn't coming for that, I doubt many would. 

3RD Goal.

That's horrible, weak and half hearted in their half. I put some of it down to 2-0 and chasing the game a little.
From the time they win the ball and hit that raking pass we're in trouble. Great first touch by the lad, stands Pring up and it's the reason playing full balls and wingers on the wrong sides became popular. Obvious he wants to come on his left foot, but it's also Pring's weaker side. We score that and you say well done. Age old problem where we are vulnerable when we have a throw in. Weimann and Williams just too weak and that one long ball takes everyone out of the game, even Pring is playing catch up.

It may seem counter intuitive , but I wonder if going to a back four might focus our 2 CB's more. As it is we are weak and reactive in our own area. We could really do with Baker at the moment, sadly I don't see him back at all. I think we would be stronger with Atkinson, having Klose along side him talking could help massively . 

The only thing I can conclude, it ain't an easy fix and it ain't one players fault.

 

[Supersonic Robin]

The first goal is quite a collectors item! Not very often you get every member of a back 6 making an error (or semi-error) in conceding a goal!

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Just about every single Goal is preventable.
Almost every Goal has a mistake by the defending team, or a phase where they could have done better.

First goal. 
I'd say a genuine CB might be in a better position, Pring seems to be waiting for the ball to head it away. I think if Baker or Atkinson are there, they make it harder for the Blackpool player to head it as well as competing properly.
COD could nod it out for a Corner, but after he try to control it, it looks like he pulls out so as not to risk a Pen. We get away with it.
Klose should be putting his foot through the ball, or at least finding touch so we can regroup.
The cross is like a quick switch in play. 5 players drawn to the ball, only Kalas in the centre and their man has pulled out onto Jay. Good attacking play. Because Kalas does follow the ball it leave the scorer alone.

My feeling is just poor defending from the team, no one takes charge. As for Max, it's a high ball and he was covering his front Post. He would have to pick up the flight, decide he can make it and win the challenge in a split second. He has to be sure, he wasn't, and I don't think that's an area he should be rushing out to where the only way to win it is at the spot the guy heads it. He had no chance of getting there first IMO.

2ND Goal.
I think, and this is probably one for the experts, Kalas & Klose are the wrong way round. If the ball goes near/middle the flight has to be a little lower and Kalas could challenge . I would have thought Klose should have been challenging for the deep cross. As it is Klose doesn't seem to have anyone. Good header back across OLeary , possibly could do better but that may be harsh.
Again, OLeary isn't coming for that, I doubt many would. 

3RD Goal.

That's horrible, weak and half hearted in their half. I put some of it down to 2-0 and chasing the game a little.
From the time they win the ball and hit that raking pass we're in trouble. Great first touch by the lad, stands Pring up and it's the reason playing full balls and wingers on the wrong sides became popular. Obvious he wants to come on his left foot, but it's also Pring's weaker side. We score that and you say well done. Age old problem where we are vulnerable when we have a throw in. Weimann and Williams just too weak and that one long ball takes everyone out of the game, even Pring is playing catch up.

It may seem counter intuitive , but I wonder if going to a back four might focus our 2 CB's more. As it is we are weak and reactive in our own area. We could really do with Baker at the moment, sadly I don't see him back at all. I think we would be stronger with Atkinson, having Klose along side him talking could help massively . 

The only thing I can conclude, it ain't an easy fix and it ain't one players fault.

 

Don't disagree about Max, its a difficult one as to if he should come and claim the 1st one (looks more difficult from that picture than the other view) and would have plenty on here ready to attack if he comes and misses it. Although the ball is played in from a long way out and is a looping ball, so time to react and in particular as it going towards our smallest player on the pitch to defend. 

Think Kalas has a mare for the 1st and 2nd, albeit the 1st trying to atone for a selection problem where you have someone to small to defend the back post, but then caught in no mans land doing nothing but watching.

[Davefevs]

Whilst watching the game I didn’t feel we handled the fact that they targeted Pring (not Dasilva) aerially.

We can see a concentration of the Tangerine’s striker aerial battles in Pring’s area.

Here are a couple of examples of our positions at those aerial situations.

Pic1

pic2

Within out 3412 set up I don’t think we necessarily got it wrong, but with both Yates and Madine playing lopsided, I wondered how we’d cope….or on the flipside, how we might exploit their imbalance.

In the first pic (8th minute), I think Blackpool are really happy to keep it condense our Left side.  They are happy to play direct and then squeeze and press to try and win loose balls.  It certainly meant Alex Scott and Massengo never got any time on the ball in this type of open play.  Massengo did get on the ball when we played it out from the back, but it was deep and Blackpool content as it caused them no damage.  It’s not like nobody is marking, just meant we ended up being dictated to.

In the second pic, just after 3-0, now the game and pitch is wide open.  But this time we have Kalas and Klose not marking (I’m happy for one to sweep but not both), but Williams and Scott dragged into the condensed space.  It is why we get “strung out”.  There is a huge gap.  For me Klose comes across to be an option to attack the ball, Kalas sweeps, and one of Scott or Williams is free to pick up any header we won.

Certainly in pic 2, if we had a back 4, Klose and Kalas together with Pring can be the markers and Dasilva tucks in as the cover.  It frees Williams AND Scott to pick up loose balls….and we have a better shape both defensively and to transition into.

Im interested to see how we make those things work on Wednesday.

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't disagree about Max, its a difficult one as to if he should come and claim the 1st one (looks more difficult from that picture than the other view) and would have plenty on here ready to attack if he comes and misses it. Although the ball is played in from a long way out and is a looping ball, so time to react and in particular as it going towards our smallest player on the pitch to defend. 

Think Kalas has a mare for the 1st and 2nd, albeit the 1st trying to atone for a selection problem where you have someone to small to defend the back post, but then caught in no mans land doing nothing but watching.

What I didn't take into account, was the weather, or more accurately the wind. If it's a strong or swirling wind, it's easy to misjudge a cross, and both the crosses are looping ones can get taken by the wind. Goalkeeping, thankless task at times.

 

[ashton_fan]

Having watched Boreham Wood win at Bournemouth, their defence didn't have any holes in it, it was completeley solid and Bournemouth struggled to find a way through until the last 15 minutes when some of their players started tiring and Bournemouth brought on their better players. Our players must have more ability than Boreham's so surely it's just a coaching issue? Also look at Watford, first clean sheet in ages with Roy Hodgson in charge who drills defenders to death in training. Has our defence got worse since Keith Downing left as he used to be our defensive coach? Perhaps we need another defensive coach to get them organised?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

Having watched Boreham Wood win at Bournemouth, their defence didn't have any holes in it, it was completeley solid and Bournemouth struggled to find a way through until the last 15 minutes when some of their players started tiring and Bournemouth brought on their better players. Our players must have more ability than Boreham's so surely it's just a coaching issue? Also look at Watford, first clean sheet in ages with Roy Hodgson in charge who drills defenders to death in training. Has our defence got worse since Keith Downing left as he used to be our defensive coach? Perhaps we need another defensive coach to get them organised?

Out of interest, why does that lead to it have to be a coaching issue?  My view is that you can coach as much as you like but if you make individual errors, the best coaching in the world makes little difference.

FWIW we defended pretty well for the vast majority of the Preston game.  So, being facetious () was it good coaching for that game?

Also, Downing wasn’t the defensive coach, they (Simmo and him) had no specific roles per se.  In fact in fairness to Keith, we never saw a lot of Simmo in the training ground videos.  He left on 27th Oct.  We did keep two of our three clean sheets in the games after he left.

But totally your point, we are not defending well, we are exposing players to individual errors.  Our best fit defender (Kalas) had a poor game, that doesn’t help.

I love how Massengo and Scott have played in the 2 CM roles, they tackle, press, hassle (through energy), etc…but they don’t screen our CBs.  I don’t think Matty James is the greatest screen either, in fact we’ve not had a good one since Pack left.

I think there is an imbalance between defence and attack.  I don’t like the 3412 (5212) per se.  I’d rather the 3 in midfield were actually a 3, rather than a 2 and a 1, if that makes sense…certainly away.  I think we need a bit more pragmatism in our approach.  We’ve shown we can now hold onto the ball much better, so we don’t need to go quite so gung-ho.

We are getting by with what we’ve got.  “We are where we are”, trying to make do without spending money.  It’s not perfect, Nige has got some things wrong…I’m sure he knows that.  

[Mr Chappers]

No idea why Max gets any blame for first goal, had he rushed out, chance of getting ball was low, and he’d be completely out of the frame if the ball gets to the forwards.

Gone now, let’s just look forward to Wednesday and hope for better, main aim should be not to lose.