Good inciteful article.

[Shuffle]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

People keep saying this, but it is utter bollocks.

Han is 20, so if we offer him a new deal then we would be entitled to compensation for him even if he turned it down, because he’s under 24.

If he moved abroad does compensation still apply? Know it’s yes if he went to a team in England but thought it was free if abroad.  

[Waconda]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent.  Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one).

For info, the Recruitment Team lead the recruitment process, but there are many “stakeholders” in that process, e.g. Scouts, Manager, CEO, CFO.

Pearson has said he’s worked under various different models in his time, and that he’s adaptable.  As it stands the likes of Gould and Gilhespy are the people facing off to agents.  He has no need to.  His current role is to have a relationship with the player, if required, e.g. speak to the player about why he wants him, how he fits in, etc.

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

What we do have is a model that allows Pearson to have as much input into the process as he needs to.

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

If he moved abroad does compensation still apply? Know it’s yes if he went to a team in England but thought it was free if abroad.  

Yep.

Rangers had to pay compensation for a signing from an English club.

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

Thanks for the insight 

[DaveF]

21 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

Are you involved in the industry?

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep.

Rangers had to pay compensation for a signing from an English club.

Joe Aribo!

@Shuffleyou hacking my DMs to Graham?

[Waconda]

24 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thanks for the insight 

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

Davefevs insight actually but you are welcome.

[Waconda]

24 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Are you involved in the industry?

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

Davefevs quote, you asking him the same question ?

[Oh Louie louie]

Graham i hate to break it to you.

compo would be peanuts.

I just read rangers paid 300k compo for him.

Is this correct?

[Oh Louie louie]

So we are relying on teams, going up and down,

Then, expecting them to sell their best players.

As for thinking compo will get us out a hole.

I cant help thinking perhaps, we need to be a little bit more pragmatic in our outlook.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Graham i hate to break it to you.

compo would be peanuts.

I just read rangers paid 300k compo for him.

Is this correct?

I think we did the same with Brownhill, paid a few hundred thousand and sold him for millions. Massive profit.

Davefevs ?

[Oh Louie louie]

Mr gould said he would like to give hans a 10 year contract.

Any progress on that i wonder.

More pie in the sky.

[Waconda]

37 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Mr gould said he would like to give hans a 10 year contract.

Any progress on that i wonder.

More pie in the sky.

Sadly given the current state of the club HNM may well see other offers as very attractive and who can blame him ?

We may have missed the "window of opportunity" on that one and have to sell.

[Davefevs]

Brownhill and Joe Aribo fall under very different compensation schemes.

[Waconda]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Brownhill and Joe Aribo fall under very different compensation schemes.

Yes but my point was that in Brownhill we got ourselves a bargain through compensation and then made millions in profit later.

Someone could do the same with HNM - sadly for us.

No interest in the Aribo situation.

Or am I wrong here as HNM is French  ?

Edited March 10, 2022 by VT05763

[Davefevs]

The Aribo compensation example is very relevant, as it sets the precedent should Han run his contract down and sign for a club outside the English FA (which also govern the Welsh pro teams) and therefore do not fall under PFCC scheme.

It is why Scottish FA clubs have taken advantage of the there being no PFCC for cross-border transfers.

If Han were to move to Aston Villa next summer, we would get a sizeable compo, as it would be governed by PFCC, and that would take into account many things, not least the fact we paid Monaco €3m in the first place, the wages we would offer for him to stay, the wages Villa are prepared to pay, how many games he’s played etc.  I think a tribunal would set £5m plus add-ons (more than Harvey Elliott, less than Danny Ings).

If he went to Angers for example, we would be entitled to Training Compensation, and circa €300k.  The FIFA documents do not cover the scenario of a young player who has already moved cross-border (Monaco to City) for a Solidarity Payment (transfer fee).  There is an argument that Training Compensation could be €0, as Han is already considered “out of training”.

Ah well, probably gonna be irrelevant as he’ll either sign a contract or be sold this summer.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The Aribo compensation example is very relevant, as it sets the precedent should Han run his contract down and sign for a club outside the English FA (which also govern the Welsh pro teams) and therefore do not fall under PFCC scheme.

It is why Scottish FA clubs have taken advantage of the there being no PFCC for cross-border transfers.

If Han were to move to Aston Villa next summer, we would get a sizeable compo, as it would be governed by PFCC, and that would take into account many things, not least the fact we paid Monaco €3m in the first place, the wages we would offer for him to stay, the wages Villa are prepared to pay, how many games he’s played etc.  I think a tribunal would set £5m plus add-ons (more than Harvey Elliott, less than Danny Ings).

If he went to Angers for example, we would be entitled to Training Compensation, and circa €300k.  The FIFA documents do not cover the scenario of a young player who has already moved cross-border (Monaco to City) for a Solidarity Payment (transfer fee).  There is an argument that Training Compensation could be €0, as Han is already considered “out of training”.

Ah well, probably gonna be irrelevant as he’ll either sign a contract or be sold this summer.

Yep, someone could do a "Brownhill" on us unless we cash in.

[Davefevs]

No, someone could do an “Aribo” on us.

[Waconda]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, someone could do an “Aribo” on us.

Yes take a player for relative pennies and then sell him for multi millions like we did with Brownhill and Preston.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 09/03/2022 at 08:43, GrahamC said:

Yep, my only caveat to the article would be that as Pearson, Gould & the recruitment set up know all of this, we should be planning now with realistic, affordable targets.

I did have a wry smile at NP’s comment that we “don’t have a defensive midfielder on our books” following my suggestion of Pack, who seems increasingly to fit the bill to me, plus as you know the player I mentioned to you that I think would be suitable to solve the RB issue is probably available & definitely is affordable.

Coventry, Luton, Millwall & Preston all operate within similar recruitment constraints, I appreciate that they don’t have the drag of Palmer or Wells on their wage bill, but whilst making every effort to shift them, we need to have a plan as to how we conduct our transfer business if we can’t.

Final point, even with Simpson gone there are still a few others who are out of contract this summer, so some room to make changes whatever happens.

I am fully on board with getting all players committed to the cause. The problem could be, is the cause NP wants unachievable with the attitudes of modern day players? I wonder if our OK and better players don't like the tough, my way or the highway, approach on offer they know they can always get at least as good a deal elsewhere. I wonder what worked at the time at Leicester can work today with our spoilt players.