Tinkering at the Edges - FFP

[Davefevs]

Just now, Midred said:

Is this down to advice from his agent or even his father?

I don’t know.

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more bit that I had forgotten about but found again when looking at the Agreed Decisions for Derby and Reading.

There is a rule possibly relating to FFP called 'Permitted Player'. Derby and Reading under the Business Plan were allowed 25 of each.

This is separate from 'Established Player' or 'Player of Professional Standing'.

Basically it means anyone who has made 3 starts or more of any age at Championship level or above. May also include equivalent level but unsure.

While not as onerous as that of Professional Standing, it's definitely one we have to consider possible if we can't raise the sufficient funds etc.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Unsure that loaning out cuts the numbers either, doesn't with the other embargoes. As such..in theory, prior to any permanent departures. Definites.

GK:

Bentley, O'Leary

DF:

Tanner, Vyner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Moore, DaSilva, Pring

MF:

James, Williams, Scott, Massengo, Benarous, Bakinson, Palmer

FW:

Weimann, Semenyo, Martin, Wells

Others I don't really know this status of:

Bell, Conway, Edwards, Pearson and Towler.

Not included the out of contract players but I make it 21 to 26 who fit the category prior to permanent departures.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

May as well add to this a little.

As above- but if we somehow fell into a Professional Standing Embargo then it'd be:

Quote

GK:

Bentley, O'Leary

DF:

Tanner, Vyner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Towler, Idehen Moore, DaSilva, Pring

MF:

James, Williams, Scott, Massengo, Benarous, Bakinson, Palmer

FW:

Weimann, Semenyo, Martin, Wells, Conway, Bell

Unsure on the status of Pearson or Edwards.

That would leave- exclusive of any out of contract- 25 Players of Professional Standing. If it came to that and I don't see that it should, then we would have to permanently offload a minimum of 3 to make one signing and then 1 in1 out subject to EFL limitations.

Clearly there are a few on this list that we hope will leave and then some that may go if unable to agree new terms.

In respect of the post above, Idehen would not I expect be considered a "Permitted Player" in the sense that he wouldn't count towards that number. Would remain at 21-26?

Just had a quick check too. If SofaScore is correct then Towler, Benarous, Bell and Conway have made at least 3 starts apiece at Championship level- across this and last season, so would count towards the Permitted Player numbers. Subject to SofaScore:

Permitted Players

We would have 24 and therefore be permitted one more signing prior to any possibly permanent departures, one in one out should we slip into that kinda embargo- a bit of a middle ground type embargo.

Quote

GK:

Bentley, O'Leary

DF:

Tanner, Vyner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Towler, Moore, DaSilva, Pring

MF:

James, Williams, Scott, Massengo, Benarous, Bakinson, Palmer

FW:

Weimann, Semenyo, Martin, Wells, Conway, Bell

Edited May 4, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 of Professional Standing, 24 "Permitted Players"- unsure on the other Embargo, that is 18 I believe- ie Towler, Massengo, Scott, Benarous, Conway and Bell would all be too young to be considered as "Established Players".

Squad limits for the 3 categories are 23, 25 and 24 respectively.

There is a starting point anyway.

Nixon suggested that we may need to spend less this season which goes a bit against what Gould was suggesting about retaining the same budget? Nixon isn't often wrong on FFP issues at EFL level.

Still wondering if what Gould suggests and what the EFL will permit are two separate things.

[Loosey Boy]

On 25/04/2022 at 07:23, Sir Geoff said:

I can't imagine that it hasn't gone unnoticed by Pearson that we have been more solid defensively since Kalas has been out of the team.

I think Kalas will be off in the summer - this could be why we took the decision for him to have his Op when we did so that he’s fully fit for his next employers.

Could be wrong….time will tell

[Davefevs]

“Budget” and “spending less” are two separate things in reality.

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

25 of Professional Standing, 24 "Permitted Players"- unsure on the other Embargo, that is 18 I believe- ie Towler, Massengo, Scott, Benarous, Conway and Bell would all be too young to be considered as "Established Players".

Squad limits for the 3 categories are 23, 25 and 24 respectively.

There is a starting point anyway.

Nixon suggested that we may need to spend less this season which goes a bit against what Gould was suggesting about retaining the same budget? Nixon isn't often wrong on FFP issues at EFL level.

Still wondering if what Gould suggests and what the EFL will permit are two separate things.

You are such a pessimist!

What Nixon is missing is that we are already spending rather more than a bit less.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

You are such a pessimist!

What Nixon is missing is that we are already spending rather more than a bit less.

I rib him too on this….the reality is he’s right to err on the side of caution.  Keep us honest Mr P

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You are such a pessimist!

What Nixon is missing is that we are already spending rather more than a bit less.

I am a little but I assume he hears stuff. We have cut costs but I assume me might mean into next season- I hope he is erring on the side of caution.

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I rib him too on this….the reality is he’s right to err on the side of caution.  Keep us honest Mr P

It's no bad thing Dave- you're slightly more optimistic, I counterbalance it out with caution. Good balancing act. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

This is IF at this stage, IF but covering a few bases.

Seems to have been a bit of a flurry of activity and speculation. May as well update assuming Sykes joins and all of the ooc leave.

Professional Standing embargo feels like a non starter at this stage. I'll assume that if it reaches that stage then it would be with the Permitted Player one which was used in both the Derby and Reading settlements. New addition is in bold.

Quote

GK:

Bentley, O'Leary

DF:

Tanner, Vyner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Towler, Moore, DaSilva, Pring

MF:

James, Williams, Scott, Massengo, Benarous, Bakinson, Palmer, Sykes

FW:

Weimann, Semenyo, Martin, Wells, Conway, Bell

Would be capped at 25 and yes 25 it would be.

Clearly when players are sold- and moved on ie released, settled up that number would be increased but covering all bases, if we were under the Permitted Player rule then we would be at our limit at this precise second. Prior to sales of course- that would include all of the ooc moving on.

This is conjecture on my part- nobody but the Football League and those inside the club know what parameters we are working under but if it was a Business Plan and monitoring and this type of Embargo then this would be it at this second.

Then it would be a case of 1  1 subject to finances.

Based on the Established Player rule...

Quote

GK:

Bentley, O'Leary

DF:

Tanner, Vyner, Kalas, Atkinson, Baker, Moore, DaSilva, Pring

MF:

James, Williams, Bakinson, Palmer, Sykes

FW:

Weimann, Semenyo, Martin, Wells

We would be permitted to make 5 more signings/contract renewals- prior of course to permanent outgoings and subject of course to the financial situation as a whole. Then it would be a case of 1  1 subject to finances.

Not bothering to go back and look at Morton, Edwards, Janneh etc as unsure any fit the criteria.

Towler, Scott, Massengo, Benarous, Conway and Bell would all be under 21 by June 30th 2022 so would not count.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous