Fences back

[Rocking Red Cyril]

After the disgracefully assault on Billy Sharp and what appeared to be Swindon players attacked after the final whistle. I feel the FA will be expected to take strong action against fans and potentially clubs. And surely there will be a move by some to bring back the fences and caging fans as we once where. I dread the return to these measures. But honestly I am in disbelieve at the action of some fans. I hope life bans and proper jail sentences are used for all involved. Our game does not need these idiots. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I wouldn't have thought fences at this stage certainly

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clubs-could-face-partial-stadium-closures-in-efl-crackdown-on-pitch-invasions-j3bkvwcng

Was going to put this on the playoff thread but saw this on Wednesday in the Times. Granted largely behind a paywall...anyway partial capacity reductions or behind closed doors games are a possible punishment.

Last couple of days have contained some pretty nasty incidents.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[eardun]

This was what the EFL put out on Weds - as you say, capacity reductions etc. on the agenda 

EFL Statement: Crowd Behaviour - News - EFL Official Website

[eardun]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I wouldn't have thought fences at this stage certainly

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clubs-could-face-partial-stadium-closures-in-efl-crackdown-on-pitch-invasions-j3bkvwcng

Was going to put this on the playoff thread but saw this on Wednesday in the Times. Granted largely behind a paywall...anyway partial capacity reductions or behind closed doors games are a possible punishment.

Last couple of days have contained some pretty nasty incidents.

A nice comment underneath that article! 

“Also a disgrace was the pitch invasion at Bristol Rovers a few weeks ago. The pitch was invaded 5 minutes from the end when BR scored a seventh goal to lift them into an automatic promotion place. The game restarted 20 minutes later but I imagine the opposition were too scared to play anymore and just wanted to get off the pitch safely. If the opposition had pulled a goal back in those last 5 minutes BR would have had to settle for the playoffs, not to mention the riot that may have ensued.”

[Monkeh]

7 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

After the disgracefully assault on Billy Sharp and what appeared to be Swindon players attacked after the final whistle. I feel the FA will be expected to take strong action against fans and potentially clubs. And surely there will be a move by some to bring back the fences and caging fans as we once where. I dread the return to these measures. But honestly I am in disbelieve at the action of some fans. I hope life bans and proper jail sentences are used for all involved. Our game does not need these idiots. 

Fences will not come back as it blocks a planned escape in event of an emergency,

If there were to come back every single ground would have to close or have attendances reduced by half

[weepywall]

Possibly the only way to stop it would be to literally have dozens if not hundreds of properly paid and trained crowd security personnel around the pitch at high risk games and clubs foot the bill.

[Tinmans Love Child]

Wembley has flat horizontal fences which stick out rather than up, which are more difficult to climb over, which is why you don’t get many pitch invasions as Wembley.  

Edited May 20, 2022 by Tinmans Love Child

[trickytimes]

Surely the flat fences at Wembley are a danger then. If they are difficult to climb over, then they would be even more of a barrier in an emergency.

[steviestevieneville]

7 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

After the disgracefully assault on Billy Sharp and what appeared to be Swindon players attacked after the final whistle. I feel the FA will be expected to take strong action against fans and potentially clubs. And surely there will be a move by some to bring back the fences and caging fans as we once where. I dread the return to these measures. But honestly I am in disbelieve at the action of some fans. I hope life bans and proper jail sentences are used for all involved. Our game does not need these idiots. 

£10,000 fine & a ten year ban for entering the pitch . Make sure there are plenty of posters , social media notifications so nobody can say they didn’t know . Even adverts on talkSPORT , sky sports etc. 

I see news outlets saying Patrick viera will be in trouble for what happened , but how about the ***** that was in his face . Punishments need to be hard , to rid these **** wits out of the game . 

[Tinmans Love Child]

3 minutes ago, trickytimes said:

Surely the flat fences at Wembley are a danger then. If they are difficult to climb over, then they would be even more of a barrier in an emergency.

I’m guessing not as there are enough exits in Wembley (and new stadiums) to get out in an emergency, I’m not an H&S expert so don’t know but I assume it’s been cleared for use

[elhombrecito]

25 minutes ago, trickytimes said:

Surely the flat fences at Wembley are a danger then. If they are difficult to climb over, then they would be even more of a barrier in an emergency.

Pretty sure they just fold down when needed.

[Super]

Not sure fences are the answer but soon a player, manager etc will be seriously hurt or worse. More police at games that are at risk of a pitch invasion is a must and stronger penalties. Ban and fine every fan that goes onto a pitch.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Super

[redsquirrel]

sprinklers with indelible ink,arrested on way out if you are marked.

[Barrs Court Red]

53 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Wembley has flat horizontal fences which stick out rather than up, which are more difficult to climb over, which is why you don’t get many pitch invasions as Wembley.  

Millwall are the only ones I can remember

[CiderJar]

16 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I recall in Italy a number of games behind closed doors as a punishment . The recent invasions and violence cannot be ignored. It is not isolated, it is widespread. It is out of control. 

This young chap lost control at Ashton Gate. They will stop selling alcohol, reduce capacities, deduct points, put up fencing, and yet there will still be idiots like this being reproduced all over the country.
 

 

[And Its Smith]

A lot of angry people in this country at the moment. Anger + booze + maybe drugs, is not a good cocktail 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

£10,000 fine & a ten year ban for entering the pitch . Make sure there are plenty of posters , social media notifications so nobody can say they didn’t know . Even adverts on talkSPORT , sky sports etc. 

I see news outlets saying Patrick viera will be in trouble for what happened , but how about the ***** that was in his face . Punishments need to be hard , to rid these **** wits out of the game . 

Life ban 10 years in jail

[Red DNA]

1 hour ago, weepywall said:

Possibly the only way to stop it would be to literally have dozens if not hundreds of properly paid and trained crowd security personnel around the pitch at high risk games and clubs foot the bill.

Clubs foot the bill? Where do you think that cost will ultimately end up? Yep, all of us will have to pay for the idiots who act like sheep and copy the latest law breaking they see going on elsewhere. 

[Aipearcey]

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

[frenchred]

5 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

Wow, just wow

So because you spend a few quid (individuals choice) following your team you should be allowed to invade the pitch?

Its pathetic to see grown men doing this and the quicker it stops the better

 

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

I’m not sure it’s the pitch invasions per se that is the issue. In the last week we have seen Billy Sharp get assaulted, Vieira get abused last night and Swindon players physically abused last night.  Think there has been one more incident as well but so many I’ve forgotten!  I assume you are not happy about those incidents!  One way to stop them is to stop fans going on the pitch. If fans can’t be trusted to behave on the pitch then they shouldn’t go on it, whether they’ve paid money or not 

Edited May 20, 2022 by And Its Smith

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, weepywall said:

Possibly the only way to stop it would be to literally have dozens if not hundreds of properly paid and trained crowd security personnel around the pitch at high risk games and clubs foot the bill.

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

I recall in Italy a number of games behind closed doors as a punishment . The recent invasions and violence cannot be ignored. It is not isolated, it is widespread. It is out of control. 

 

yep, reduce capacity, season card holders only, behind closed doors etc.  second breach, points deductions, etc.

 

[glynriley]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

yep, reduce capacity, season card holders only, behind closed doors etc.  second breach, points deductions, etc.

 

"Why have we suddenly got a minority of fans being absolute dicks lately?"

I think the answer to this is simple. People see the government flouting any rules they see fit, and think, **** it, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Doris J and his cronies setting a poor example, the gloves are off for the mindless.

[RedM]

I remember the days of fences and barriers well, it was horrible. Certainly didn't feel any safer being caged in and with such a restricted view. I watched many a game through railings and mesh.

Then of course Hillsborough tragedy happened. This changed everything. On the whole fans had to sit and fences removed. As far as i can remember if you had seats grounds couldn't have fencing, people couldn't move to a better view unlike terracing.

I see what people on other threads are saying about removing 10 rows of seats from use all round the pitches to make a barrier, but as I've said elsewhere clubs cannot financially lose out on thousands of pounds and where would hundreds of fans be moved to? And as I've also said many clubs like Luton and Bournemouth for example would have no crowd if they had to lose 10 rows!

Also the Wembley horizontal fencing might work there with a huge run off, but most grounds cannot have a solid metal structure almost overhanging the pitch. You cannot even wrap it with padding as that totally defeats its purpose.

I really hope that fences do not return. I hope the clubs are more strict about refusing entry to those that have obviously drunk to much. I've certainly seen fans get into away grounds being too drunk to function. But what can you do when as soon as people are inside clubs want to sell as much alcohol as they can to you. People shouldn't be going 3 to a toilet cubical,  but can we police the toilets?

'Prevention' of a few has got to be a better road to go down than 'cure' of the masses?

Oh and for the record, I love a joyous pitch invasion, but it has to be that and respect the other team. Let them get off and away without incident.

[Monkeh]

42 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

Entering the field of play is illegal and punishable by football banning orders or prison

[Ciderhead433]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

yep, reduce capacity, season card holders only, behind closed doors etc.  second breach, points deductions, etc.

 

So season ticket holder don't invade the pitch 

[The Bard]

People have forgotten how to behave. Look at our 'leaders'. Rapists, coke sniffing, liars.  They're having a hugely damaging impact on society, let alone their efforts to turn us into a 3rd rate country. 

Ignore the rules, do what you want, **** the consequences.  You'll probably get away with it anyway.

 

[Miah Dennehy]

Police forces have consistently had their resources cut, leading to charging the clubs for their time leading to clubs employing largely ineffectual stewards.

Stop voting for cuts.

[Super]

1 hour ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

I think you are the one out of touch. Should Sky just ignore it then what will that achieve exactly. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Super

[Silvio Dante]

As much as anyone who frequents the politics forum will know that I have no time for the bunch of charlatans in Downing Street, I think to make a link from their knobness to the current spate of pitch invasions/violence is a bit of a stretch.

A few weeks ago after the Bournemouth game the point was made that a load of city fans arrived late, coked up, stood at the front, didn’t watch the game and generally behaved like arseholes. They didn’t do that because our prime minister broke Covid rules, they did it because they’re arseholes. Just like the guy abusing Viera, just like the guy butting Sharp.

The question is, as arseholes gonna arsehole, how we stop them tarring the rest of us with the same brush.

(FWIW I think the invasions at Vale, Goodison, Forest and Rovers were totally understandable and sprung from joy/good natured in the main. It’d be awful to lose that spontaneous joy factor through these knobs)

[Redinthehead]

18 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

 

Stop voting for cuts.

Typo? 

[spudski]

Society and the behaviour of ' do as I want' attitude was always going to escalate...because we have taken away discipline and consequences for actions. 

Parenting and school discipline has changed too far. 

Now we are living with the consequences.

Discipline and education starts in the home. Unfortunately that has eroded.

Too many now blame others...Schools/Government for their own behaviour.

If you can't self control, and think for yourself and need telling, you are becoming more like an animal.

It's only going to get worse.

 

[TonyTonyTony]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's only going to get worse.

Not sure that is true. Go back in time to the 1980's and football violence. Whilst what has happened in the last few days is clearly not good, we are a million miles from back then.

It seems we are in a bit of a post-pandemic period where people are going a bit mad with their new "freedoms". Blame Rovers anyway - they started it off with their pitch invasion.

[BS2 Red]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Society and the behaviour of ' do as I want' attitude was always going to escalate...because we have taken away discipline and consequences for actions. 

Parenting and school discipline has changed too far. 

Now we are living with the consequences.

Discipline and education starts in the home. Unfortunately that has eroded.

Too many now blame others...Schools/Government for their own behaviour.

If you can't self control, and think for yourself and need telling, you are becoming more like an animal.

It's only going to get worse.

 

Yeah because there was never any violence or pitch invasions 30+ years ago....

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Not sure that is true. Go back in time to the 1980's and football violence. Whilst what has happened in the last few days is clearly not good, we are a million miles from back then.

It seems we are in a bit of a post-pandemic period where people are going a bit mad with their new "freedoms". Blame Rovers anyway - they started it off with their pitch invasion.

 

4 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Yeah because there was never any violence or pitch invasions 30+ years ago....

I never said there wasn't. However there was a period after, where it got better.

The violence back in the day was a reflection of the days we were living under at the time.

Anti social behaviour is far worse now throughout society in general, especially in this country compared with many in Europe. 

You think taking away discipline and consequences will make for better society? Seriously?

 

 

[TonyTonyTony]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Anti social behaviour is far worse now throughout society in general,

I think you might have some rose tinted glasses on there fella.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Ciderhead433 said:

So season ticket holder don't invade the pitch 

Yes, of course they do, but you also have control over numbers, you know who has attended, etc.  With CCTV you can start to spot the offenders, etc. That’s the reasoning of progressive restrictions.

[BS2 Red]

20 minutes ago, spudski said:

You think taking away discipline and consequences will make for better society? Seriously?

No.

But I think people have been moaning about young peoples lack of discipline for millennia.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I think you might have some rose tinted glasses on there fella.

Not from my experience having lived through it. 

8 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

No.

But I think people have been moaning about young peoples lack of discipline for millennia.

Of course they have...but we aren't just talking about young people anymore. The parents who grew up with no discipline or lesser consequences are just as bad.

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

I never said there wasn't. However there was a period after, where it got better.

 

That was the kreck drugs, Spud. Back in the 90s, everyone was blissed up, loved up, and madferit = Deano/Bez. ie top human + nonstop dancing.

Now, all this cocaine + booze = Liam Gallagher. ie ********. 

[2015]

2 hours ago, Aipearcey said:

Should player be abused? No of course not. But anyone say calling for fines and bans for fans, points deductions  and other punishments need to grow up or stay away from football. 

Fans have been doing pitch invasions for as long as I can remember, including ironically Swindon at the county ground against Port Vale 2012! Fans spend thousands of pounds and years of travelling up and down the country for very few moments like these, dont let a few isolated incidences and the media fool you into forcing an agenda to ruin rare moments like these for real fans. Sky sports were more than happy to jump on the bandwagon last night and shows how out of touch they really are.

Didn't City do it in 1990 vs Walsall, in 2007 vs Rotherham, in 2004 vs Hartlepool?? I'm sure many who are disgusted with the recent invasions have short memories.

Getting rid of it from happening will sanitise football even more. It's part of football, to see jubilant celebrations. Getting rid of the idiots is the key for me. It's context, if you are pitch invading for no reason, for a mid table finish then yes that shouldn't happen.

[TonyTonyTony]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Not from my experience having lived through it. 

I think you are experiencing a bit of Nostalgia, which is quite common.

[2015]

51 minutes ago, spudski said:

Society and the behaviour of ' do as I want' attitude was always going to escalate...because we have taken away discipline and consequences for actions. 

Yes, but didn't City fans invade the AG pitch in 1990 vs Walsall? So maybe that 'do as I want' attitude has always been there..

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Of course they have...but we aren't just talking about young people anymore. The parents who grew up with no discipline or lesser consequences are just as bad.

You earlier said there was a period after the 90s where it got better. Now you are saying the parents of young people are just as bad?

Which is it?

[archie andrews]

Between 80/82 we woyld invade the pitch if we won a throw in.... 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I think you are experiencing a bit of Nostalgia, which is quite common.

That's twice you've told me what I'm experiencing or thinking... bit odd, as you don't know me. However...you are wrong in both instances. I wouldn't bother posting otherwise.

5 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

That was the kreck drugs, Spud. Back in the 90s, everyone was blissed up, loved up, and madferit = Deano/Bez. ie top human + nonstop dancing.

Now, all this cocaine + booze = Liam Gallagher. ie ********. 

Indeed...if you relied on drugs I guess.

3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

You earlier said there was a period after the 90s where it got better. Now you are saying the parents of young people are just as bad?

Which is it?

I've never mentioned ' young' people...you did. Discipline declined many years ago.

[Super]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Didn't City do it in 1990 vs Walsall, in 2007 vs Rotherham, in 2004 vs Hartlepool?? I'm sure many who are disgusted with the recent invasions have short memories.

Getting rid of it from happening will sanitise football even more. It's part of football, to see jubilant celebrations. Getting rid of the idiots is the key for me. It's context, if you are pitch invading for no reason, for a mid table finish then yes that shouldn't happen.

Its different these days a lot of these fans are either looking for opposition players or going straight to opposition fans. We can't risk somebody getting killed and opposition players put at risk. You have to stop it.

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Society and the behaviour of ' do as I want' attitude was always going to escalate...because we have taken away discipline and consequences for actions. 

Parenting and school discipline has changed too far. 

Now we are living with the consequences.

Discipline and education starts in the home. Unfortunately that has eroded.

Too many now blame others...Schools/Government for their own behaviour.

If you can't self control, and think for yourself and need telling, you are becoming more like an animal.

It's only going to get worse.

 

You’ll be blaming computer games next!  By parenting discipline do you mean hitting?   If yes then I think you are wrong 

[BS2 Red]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've never mentioned ' young' people...you did. Discipline declined many years ago.

I didn't say you mentioned young people. I said the moans about young peoples lack of discipline goes back millennia. It's pretty obvious that a complaint about society's lack of discipline involves young people, unless you think people lose discipline after age 30.

When did discipline decline? 

[Tinmans Love Child]

17 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

That was the kreck drugs, Spud. Back in the 90s, everyone was blissed up, loved up, and madferit = Deano/Bez. ie top human + nonstop dancing.

Now, all this cocaine + booze = Liam Gallagher. ie ********. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 minute ago, BS2 Red said:

 

When did discipline decline? 

1963. When people started having sex.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

As much as anyone who frequents the politics forum will know that I have no time for the bunch of charlatans in Downing Street, I think to make a link from their knobness to the current spate of pitch invasions/violence is a bit of a stretch.

A few weeks ago after the Bournemouth game the point was made that a load of city fans arrived late, coked up, stood at the front, didn’t watch the game and generally behaved like arseholes. They didn’t do that because our prime minister broke Covid rules, they did it because they’re arseholes. Just like the guy abusing Viera, just like the guy butting Sharp.

The question is, as arseholes gonna arsehole, how we stop them tarring the rest of us with the same brush.

(FWIW I think the invasions at Vale, Goodison, Forest and Rovers were totally understandable and sprung from joy/good natured in the main. It’d be awful to lose that spontaneous joy factor through these knobs)

Then show these knobs they will not be tolerated. And I repeat my self . Life bans and 10 years no parole 

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

1963. When people started having sex.

I blame the Beatles.

**** you John Lennon

[2015]

12 minutes ago, Super said:

Its different these days a lot of these fans are either looking for opposition players or going straight to opposition fans. We can't risk somebody getting killed and opposition players put at risk. You have to stop it.

Fair enough, I wasn't around in 1990 to comment, but I just think it was something that was a 'thing' in Football a lot during the 70s, 80s and 90s. 

I don't think pitch invasions should be banned, can you imagine City finally reaching promotion to the top flight and us just having to stand there and clap our heroes? Sorry, just wouldn't happen would it. It would be pure jubilation on the ptich.

[AppyDAZE]

Something has to be done by fines, bans etc etc, but fencing should NEVER EVER return.

Fences, I've no problem with The Three Musketeers.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by AppyDAZE

[Bristol Oil Services]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

Something has to be done by fines, bans etc etc, but fencing should NEVER EVER return.

 

I prefer hedging to fencing.

[Homer Simpson]

25 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Between 80/82 we woyld invade the pitch if we won a throw in.... 

Lucky we didn't win any then.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

You’ll be blaming computer games next!  By parenting discipline do you mean hitting?   If yes then I think you are wrong 

No I don't...lot of presumption on this thread.

Hitting perse is wrong.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

3 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I didn't say you mentioned young people. I said the moans about young peoples lack of discipline goes back millennia. It's pretty obvious that a complaint about society's lack of discipline involves young people, unless you think people lose discipline after age 30.

When did discipline decline? 

Indeed...so it was you who mentioned ' young people'...you brought it up. I wasn't talking about young people perse...you changed the subject and incinuated by your reply that it was me.

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

 

[KegCity]

17 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Then show these knobs they will not be tolerated. And I repeat my self . Life bans and 10 years no parole 

Just for pitch invading? Or for abuse on the pitch?

[BS2 Red]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

Right.

So when was the time where the majority of people had discipline? I'm not asking for an exact date, just a rough idea.

[Bristol Oil Services]

28 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I blame the Beatles.

**** you John Lennon

Yes. Paul and George were ok, they were "nice." You wouldn't catch them streaming across the pitch, let alone taking Billy Sharp out. Whereas (before he went all, "I am the walrus") John, now he had that bit of nastiness about him ....

[IAmNick]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

No I don't...lot of presumption on this thread.

Hitting perse is wrong.

However...I am in the camp of a smack on the bottom to deter a child from hurting itself or others, if words won't work, or consequences don't work is ok.

Not hitting or beating. But a smack on the bottom with an explanation and hug.

That's my opinion...I'm not going to debate it as I won't change my mind. I grew up in that, and the deterent of a smack on the bum worked. 

I don't condone beating or abuse.

I witness more and more, parents trying to control children who are screaming, shouting, throwing absolute tantrums, trying to calm them with words...landing on deaf ears. Often the parents look embarrassed and at a loss as what to do...as words and consequences weren't working.

If you had a child continually running into the road without looking, and not listening to advice or reacting to consequences.........

Indeed...so it was you who mentioned ' young people'...you brought it up. I wasn't talking about young people perse...you changed the subject and incinuated by your reply that it was me.

It's been a gradual drip drip over generations.

 

You may not change your mind, but you are wrong even so.

Evidence strongly points to physical deterrents/punishment not reducing defiant or aggressive behaviour, and nor does it reinforce good behaviour. There is in fact substantial evidence it causes worse behaviour long term, including into adulthood as well as mental health issues.

 

 

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

Right.

So when was the time where the majority of people had discipline? I'm not asking for an exact date, just a rough idea.

Estimate 50/60s and into the 70s.

[BS2 Red]

9 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes. Paul and George were ok, they were "nice." You wouldn't catch them streaming across the pitch, let alone taking Billy Sharp out. Whereas (before he went all, "I am the walrus") John, now he had that bit of nastiness about him ....

Poor Ringo, he's always left out.

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

You may not change your mind, but you are wrong even so.

Evidence strongly points to physical deterrents/punishment not reducing defiant or aggressive behaviour, and nor does it reinforce good behaviour. There is in fact substantial evidence it causes worse behaviour long term, including into adulthood as well as mental health issues.

 

 

There is also scientific evidence and studies carried out, showing that smacking of young children in a controlled manner, in a loving affectionate way with words of explanation, not aggression, and as part of an arsenal of discipline, last resort can be beneficial. And that smacking should decrease as a child gets older.

You've only got to Google it to see how many studies published contradict one another.

Never did me no harm...or my friends I grew up with. 

Only ones who went off the rails were those with no discipline in their lives or were abused/ beaten for no reason.

[BS2 Red]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Estimate 50/60s and into the 70s.

[spudski]

Just now, BS2 Red said:

Yep...there has always been anti social behaviour...but not to the degree we see now. Not sure what you are trying to prove...bit pointless.

[BS2 Red]

Just now, spudski said:

Yep...there has always been anti social behaviour...but not to the degree we see now. Not sure what you are trying to prove...bit pointless.

You genuinely believe that there is more anti-social behaviour now than there used to be?

Because I do not believe that's remotely true. Pick a decade and there will be just as many examples of arseholes being arseholes. It's only rose tinted nostalgia that makes people think the past was so much better.

[Ska Junkie]

A few people are mentioning 'lack of discipline' is inherent, I would add lack of respect to that as well, both for society and themselves.

A pretty sad indictment in all honesty.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

I never said there wasn't. However there was a period after, where it got better.

The violence back in the day was a reflection of the days we were living under at the time.

Anti social behaviour is far worse now throughout society in general, especially in this country compared with many in Europe. 

You think taking away discipline and consequences will make for better society? Seriously?

 

 

It was just as bad then, it jusy wasn't reported as no one had camera phones and social media