If dreams come true, this summer .....

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

aka a mistake

And if you make a mistake (I assume he didn't know at the time that Tanner was going to come available) you rectify it not compound it (tell that to one or two of our defenders). Simpson will be gone at the end of the season and I would imagine anyone else out of contract and not already tied up will be too. I would also bet money that there will be at least one desperate club somewhere who will take Wells off of us because in the right side he will score enough goals to justify the outlay. Palmer is the difficult one because he earns shedloads of cash and doesn't affect 9 in 10 matches. Another word for it is crap given the ability he has. Who will pay £20K per week for him or even half of that? The squad will start to take more shape next season BUT the demolition job won't be complete, as hard as that is for some to understand, because as I said earlier in the week we still have players here who are fleecing us for the best money they will ever earn in their professional football careers and won't be in a rush to go anywhere (we know who they are, the only route is down for a few of them and they know it every bit as much as we do).

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Cheap and available punt at the time - with an attitude known by the manager and brought in for experience to what was a young side. Perhaps that experience is being passed onto the younger players behind the scenes either in the U23s or in training.

Granted that the legs have gone now, so unlikely to get another start in the Championship, but perhaps not quite the total mistake you dismiss it as.

Even if it is a mistake, in hindsight, the thinking prior to hindsight was understandable. If he knew Tanner was available and coming in so quickly I very much doubt that Simpson would have got a year.

[Mad Cyril]

So best case scenario an £8m income top up for the summer eh??

I bet Watford, Norwich and Burnley will be worried their £143m parachute payment won't be enough to compete with us next season....

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Cheap and available punt at the time - with an attitude known by the manager and brought in for experience to what was a young side. Perhaps that experience is being passed onto the younger players behind the scenes either in the U23s or in training.

Granted that the legs have gone now, so unlikely to get another start in the Championship, but perhaps not quite the total mistake you dismiss it as.

 

He's played seven and a half not-very-good games for us in 11 months now, so however small his salary is, it is definitely a mistake.

The idea that he somehow imparts experience on to younger players in some sort of osmosis, by being occasionally there at the training ground, is likely wishful thinking I'm afraid.

Let's hope he doesn't give them advice on how to treat a woman...

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Even if it is a mistake, in hindsight, the thinking prior to hindsight was understandable. If he knew Tanner was available and coming in so quickly I very much doubt that Simpson would have got a year.

Yep, plus people forget that NP released Hunt (probably on circa £12k) & initially tried to replace him with a player who was already on the wage bill (Vyner) & Simpson, who as I have posted before, had been without a club for nearly a year, so will be on possibly a third of that. When it was clear Vyner was struggling at RB & Pearson possibly had doubts about Simpson, he brought in Tanner, who I expect will be very near the bottom of our wage structure.

It hasn’t worked, but unlike these types of signings in the past, we haven’t left ourselves with him sitting on a 2, 3 year or even longer contract.

Edited February 15, 2022 by GrahamC

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It hasn’t worked, but unlike these types of signings in the past, we haven’t left ourselves with him sitting on a 2, 3 year or even longer contract.

That is the key takeaway.

And unfortunately the previous regime did exactly that.  And that is what is holding us back, and what will continue to hold us back, probably until the next Jan window, unless we miraculously move a few on this summer.

[Numero Uno]

29 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

He's played seven and a half not-very-good games for us in 11 months now, so however small his salary is, it is definitely a mistake.

The idea that he somehow imparts experience on to younger players in some sort of osmosis, by being occasionally there at the training ground, is likely wishful thinking I'm afraid.

Let's hope he doesn't give them advice on how to treat a woman...

Yep, a mistake but a relatively low cost one that is easily put right. If you want to know what a proper mistake is take a look in the direction of KP45.................and to a smaller degree a few other players who we might struggle to move on in the summer (or have to pay up a wedge on their remaining contract term to move them on) because they know that BCFC is their last hurrah in terms of earning Championship money. KP45 aside we have players in our squad probably on £6-£8K and knowing their next contract will be no more than half of that at some League 1 outfit........if they are lucky. If we were in that position what would we do?

[Numero Uno]

42 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

So best case scenario an £8m income top up for the summer eh??

I bet Watford, Norwich and Burnley will be worried their £143m parachute payment won't be enough to compete with us next season....

Financially there is a better case scenario but it weakens the squad.

[bexhill reds]

35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

He's played seven and a half not-very-good games for us in 11 months now, so however small his salary is, it is definitely a mistake.

The idea that he somehow imparts experience on to younger players in some sort of osmosis, by being occasionally there at the training ground, is likely wishful thinking I'm afraid.

Let's hope he doesn't give them advice on how to treat a woman...

Your last line is clearly the stick by which some judge him and I suspect there are some that will never see past that even if he scored a in the 90th minute of the Championship play-off final to send us into the Prem. There are group of fans who thought he should never have been signed because of his personal history, and is certainly not relevant to the comment I made.

I don't think we are in a position to appreciate what he might or might not bring to the club behind the scenes and I don't think we should dismiss it, although accept a player is not signed for what they might do in training, certainly not in a cash strapped club like ours. Like I said, a cheap and available punt who's qualities were known by the manager when he first came on board, the club has moved on since then and I don't think it would would sign Simpson as a free agent now, older free agent signings come with risk, they are free agents for a reason.

[Waconda]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Someone once said the only person that ever lived that didn’t make a mistake got crucified.

You realise that is a fairy story right ?

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You realise that is a fairy story right ?

If you knew me you’d know there are few people on the planet who are less religious than me.

I was just making a much broader point, in that every manager everywhere signs players & they don’t work out.

In the scheme of things a low wage, one year contract isn’t another £2m fee, three year contract Gustav Engvall or going much further back, £425k Steve Jones, who we then spend years trying to shift.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Your last line is clearly the stick by which some judge him and I suspect there are some that will never see past that even if he scored a in the 90th minute of the Championship play-off final to send us into the Prem. There are group of fans who thought he should never have been signed because of his personal history, and is certainly not relevant to the comment I made.

I don't think we are in a position to appreciate what he might or might not bring to the club behind the scenes and I don't think we should dismiss it, although accept a player is not signed for what they might do in training, certainly not in a cash strapped club like ours. Like I said, a cheap and available punt who's qualities were known by the manager when he first came on board, the club has moved on since then and I don't think it would would sign Simpson as a free agent now, older free agent signings come with risk, they are free agents for a reason.

 

I didn't want him here for that reason, but his failure to contribute on the pitch is why I'm saying it was a total mistake.

I think if we're saying sign clapped out footballers just because they can pass some tips on to younger players, we could probably have got one even cheaper than Danny.  Other non-playing players, Jody Morris, Michael Bridges etc, never got excused by saying "they are here to share their experiences with the younger players" but it seems Simpson is credited with that and I can only think it's because of the faith people have in Pearson. They don't want to criticise him 

I have faith in Pearson as well, but I do think there's nothing else you can say about Simpson than to write it off as an error of judgement. Due diligence wasn't exactly done on his fitness level when he was brought here. 

Luckily, it's the only blot so far on Pearson's recruitment copy book. 

[Waconda]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

If you knew me you’d know there are few people on the planet who are less religious than me.

I was just making a much broader point, in that every manager everywhere signs players & they don’t work out.

In the scheme of things a low wage, one year contract isn’t another £2m fee, three year contract Gustav Engvall or going much further back, £425k Steve Jones, who we then spend years trying to shift.

I get your point,  just giving an example that every manager makes transfer mistakes including even NP.

[Padlad]

Won't we need this cash just to avoid a points deduction? Cant see us spending it.

[Red-Robbo]

12 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I've seen it argued on here that King and James have both been labelled as flops thus far this season, can understand King as similar to Simpson mind there, body not able to cash those cheques. 

James stuff is a bit odd though. 

I've seen elsewhere on here and to some extent agree, Danny Simpson can easily by some be placed amongst our worst signings of all time, im not going to argue against them on that point either 

Regards the windfall stuff I'm pretty much alone in thinking we're going to be ok anyway and that based on that windfall would be nice but not pivotal. 

Furthermore with 2 year contracts, 18 months contracts and a whole host of Covid renewals coming to an end i suspect that there is going to be a much larger pool of quality players available for nowt and lower wages this summer.

As we've cut costs already then I m expecting a busy, note not expensive summer irrespective 

 

I wouldn't put King in anywhere near the same category as Simpson. King is still a useful squad player and although maybe not an automatic starter or a three-games-a-week guy, would still make your bench.

Moreover, as a lifelong City fan who was thrilled to come here, he's more likely to be the inspiring, voice of experience that our young players need.

James is very much missed from the MF. We have one player currently with any defensive capability in the centre of the park, Joe Williams: Matty James would give us another option. 

[Jeez]

No doubt will be a fascinating summer transfer window. Fully expect all our best prospects will be sold AS, HNM & AS.

Income raised from sell on % and a clear out of more players either out of contact or not on the bus will leave us in great shape financially but needing new recruits.

However, I get a feeling next season will be a frugal affair as a I suspect SL won’t won’t to sail as close the the FFP limits again so expect the cash banked with free / low cost transfers & academy prospects filling the void.

[Roger Red Hat]

29 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

Fully expect all our best prospects will be sold AS, HNM & AS.

Can't see that happening.

[Jeez]

7 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Can't see that happening.

Why?

No doubt we’ll get offers for Scott & Semenyo - & guess what they’ll be too good to turn down / can’t deny the lad to play in PL etc etc. We’ve heard it all before.

HNM doesn’t sign a new contact & boom he’ll be gone too.

TBF Why would they stay here to grind out another average championship season at City. Young people tend to want it all now & these lads will be no different given the chance - city will be rubbing their hands thinking we’ve gone from record losses to back in profit thus SL’s sustainability plan.

We’ll be treading water until relegation calls when we run out if breath/interest from our owners.

[Roger Red Hat]

2 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

Why?

I don't think we will allow all 3 to leave at the same time. HNM might due to his transfer situation, and I don't believe we'll get the offers we will accept for the other 2 at this moment in time. It's worth remembering we are also trying to build a side to challenge at the top of the division. We'll be as far away as ever if we allow all 3 to go at the same time.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

6 hours ago, Street red said:

Pearson won't need a lot of money to get quality he's great in the transfer market.Bristol city don't need to spend stupid amounts..The important part is to off load the high earners and start getting players in that appreciate playing for our club.

Well I hope those feelings are accurate. I do suspect lots if feelers have gone out for summer signings but it keeps coming down to getting rid of the high earners

[marmite]

3 hours ago, Padlad said:

Won't we need this cash just to avoid a points deduction? Cant see us spending it.

If Derby get away with it then no clubs need fear FFP from the Football League.

[Supersonic Robin]

 

7 hours ago, Negan said:

I know they said we wouldn't sell our best players but I think the club are praying Semenyo and Scott continue their good form and bring us some serious money in during the summer. Along with Massengo those 3 going would more than balance the books and whilst they are all very good players we wouldn't be far worse off without them should we recruit the right players. Relying on Webster and Brownhill being sold is a bit hopeful. I do think Kelly will go, especially if bournemouth fail to go up. Newcastle and the Eddie howe reunion seem likely. 

If anything, I think the opposite of this may be true, at least for Pearson - I imagine he's far more likely to be praying that we're able to keep Scott, Semenyo, and Massengo through summer.  These are players that we should really be trying to hold on to if we have ambitions of progressing over the next few years.

Our aim in Summer should be (and almost certainly is) to offload most of the higher earners at the club (Wells, Palmer etc), such that we're under no financial pressure to sell the young talented trio. 

[ExiledAjax]

I think we will need at least one decent sale of £10m or so to make a big difference to the finances come the 2023/24 season. Personally of the trio of Semenyo, Massengo, and Scott I would sell Massengo first. For me Semnyo is harder to replace, and Scott isn't at his full potential yet. My head though says that Semenyo will be the easier sale, and will attract the biggest fee, so when reality bites I reckon it will be him off to Palace, Everton, Villa or that kind of sized club.

£8m in sell-on windfall would be really useful as well, although I assume we'd be passing a small percentage on to Ipswich and Preston. Still, if it came out in the wash as £7m banked then that really would be fantastic, and might allow us to play slightly tougher in negotiations on the younger guys.

[Coin-op]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

If Derby get away with it then no clubs need fear FFP from the Football League.

Derby are a big club no? Little old Bristol City will get a 20 point deduction and every team that we play from now on will get a 3 nil start against us! 

[Negan]

1 hour ago, Supersonic Robin said:

 

If anything, I think the opposite of this may be true, at least for Pearson - I imagine he's far more likely to be praying that we're able to keep Scott, Semenyo, and Massengo through summer.  These are players that we should really be trying to hold on to if we have ambitions of progressing over the next few years.

Our aim in Summer should be (and almost certainly is) to offload most of the higher earners at the club (Wells, Palmer etc), such that we're under no financial pressure to sell the young talented trio. 

In a perfect world we’d move on the likes of palmer, wells and baker. Probably looking at about 1-2 million for all 3 but considerable amount of wages freed up. Be amazing if we can keep all 3 of our young talents but I think we’ll almost certainly lose one, my money would be on HNM at the moment. I expect Bentley will be sold as well, So if we could shift the dead wood, get a nice few quid for HNM/Bentley and the likes of Kelly, Webster and Brownhill are sold, it might just ease our money woes. The only problem is if we want to progress next season we need about 5/6 players in and they need to be ready to hit the ground running. Can’t really afford to bring in any more Tanners and Atkinsons.

[054123]

9 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Hate that Ashton guy.

Me too.

No real long term plan. Poor Uncle Steve had the wool well and truly pulled over his eyes.

[marmite]

1 minute ago, Negan said:

In a perfect world we’d move on the likes of palmer, wells and baker. Probably looking at about 1-2 million for all 3 but considerable amount of wages freed up. Be amazing if we can keep all 3 of our young talents but I think we’ll almost certainly lose one, my money would be on HNM at the moment. I expect Bentley will be sold as well, So if we could shift the dead wood, get a nice few quid for HNM/Bentley and the likes of Kelly, Webster and Brownhill are sold, it might just ease our money woes. The only problem is if we want to progress next season we need about 5/6 players in and they need to be ready to hit the ground running. Can’t really afford to bring in any more Tanners and Atkinsons.

I don't think we should raise our expectations too high next season. Yes we need to push on ,  be more consistent and look to progress, but I think a slow burn is more likely.  Top ten finish next season then go for it the following year. That's my thinking. We are far from ready to go for it next season.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, marmite said:

I don't think we should raise our expectations too high next season. Yes we need to push on ,  be more consistent and look to progress, but I think a slow burn is more likely.  Top ten finish next season then go for it the following year. That's my thinking. We are far from ready to go for it next season.

Sitting here today, I’d bite your hand off for top half next season.

[Red-Robbo]

9 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Hate that Ashton guy.

 

5 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Me too.

No real long term plan. Poor Uncle Steve had the wool well and truly pulled over his eyes.

 

If the money gained from sell-on clauses recoups the money wasted on the likes of Engvall, Gilmartin,  Hegeler, Giefer, De Girolamo, Diony, Rodri, Plavotic, Leko, Ekstrand and a host more, then I'll rethink my position.  

[054123]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 

If the money gained from sell-on clauses recoups the money wasted on the likes of Engvall, Gilmartin,  Hegeler, Giefer, De Girolamo, Diony, Rodri, Plavotic, Leko, Ekstrand and a host more, then I'll rethink my position.  

Me and @VT05763 as well