The voice of positivity

[maxjak]

23 minutes ago, NOTBLUE said:

Watching us over the last few years,20 months can seem like a lot longer.

Yep....like about 5 seasons........ha!!

[NcnsBcfc]

41 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep....like about 5 seasons........ha!!

I swear it's aged me at least 5 years, rather than 20 months.

I keep having to say to my kids "don't worry, it won't always be like this. Next season will be better"

[cheese]

19 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I swear it's aged me at least 5 years, rather than 20 months.

I keep having to say to my kids "don't worry, it won't always be like this. Next season will be better"

I've been saying that since 1971!

[robinforlife2]

Sorry for saying 2 and a half years! It feels like that, because it's his 3rd season in charge, granted only one full season, But I do think unless we start to see better performances, then he should be replaced. In my opinion, he has had long enough to get his team playing consistently well. I appreciate many disagree and that's fine, but we are all entitled to our own opinion. I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best, no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all, or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out, and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then we might be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him. I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table, if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways. 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Sorry for saying 2 and a half years! It feels like that, because it's his 3rd season in charge, granted only one full season, But I do think unless we start to see better performances, then he should be replaced. In my opinion, he has had long enough to get his team playing consistently well. I appreciate many disagree and that's fine, but we are all entitled to our own opinion.

we are indeed…makes the world go round!

For a bit of Devil’s advocate, were  you generally happy with our performances / results  during our good run a month ago?

And therefore generally less happy with the recent set of performances / results since?

If so, then you and me aren’t that different.  However…

…is your expectation that we play consistently like in our good run, because you say you expect us to play “consistently well”?  If so, then that’s where we start to deviate.  Because I think as a team / squad overall throughout a season we are likely to fall somewhere in between.  If we can average somewhere in between, because post-Wigan we’ve played 12, won 5, drew 2, lost 5, then we’d finish probably 11th-13th.

I have no expectations that we will play like Blackburn (a) each game, nor do I expect us to play like Birmingham (a) either.

If you give me something in between I’ll be happy.  Like most teams in the middle 12, we are good on our day, and bad when we are not.  We do need to limit the bad days.

I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best,

a team won’t always play to their best.  We won’t always be able to, nor allowed to play our best.

no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all,

I expect that too…and it’s only been Brum (a) where that happened, so once in 15 games.

or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out,

as above that is an unrealistic expectation.  If you ever played, did you play at your best every week?  Nope, so why expect it?

and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then we might be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him.

I find him the complete opposite.  If we sell Semenyo and Scott in January, then FFP issues are no-more, and we have a decent slug to invest and also give better depth.  Ideally we keep them and grow with them, but unfortunately we are paying for previous years of mix-management.

I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table,

we can achieve mid-table without needing to play well / at our best every week.  We are 1 point off of your mid-table, and had we held onto a point on Saturday, we’d be 12th!  With Kalas back, James back tomorrow we are giving ourselves some options again, although Kalas will probably need a bit of time to get match-sharp.

if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways.

If we are at that stage, then of course he comes under pressure, but we are way away from that.  When you make comments like that, why don’t to say (for balance), and if we are top 8/9 at that point I’ll be really happy and he will have my full support.  I (personally) find it difficult to get my head around why someone would present only one scenario (a negative one in your case above) and then paint what they’d do if it materialises.  At least consider the other scenarios and tell us what you’d do, even if you think they are less likely to occur.

[robinforlife2]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

we are indeed…makes the world go round!

For a bit of Devil’s advocate, were  you generally happy with our performances / results  during our good run a month ago?

And therefore generally less happy with the recent set of performances / results since?

I would say that is a fair assessment, I was happy up until Burnley. I wasn't as impressed as some with the Burnley performance. What did annoy me was the next fixture, when Nahki and Conway were hooked at Half time, and the replacements were worse. Neither Nahki and Conway had played badly in that game, but hadn't got a look in. I accept why he did it, to try WSM again, but when it didn't work, he shouldn't have dropped Nahki next game and every game since, when if anything overall he has been our best forward this season in the terms of goals, assists, movement and vision. This to me is poor management. 

If so, then you and me aren’t that different.  However…

…is your expectation that we play consistently like in our good run, because you say you expect us to play “consistently well”?  If so, then that’s where we start to deviate.  Because I think as a team / squad overall throughout a season we are likely to fall somewhere in between.  If we can average somewhere in between, because post-Wigan we’ve played 12, won 5, drew 2, lost 5, then we’d finish probably 11th-13th.

I have no expectations that we will play like Blackburn (a) each game, nor do I expect us to play like Birmingham (a) either.

If you give me something in between I’ll be happy.  Like most teams in the middle 12, we are good on our day, and bad when we are not.  We do need to limit the bad days.

I agree with this, but my worry is he is starting to become a bit of a tinker man. We have heard this week, about changing it about, new faces. It brings back harrowing memories of the old "players I can trust" we've heard in the past. I don't expect us to win every week, and if we play like we did against Norwich and get beat, again I've no issues, but for me its the fact we are either very good or absolutely woeful, there is no middle ground. I don't recall a game where I can say we were bang average city, we either look good, or we look like a league one team masquerading in the Championship. I have no delusions of grandeur to think we should be battling for the playoffs, albeit, it would be nice. But I think the team we have shouldn't be flirting with relegation either. 

I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best,

a team won’t always play to their best.  We won’t always be able to, nor allowed to play our best.

No this is true, but the way we have played in a couple of games this season, has been so so bad, that it's like the players couldn't be bothered. 

no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all,

I expect that too…and it’s only been Brum (a) where that happened, so once in 15 games.

I would add Millwall to that as well. 

or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out,

as above that is an unrealistic expectation.  If you ever played, did you play at your best every week?  Nope, so why expect it?

No I was bang average at Football, I tried to play and I scored the odd goal and fluked the odd pass, but I was more of a Neil Kilkenny, I can read the game well, and know what I need to do, or the ball I need to play, but the crux of the matter is, I just wasn't very good. I always tried I know that much, whether it was Sunday league, school team or pub teams, Did I play at my best, well given I was bang average I would say I tried my best, but I wasn't very good, but I gave 100% every time I played. 

and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then we might be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him.

I find him the complete opposite.  If we sell Semenyo and Scott in January, then FFP issues are no-more, and we have a decent slug to invest and also give better depth.  Ideally we keep them and grow with them, but unfortunately we are paying for previous years of mix-management.

I hope you are right.

I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table,

we can achieve mid-table without needing to play well / at our best every week.  We are 1 point off of your mid-table, and had we held onto a point on Saturday, we’d be 12th!  With Kalas back, James back tomorrow we are giving ourselves some options again, although Kalas will probably need a bit of time to get match-sharp.

I agree with this, but I worry that Pearson has started to use the "new faces" changes words and blaming players, this worries me. He seems devoid of accepting when we play awful, play players out position and tactics are poor, that he is as responsible as any. I feel there are certain players that if he continues to play them, it means his previous judgements of the players are wrong and therefore, he wont risk it by playing them. I personally think if Nahki doesn't start tomorrow night, he may as well ask to leave in January, as NP is trying to mess up his career when him and Conway are our best outlet, but it feels like he just couldn't want to turn him back in to Mr 5 minute cameo again. 

if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways.

If we are at that stage, then of course he comes under pressure, but we are way away from that.  When you make comments like that, why don’t to say (for balance), and if we are top 8/9 at that point I’ll be really happy and he will have my full support.  I (personally) find it difficult to get my head around why someone would present only one scenario (a negative one in your case above) and then paint what they’d do if it materialises.  At least consider the other scenarios and tell us what you’d do, even if you think they are less likely to occur.

again, this is fair. He has asked for three years and come Xmas, it will be nearly 2 years, so I would like to see us heading in a forward direction, because you can't tell me that if I tell you I will have the team competing in 3 years, but for the first 2 years we are down near the bottom, that there is any reality that it will all suddenly come good in year three. It would show that the team just aren't progressing and the 3rd year is not warranted. If we are top 10 at Xmas, he deserves to get until the end of the year, and then assess the situation. 
Do I think he is the right manager to take this club forward? No I don't. 
Do I think he has steadied the ship and has added some stability? Yes, I do. 
Do I think there is a risk if he stays too long, we risk undoing some of the progress made? This is my fear. Loyalty gets you so far. Leicester stayed up, sacked him and brought in someone to win the league. He has done a fair job in his time, with a limited budget, but I do not think he would be a manager who could get us promoted, and that's why I would say thank you for keeping us up for three years, but now we need someone who can take us further. That to many will seem harsh, unjust and unfair, but Football is a business, and you have to be ruthless sometimes. 

Answered above in Red. 

[1960maaan]

22 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Do I think he is the right manager to take this club forward? No I don't.

That is fair enough, and while I might agree to some extent, I do think it could prove to be the right appointment for us at the time and for where we were.

24 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

but I do not think he would be a manager who could get us promoted, and that's why I would say thank you for keeping us up for three years, but now we need someone who can take us further.

Again, fair enough. I want to get through this next window , and in an ideal World keep most of the players while seeing off the threat of FFP.
Then we can reassess . I would expect a fair turnover in the summer, we could have money to spend and THEN I think it will be the time to look at the manager. 
We should be on fairly good footing by then and know where we stand financially . We should be able to attract a reasonable manager if we go that way. But I have to say, that looks a long way off at the moment.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Answered above in Red. 

Responses in purple.

we are indeed…makes the world go round!

For a bit of Devil’s advocate, were  you generally happy with our performances / results  during our good run a month ago?

And therefore generally less happy with the recent set of performances / results since?

I would say that is a fair assessment, I was happy up until Burnley. I wasn't as impressed as some with the Burnley performance. What did annoy me was the next fixture, when Nahki and Conway were hooked at Half time, and the replacements were worse. Neither Nahki and Conway had played badly in that game, but hadn't got a look in. I accept why he did it, to try WSM again, but when it didn't work, he shouldn't have dropped Nahki next game and every game since, when if anything overall he has been our best forward this season in the terms of goals, assists, movement and vision. This to me is poor management.

I guess this is where we aren’t party to what happens outside of the 90 mins and at Failand.  Think there was a thought about trying to get Antoine back in, I can see that. Sometimes it doesn’t pay off.  I really like Wells and Conway btw.  But I also think the team has suffered from not having Naismith and James, so whichever pairing chosen is possibly gonna suffer.  That’s football.  I don’t think it’s easy to judge whether it’s poor management either.

If so, then you and me aren’t that different.  However…

…is your expectation that we play consistently like in our good run, because you say you expect us to play “consistently well”?  If so, then that’s where we start to deviate.  Because I think as a team / squad overall throughout a season we are likely to fall somewhere in between.  If we can average somewhere in between, because post-Wigan we’ve played 12, won 5, drew 2, lost 5, then we’d finish probably 11th-13th.

I have no expectations that we will play like Blackburn (a) each game, nor do I expect us to play like Birmingham (a) either.

If you give me something in between I’ll be happy.  Like most teams in the middle 12, we are good on our day, and bad when we are not.  We do need to limit the bad days.

I agree with this, but my worry is he is starting to become a bit of a tinker man.

That’s a bit unjustified, he’s just come off the back of picking an unchanged eleven!!!  Most of us fans (me included) are tinkers, we quite often think it needs freshening up with one or two changes.  But let’s also remember we are going through Wednesday last week, Saturday, Tuesday this week, so some of it might be fully justified.  Williams for example has just played two 90s back to back.  Might we have sympathy if he rested him for Saturday.  If Pring came in for Dasilva, wouldn’t most of us think it was time to give him a start.  He hasn’t got enough players to make wholesale changes.

We have heard this week, about changing it about, new faces. It brings back harrowing memories of the old "players I can trust" we've heard in the past.

All he has suggested is freshening up.  If that is two or three changes, I might suggest that is quite normal in a congested period.  Nige is pretty baked into his seiection rules, I don’t see him throwing it away.

I don't expect us to win every week, and if we play like we did against Norwich and get beat, again I've no issues, but for me its the fact we are either very good or absolutely woeful, there is no middle ground. I don't recall a game where I can say we were bang average city, we either look good, or we look like a league one team masquerading in the Championship. I have no delusions of grandeur to think we should be battling for the playoffs, albeit, it would be nice. But I think the team we have shouldn't be flirting with relegation either.

I guess we have two ways of achieving…through mixed performances, or consistently steady performances.  Let’s not think it’s anything of the scale of Johnson’s boom or bust time!!!

I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best,

a team won’t always play to their best.  We won’t always be able to, nor allowed to play our best.

No this is true, but the way we have played in a couple of games this season, has been so so bad, that it's like the players couldn't be bothered. 

no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all,

I expect that too…and it’s only been Brum (a) where that happened, so once in 15 games.

I would add Millwall to that as well.

Millwall wasn’t bad, just wasn’t flowing.  Players gave their all, was nothing equivalent to Brum imho.  We created good scenarios, could’ve been 1-0 up inside 60 seconds.  Weimann heavy touch in transition, their goal from Conway giving away after we’d broken the lines.  Yeah, we huffed and puffed, Millwall are masters at stopping you, and then putting you under high balls from set-pieces, even from 10 yards inside their own half.  I give them credit, but they weren’t much better.

or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out,

as above that is an unrealistic expectation.  If you ever played, did you play at your best every week?  Nope, so why expect it?

No I was bang average at Football, I tried to play and I scored the odd goal and fluked the odd pass, but I was more of a Neil Kilkenny, I can read the game well, and know what I need to do, or the ball I need to play, but the crux of the matter is, I just wasn't very good. I always tried I know that much, whether it was Sunday league, school team or pub teams, Did I play at my best, well given I was bang average I would say I tried my best, but I wasn't very good, but I gave 100% every time I played.

And bar Brum, I think our lot have too.

and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then wemight be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him.

I find him the complete opposite.  If we sell Semenyo and Scott in January, then FFP issues are no-more, and we have a decent slug to invest and also give better depth.  Ideally we keep them and grow with them, but unfortunately we are paying for previous years of mix-management.

I hope you are right.

I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table,

we can achieve mid-table without needing to play well / at our best every week.  We are 1 point off of your mid-table, and had we held onto a point on Saturday, we’d be 12th!  With Kalas back, James back tomorrow we are giving ourselves some options again, although Kalas will probably need a bit of time to get match-sharp.

I agree with this, but I worry that Pearson has started to use the "new faces" changes words and blaming players, this worries me.

Who has he blamed?  If he’s critiqued certain player’s performances and made changes, that’s his job.  I really think his man-management is very good.  Players have to take responsibility / accountability too, it’s not a one way street.

He seems devoid of accepting when we play awful,

That’s not true, did you listen to him post-Brum?

play players out position and tactics are poor, that he is as responsible as any.

but they are the same players and tactics (in the main) that you said you enjoyed in our good run?

I feel there are certain players that if he continues to play them, it means his previous judgements of the players are wrong and therefore, he wont risk it by playing them. I personally think if Nahki doesn't start tomorrow night, he may as well ask to leave in January, as NP is trying to mess up his career when him and Conway are our best outlet, but it feels like he just couldn't want to turn him back in to Mr 5 minute cameo again.

who is gonna take Wells on at his wage level?  He seems happy here, the happiest in his time here.  He’s just come off the back of 11 successive starts before his two sub apps.

if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways.

If we are at that stage, then of course he comes under pressure, but we are way away from that.  When you make comments like that, why don’t to say (for balance), and if we are top 8/9 at that point I’ll be really happy and he will have my full support.  I (personally) find it difficult to get my head around why someone would present only one scenario (a negative one in your case above) and then paint what they’d do if itmaterialises.  At least consider the other scenarios and tell us what you’d do, even if you think they are less likely to occur.

again, this is fair. He has asked for three years and come Xmas, it will be nearly 2 years, so I would like to see us heading in a forward direction, because you can't tell me that if I tell you I will have the team competing in 3 years, but for the first 2 years we are down near the bottom, that there is any reality that it will all suddenly come good in year three.

with the right foundations and core, it’s surprising how you can jump through that barrier and give it a good go.  Look at Johnson’s 17/18 team and how it “jumped” ever so quickly from 16/17’s relegation battle.  We haven’t had a relegation battle under Nige, we’ve always been above that…not miles in some cases, but we can progress quickly.

It would show that the team just aren't progressing and the 3rd year is not warranted. If we are top 10 at Xmas, he deserves to get until the end of the year, and then assess the situation. 
Do I think he is the right manager to take this club forward? No I don't.

and I think that comes through in your posts.  Feel free to argue the opposite about me.
Do I think he has steadied the ship and has added some stability? Yes, I do. 
Do I think there is a risk if he stays too long, we risk undoing some of the progress made? This is my fear. Loyalty gets you so far. Leicester stayed up, sacked him and brought in someone to win the league. He has done a fair job in his time, with a limited budget, but I do not think he would be a manager who could get us promoted, and that's why I wouldsay thank you for keeping us up for three years, but now we need someone who can takeus further. That to many will seem harsh, unjust and unfair, but Football is a business, and you have to be ruthless sometimes.

I’ve long believed that Nige will do the groundwork and someone will come along to claim the glory, I.e. it will his replacement that reaps the benefit.  I think Nige will handover from a position of strength knowing he has moved the club on that it no longer needs him, and perhaps no longer motivates him in the role he is currently performing.  I hope he stays around in another capacity though.

[REDOXO]

On 16/10/2022 at 12:36, Davefevs said:

So in this thread you recognise reasons for inconsistency, performance levels, but in your other thread you ignore them and tell us to dream.

I don’t get it.

Drugs!

[cidered abroad]

Interesting thoughts. It's a real yoyo ride supporting City.

The Millwall winner for example.

For two years many of us have been silently screaming for a keeper to come for crosses. We've also been waiting quietly for Kalas to come in an reinforce our defence.

So about four defenders including Kalas were close together and all seemed to go for the ball. Plus Max coming off his line for a ball approx 15 yards from his line. He could not get to the ball because of our defenders in the way. No defender getting the ball away because they were all going for it.

The ball dropping to a solitary Millwall player without anyone between him and the net!

You couldn't write this scenario before the match.

So is the answer to bring back Bentley and leave Kalas out? Are we a bad defensive side or are the gods ganging up on us?

[NcnsBcfc]

5 hours ago, cheese said:

I've been saying that since 1971!

75-79 wasn't too bad.

Went a bit wonky for a few years afterwards unfortunately

[Superjack]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Responses in purple.

Oooh!.. what colour is he gonna come back with?

Is it green?

I bet it's green.

[robinforlife2]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Responses in purple.

 

we are indeed…makes the world go round!

For a bit of Devil’s advocate, were  you generally happy with our performances / results  during our good run a month ago?

And therefore generally less happy with the recent set of performances / results since?

I would say that is a fair assessment, I was happy up until Burnley. I wasn't as impressed as some with the Burnley performance. What did annoy me was the next fixture, when Nahki and Conway were hooked at Half time, and the replacements were worse. Neither Nahki and Conway had played badly in that game, but hadn't got a look in. I accept why he did it, to try WSM again, but when it didn't work, he shouldn't have dropped Nahki next game and every game since, when if anything overall he has been our best forward this season in the terms of goals, assists, movement and vision. This to me is poor management.

I guess this is where we aren’t party to what happens outside of the 90 mins and at Failand.  Think there was a thought about trying to get Antoine back in, I can see that. Sometimes it doesn’t pay off.  I really like Wells and Conway btw.  But I also think the team has suffered from not having Naismith and James, so whichever pairing chosen is possibly gonna suffer.  That’s football.  I don’t think it’s easy to judge whether it’s poor management either.

If so, then you and me aren’t that different.  However…

…is your expectation that we play consistently like in our good run, because you say you expect us to play “consistently well”?  If so, then that’s where we start to deviate.  Because I think as a team / squad overall throughout a season we are likely to fall somewhere in between.  If we can average somewhere in between, because post-Wigan we’ve played 12, won 5, drew 2, lost 5, then we’d finish probably 11th-13th.

I have no expectations that we will play like Blackburn (a) each game, nor do I expect us to play like Birmingham (a) either.

If you give me something in between I’ll be happy.  Like most teams in the middle 12, we are good on our day, and bad when we are not.  We do need to limit the bad days.

I agree with this, but my worry is he is starting to become a bit of a tinker man.

That’s a bit unjustified, he’s just come off the back of picking an unchanged eleven!!!  Most of us fans (me included) are tinkers, we quite often think it needs freshening up with one or two changes.  But let’s also remember we are going through Wednesday last week, Saturday, Tuesday this week, so some of it might be fully justified.  Williams for example has just played two 90s back to back.  Might we have sympathy if he rested him for Saturday.  If Pring came in for Dasilva, wouldn’t most of us think it was time to give him a start.  He hasn’t got enough players to make wholesale changes.

We have heard this week, about changing it about, new faces. It brings back harrowing memories of the old "players I can trust" we've heard in the past.

All he has suggested is freshening up.  If that is two or three changes, I might suggest that is quite normal in a congested period.  Nige is pretty baked into his seiection rules, I don’t see him throwing it away.

I don't expect us to win every week, and if we play like we did against Norwich and get beat, again I've no issues, but for me its the fact we are either very good or absolutely woeful, there is no middle ground. I don't recall a game where I can say we were bang average city, we either look good, or we look like a league one team masquerading in the Championship. I have no delusions of grandeur to think we should be battling for the playoffs, albeit, it would be nice. But I think the team we have shouldn't be flirting with relegation either.

I guess we have two ways of achieving…through mixed performances, or consistently steady performances.  Let’s not think it’s anything of the scale of Johnson’s boom or bust time!!!

I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best,

a team won’t always play to their best.  We won’t always be able to, nor allowed to play our best.

No this is true, but the way we have played in a couple of games this season, has been so so bad, that it's like the players couldn't be bothered. 

no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all,

I expect that too…and it’s only been Brum (a) where that happened, so once in 15 games.

I would add Millwall to that as well.

Millwall wasn’t bad, just wasn’t flowing.  Players gave their all, was nothing equivalent to Brum imho.  We created good scenarios, could’ve been 1-0 up inside 60 seconds.  Weimann heavy touch in transition, their goal from Conway giving away after we’d broken the lines.  Yeah, we huffed and puffed, Millwall are masters at stopping you, and then putting you under high balls from set-pieces, even from 10 yards inside their own half.  I give them credit, but they weren’t much better.

or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out,

as above that is an unrealistic expectation.  If you ever played, did you play at your best every week?  Nope, so why expect it?

No I was bang average at Football, I tried to play and I scored the odd goal and fluked the odd pass, but I was more of a Neil Kilkenny, I can read the game well, and know what I need to do, or the ball I need to play, but the crux of the matter is, I just wasn't very good. I always tried I know that much, whether it was Sunday league, school team or pub teams, Did I play at my best, well given I was bang average I would say I tried my best, but I wasn't very good, but I gave 100% every time I played.

And bar Brum, I think our lot have too.

and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then wemight be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him.

I find him the complete opposite.  If we sell Semenyo and Scott in January, then FFP issues are no-more, and we have a decent slug to invest and also give better depth.  Ideally we keep them and grow with them, but unfortunately we are paying for previous years of mix-management.

I hope you are right.

I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table,

we can achieve mid-table without needing to play well / at our best every week.  We are 1 point off of your mid-table, and had we held onto a point on Saturday, we’d be 12th!  With Kalas back, James back tomorrow we are giving ourselves some options again, although Kalas will probably need a bit of time to get match-sharp.

I agree with this, but I worry that Pearson has started to use the "new faces" changes words and blaming players, this worries me.

Who has he blamed?  If he’s critiqued certain player’s performances and made changes, that’s his job.  I really think his man-management is very good.  Players have to take responsibility / accountability too, it’s not a one way street.

He seems devoid of accepting when we play awful,

That’s not true, did you listen to him post-Brum?

I did, but he still kind of pointed it at the players, which is something I personally don't like. Pearson is not the greatest of speakers in my opinion. He does nothing to inspire confidence with me. By the same token I could happily listen to Lee Johnson, as he talks sense. I guess you can't have everything in life, and I am not advocating for Johnson to come back, don't get me wrong, but I would like to hear positives or solutions and not moans. 

play players out position and tactics are poor, that he is as responsible as any.

but they are the same players and tactics (in the main) that you said you enjoyed in our good run?

Andy King was not centre back during the good run, Semenyo was not starting on our good run, the loss of Naismith is not his fault, the dropping of Nahki Wells for no reason is. I don't think we have played our press game in the last three matches at all tbh, we have looked more of a hoof it and hope. 

I feel there are certain players that if he continues to play them, it means his previous judgements of the players are wrong and therefore, he wont risk it by playing them. I personally think if Nahki doesn't start tomorrow night, he may as well ask to leave in January, as NP is trying to mess up his career when him and Conway are our best outlet, but it feels like he just couldn't want to turn him back in to Mr 5 minute cameo again.

who is gonna take Wells on at his wage level?  He seems happy here, the happiest in his time here.  He’s just come off the back of 11 successive starts before his two sub apps.

He may seem happy, but he has been dropped for no reason to the bench for 5 minute cameos. I would be pretty sure if this remains and the players aren't scoring and performing which they aren't at present, he would have a right to feel aggrieved for for being dropped for no reason. A player who has bagged assists and goals and has proven to still have quality in this league, a team at either end of the table looking for quality, would happily take him on a 5 month loan in January. The fact is, alongside Conway he should be starting. Pearson has tried Semenyo and Conway, it doesn't work. If anything Wells and Semenyo has worked off the bench, and unlike Conway and Semenyo, Wells has proven he can last 90 minutes. What I would like to see is Semenyo or Sykes start ahead of Weimann, and have Conway and Wells up top. I think this could be our best option. For whatever reason, the Weimann of last season has been missing in action for about a month now. 

if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways.

If we are at that stage, then of course he comes under pressure, but we are way away from that.  When you make comments like that, why don’t to say (for balance), and if we are top 8/9 at that point I’ll be really happy and he will have my full support.  I (personally) find it difficult to get my head around why someone would present only one scenario (a negative one in your case above) and then paint what they’d do if itmaterialises.  At least consider the other scenarios and tell us what you’d do, even if you think they are less likely to occur.

again, this is fair. He has asked for three years and come Xmas, it will be nearly 2 years, so I would like to see us heading in a forward direction, because you can't tell me that if I tell you I will have the team competing in 3 years, but for the first 2 years we are down near the bottom, that there is any reality that it will all suddenly come good in year three.

with the right foundations and core, it’s surprising how you can jump through that barrier and give it a good go.  Look at Johnson’s 17/18 team and how it “jumped” ever so quickly from 16/17’s relegation battle.  We haven’t had a relegation battle under Nige, we’ve always been above that…not miles in some cases, but we can progress quickly.

I may be on my own, but I always felt under Johnson, we could achieve something, and I think the cup run of 17/18 possibly took it out of us, we also didn't recruit rightly in the January when we were in a position, where we probably blew our chance of promotion / playoffs. With Johnson's team, until his final season, I always felt we were progressive, and it was a case of trying to not hit that blip each season, which ultimately cost us, and cost him, his job. I always liked Lee as a player, thought he wore the abuse and stigma of being the managers son well, felt we were a better team with him on the pitch and thought he offered a lot, people didn't often realise, until he was not in the side. I always thought he conducted himself well as a manager and was likeable and relatable. I guess his manner and demeaner may have given him more time, and I would also say whilst frustrated, I never personally was wanting to see the axe to fall. Maybe it was blind loyalty, or a sense of certain aspects of people, make you willing to be more patient and hopeful that positiveness will eventually come. I for one hoped it would work it with LJ, and I think sadly he took the job too soon. I don't think he was a bad appointment and we had some good times under him. But in the end, he was given enough time, and probably got a year younger than someone with history with the club would have got. Looking back, I think we sacked Tinnion and Millen too soon, truth be told as well.
In Pearson, he lacks the personality factor for me, I guess maybe this is why I am happier to see the axe fall, I don't know. I just don't feel progression on the field at all. Progression off the field for sure, and I am sure Pearson is doing all he can, and maybe he has constraints others haven't had, but I think his overall recruitment has been overall rather underwhelming. People can say he has had such financial constraints and so on, but they are still his recruitments. I for one do not think we should have let Patterson go. For me he was a good team player in this league and offers plenty as a squad player. I feel he also always had the right attitude as well. Yes it was probably a financial decision, but I don't really think we've replaced him with anyone better. Yes Pearson has progressed some youngsters, but all of these players were at the club before him, and there is nothing to say other managers wouldn't have stepped them up themselves. 
I think Klose has been a solid signing, but he was only signed to help defenders that Pearson had bought in himself, that weren't good enough and an injured Kalas who in my opinion is still our best central defender. 
I think in time Naismith, Atkinson and Kalas can be ranked good signings for the club, but for me overall the remainder have been moderate at best, although too early regarding Sykes and Wilson, but one thing I have noticed about Pearson signings is, a lot of them seem to pick up injuries quite easily, I know this is more bad luck than anything, but it does leave me wondering if he looks at more athletic types, than strong physical types. 

It would show that the team just aren't progressing and the 3rd year is not warranted. If we are top 10 at Xmas, he deserves to get until the end of the year, and then assess the situation. 
Do I think he is the right manager to take this club forward? No I don't.

and I think that comes through in your posts.  Feel free to argue the opposite about me.

Do I think he has steadied the ship and has added some stability? Yes, I do. 
Do I think there is a risk if he stays too long, we risk undoing some of the progress made? This is my fear. Loyalty gets you so far. Leicester stayed up, sacked him and brought in someone to win the league. He has done a fair job in his time, with a limited budget, but I do not think he would be a manager who could get us promoted, and that's why I wouldsay thank you for keeping us up for three years, but now we need someone who can takeus further. That to many will seem harsh, unjust and unfair, but Football is a business, and you have to be ruthless sometimes.

I’ve long believed that Nige will do the groundwork and someone will come along to claim the glory, I.e. it will his replacement that reaps the benefit.  I think Nige will handover from a position of strength knowing he has moved the club on that it no longer needs him, and perhaps no longer motivates him in the role he is currently performing.  I hope he stays around in another capacity though.

I can't see why he would stay on here in any capacity, he has no history with the club, and I am not sure he is the go upstairs type of manager myself. I also wouldn't think having him as say a director of football, would be of much benefit given very few of his signings have been successes. I agree he has a wealth of knowledge in the game and a long standing history and has done the rebuild and stability very well, but I personally feel we have now seen the best of what Nigel Pearson can offer, and I feel you are right about someone coming in and taking the glory, but sometimes that is not a bad thing. 

Answers above in green just to please @Superjack

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Responses in purple.

 

we are indeed…makes the world go round!

For a bit of Devil’s advocate, were  you generally happy with our performances / results  during our good run a month ago?

And therefore generally less happy with the recent set of performances / results since?

I would say that is a fair assessment, I was happy up until Burnley. I wasn't as impressed as some with the Burnley performance. What did annoy me was the next fixture, when Nahki and Conway were hooked at Half time, and the replacements were worse. Neither Nahki and Conway had played badly in that game, but hadn't got a look in. I accept why he did it, to try WSM again, but when it didn't work, he shouldn't have dropped Nahki next game and every game since, when if anything overall he has been our best forward this season in the terms of goals, assists, movement and vision. This to me is poor management.

I guess this is where we aren’t party to what happens outside of the 90 mins and at Failand.  Think there was a thought about trying to get Antoine back in, I can see that. Sometimes it doesn’t pay off.  I really like Wells and Conway btw.  But I also think the team has suffered from not having Naismith and James, so whichever pairing chosen is possibly gonna suffer.  That’s football.  I don’t think it’s easy to judge whether it’s poor management either.

If so, then you and me aren’t that different.  However…

…is your expectation that we play consistently like in our good run, because you say you expect us to play “consistently well”?  If so, then that’s where we start to deviate.  Because I think as a team / squad overall throughout a season we are likely to fall somewhere in between.  If we can average somewhere in between, because post-Wigan we’ve played 12, won 5, drew 2, lost 5, then we’d finish probably 11th-13th.

I have no expectations that we will play like Blackburn (a) each game, nor do I expect us to play like Birmingham (a) either.

If you give me something in between I’ll be happy.  Like most teams in the middle 12, we are good on our day, and bad when we are not.  We do need to limit the bad days.

I agree with this, but my worry is he is starting to become a bit of a tinker man.

That’s a bit unjustified, he’s just come off the back of picking an unchanged eleven!!!  Most of us fans (me included) are tinkers, we quite often think it needs freshening up with one or two changes.  But let’s also remember we are going through Wednesday last week, Saturday, Tuesday this week, so some of it might be fully justified.  Williams for example has just played two 90s back to back.  Might we have sympathy if he rested him for Saturday.  If Pring came in for Dasilva, wouldn’t most of us think it was time to give him a start.  He hasn’t got enough players to make wholesale changes.

We have heard this week, about changing it about, new faces. It brings back harrowing memories of the old "players I can trust" we've heard in the past.

All he has suggested is freshening up.  If that is two or three changes, I might suggest that is quite normal in a congested period.  Nige is pretty baked into his seiection rules, I don’t see him throwing it away.

I don't expect us to win every week, and if we play like we did against Norwich and get beat, again I've no issues, but for me its the fact we are either very good or absolutely woeful, there is no middle ground. I don't recall a game where I can say we were bang average city, we either look good, or we look like a league one team masquerading in the Championship. I have no delusions of grandeur to think we should be battling for the playoffs, albeit, it would be nice. But I think the team we have shouldn't be flirting with relegation either.

I guess we have two ways of achieving…through mixed performances, or consistently steady performances.  Let’s not think it’s anything of the scale of Johnson’s boom or bust time!!!

I don't want him sacked, neither have I ever wanted any City manager sacked, what I want is them to get a team playing to their best,

a team won’t always play to their best.  We won’t always be able to, nor allowed to play our best.

No this is true, but the way we have played in a couple of games this season, has been so so bad, that it's like the players couldn't be bothered. 

no one minds getting beat if you feel the players are giving their all,

I expect that too…and it’s only been Brum (a) where that happened, so once in 15 games.

I would add Millwall to that as well.

Millwall wasn’t bad, just wasn’t flowing.  Players gave their all, was nothing equivalent to Brum imho.  We created good scenarios, could’ve been 1-0 up inside 60 seconds.  Weimann heavy touch in transition, their goal from Conway giving away after we’d broken the lines.  Yeah, we huffed and puffed, Millwall are masters at stopping you, and then putting you under high balls from set-pieces, even from 10 yards inside their own half.  I give them credit, but they weren’t much better.

or at least play to the best of their abilities, but that is not something we see week in week out,

as above that is an unrealistic expectation.  If you ever played, did you play at your best every week?  Nope, so why expect it?

No I was bang average at Football, I tried to play and I scored the odd goal and fluked the odd pass, but I was more of a Neil Kilkenny, I can read the game well, and know what I need to do, or the ball I need to play, but the crux of the matter is, I just wasn't very good. I always tried I know that much, whether it was Sunday league, school team or pub teams, Did I play at my best, well given I was bang average I would say I tried my best, but I wasn't very good, but I gave 100% every time I played.

And bar Brum, I think our lot have too.

and I fear come January the likes of Scott & Semenyo will be off to pastures new, and then wemight be in a little bit of trouble, but Pearson talks the obvious and seems naturally a depressive bloke, which I can't for one minute thinks inspires the players, that is my main worry with him.

I find him the complete opposite.  If we sell Semenyo and Scott in January, then FFP issues are no-more, and we have a decent slug to invest and also give better depth.  Ideally we keep them and grow with them, but unfortunately we are paying for previous years of mix-management.

I hope you are right.

I hope he gets the team playing well, and we can establish ourselves somewhere mid table,

we can achieve mid-table without needing to play well / at our best every week.  We are 1 point off of your mid-table, and had we held onto a point on Saturday, we’d be 12th!  With Kalas back, James back tomorrow we are giving ourselves some options again, although Kalas will probably need a bit of time to get match-sharp.

I agree with this, but I worry that Pearson has started to use the "new faces" changes words and blaming players, this worries me.

Who has he blamed?  If he’s critiqued certain player’s performances and made changes, that’s his job.  I really think his man-management is very good.  Players have to take responsibility / accountability too, it’s not a one way street.

He seems devoid of accepting when we play awful,

That’s not true, did you listen to him post-Brum?

play players out position and tactics are poor, that he is as responsible as any.

but they are the same players and tactics (in the main) that you said you enjoyed in our good run?

I feel there are certain players that if he continues to play them, it means his previous judgements of the players are wrong and therefore, he wont risk it by playing them. I personally think if Nahki doesn't start tomorrow night, he may as well ask to leave in January, as NP is trying to mess up his career when him and Conway are our best outlet, but it feels like he just couldn't want to turn him back in to Mr 5 minute cameo again.

who is gonna take Wells on at his wage level?  He seems happy here, the happiest in his time here.  He’s just come off the back of 11 successive starts before his two sub apps.

if he does that, he has my full support, but if at Xmas we are languishing in the bottom 6, with very lacklustre performances frequently occurring like we've seen against Birmingham and Millwall, then I do think it would be best to part ways.

If we are at that stage, then of course he comes under pressure, but we are way away from that.  When you make comments like that, why don’t to say (for balance), and if we are top 8/9 at that point I’ll be really happy and he will have my full support.  I (personally) find it difficult to get my head around why someone would present only one scenario (a negative one in your case above) and then paint what they’d do if itmaterialises.  At least consider the other scenarios and tell us what you’d do, even if you think they are less likely to occur.

again, this is fair. He has asked for three years and come Xmas, it will be nearly 2 years, so I would like to see us heading in a forward direction, because you can't tell me that if I tell you I will have the team competing in 3 years, but for the first 2 years we are down near the bottom, that there is any reality that it will all suddenly come good in year three.

with the right foundations and core, it’s surprising how you can jump through that barrier and give it a good go.  Look at Johnson’s 17/18 team and how it “jumped” ever so quickly from 16/17’s relegation battle.  We haven’t had a relegation battle under Nige, we’ve always been above that…not miles in some cases, but we can progress quickly.

It would show that the team just aren't progressing and the 3rd year is not warranted. If we are top 10 at Xmas, he deserves to get until the end of the year, and then assess the situation. 
Do I think he is the right manager to take this club forward? No I don't.

and I think that comes through in your posts.  Feel free to argue the opposite about me.
Do I think he has steadied the ship and has added some stability? Yes, I do. 
Do I think there is a risk if he stays too long, we risk undoing some of the progress made? This is my fear. Loyalty gets you so far. Leicester stayed up, sacked him and brought in someone to win the league. He has done a fair job in his time, with a limited budget, but I do not think he would be a manager who could get us promoted, and that's why I wouldsay thank you for keeping us up for three years, but now we need someone who can takeus further. That to many will seem harsh, unjust and unfair, but Football is a business, and you have to be ruthless sometimes.

I’ve long believed that Nige will do the groundwork and someone will come along to claim the glory, I.e. it will his replacement that reaps the benefit.  I think Nige will handover from a position of strength knowing he has moved the club on that it no longer needs him, and perhaps no longer motivates him in the role he is currently performing.  I hope he stays around in another capacity though.

All you need is this colour and you're both home and away with your comments.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

All you need is this colour and you're both home and away with your comments.

I was trying to influence the next response colour

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I was trying to influence the next response colour

OK- thank God you didn't do THIS COLOUR 

[ashton_fan]

It was a great win last night but I doubt we could keep a clean sheet against better forward lines if we continue to concede so many corners (13 last night). If we want to progress to the top six rather than be an inconsistent mid-table side we have to stop defending so deeply for long periods giving opponents a run of corners and/or free kicks, that's how we were undone at Birmingham and at numerous other away games over the last couple of seasons. Many Championship sides rely on set pieces for most of their goals. Max has been an improvement as at least he is willing to come off his line and catch/punch which causes play to reset and break up the play.

[gornagain]

Good win last night I think.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

It was a great win last night but I doubt we could keep a clean sheet against better forward lines if we continue to concede so many corners (13 last night). If we want to progress to the top six rather than be an inconsistent mid-table side we have to stop defending so deeply for long periods giving opponents a run of corners and/or free kicks, that's how we were undone at Birmingham and at numerous other away games over the last couple of seasons. Many Championship sides rely on set pieces for most of their goals. Max has been an improvement as at least he is willing to come off his line and catch/punch which causes play to reset and break up the play.

Last night’s 13 corners is an exception.  Generally there aren’t more than 10 for both teams.