"Nige Should Walk"

[mozo]

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I am not happy about tonight but I always find the whole “one game to turn it around” concept utterly ridiculous. 

Either the board* have confidence in the manager or they don’t. If they do then the manager should stay. If they don’t, the manager should go. But I don’t really buy into the idea of a board that “don’t have confidence in the manager but suddenly will if he wins the next game”, especially when there is then a prolonged wait for our next fixture.

I’m not calling for Pearson’s head but, if a board are thinking the manager should go, then he should go and they shouldn’t be arbitrarily changing their minds based off one fixture.

I absolutely understand why a horrific defeat might hasten a decision to sack a manager who is already struggling but any board that is planning to sack a manager but arbitrarily sets a single game as a test of that decision is weak and spineless and deserves everything it gets.

*I realise this whole “decide after Saturday’s result” nonsense is the view of the OP and not the board but, as the board would make any decision, I’m referring to them as the decision makers.

There's always going to be one game which is a tipping point. Generally if you aim for mid table and halfway through the season you're in the bottom 3 you'll be facing the sack.

This might still turn out to be a decent season but the direction of travel would test the nerve of any club owners, particularly when they're looking for investors and the value of the club could fall off a cliff if relegated.

Edit: just to say, I personally wouldn't sack Nige if we lost to Watford. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by mozo

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

There's always going to be one game which is a tipping point. Generally if you aim for mid table and halfway through the season you're in the bottom 3 you'll be facing the sack.

This might still turn out to be a decent season but the direction of travel would test the nerve of any club owners, particularly when they're looking for investors and the value of the club could fall off a cliff if relegated.

I agree one game will ultimately be the tipping point but that usually happens organically and I find it ridiculous to allocate a game as the tipping point in advance. If you have decided you want to sack the manager if he does not win the next game, then that suggests the tipping point has already happened and you have essentially decided you want to sack the manager. Throwing in “ah, but I won’t do it if he wins the game” just suggests to me the decision maker is weak and lacks courage in their own decision.

[Rossi the Robin]

This isn’t a normal league this season. 2 wins and you can be just off the play offs 

It’s not the usual scenario of being bottom 3 or near bottom 3 

[BUTOR]

Just now, Rossi the Robin said:

This isn’t a normal league this season. 2 wins and you can be just off the play offs 

It’s not the usual scenario of being bottom 3 or near bottom 3 

That is precisely the kind of mentality that will end with us in deep shit

[Ivorguy]

Has NP or one of the other coaches made a comment on tonight’s game?

[WessexPest]

We aren’t showing any signs that we will get two wins any time soon. Our form and results suggest we are heading in the other direction - WBA will soon overtake us.

Last season we were fortunate that our division featured a team who were crippled by a points deduction and two others who were hopelessly ill-equipped to compete at that level. The bottom three were already essentially doomed by this time last season.

No such luck this time around.

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

This isn’t a normal league this season. 2 wins and you can be just off the play offs 

It’s not the usual scenario of being bottom 3 or near bottom 3 

Thats true so far but I do think the league will take shape eventually. It normally does.

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, gl2 said:

If we dont win v Watford, imo def yes, last chance saloon i.m.o.........

finger in the air decision making.  As soon as there are signs of trouble, change course in a reactive rather than a planned way.

Who do you think will be appointing the new manager should Nigel Pearson be sacked?  Either Richard Gould who is leaving soon or Jon Lansdown.  Do you think there has been any serious contemplation of of who we should be lining up?  Thought not.

Remember the Dean Holden 'appointment'?  I think we could outdo that if we sacked Pearson now.

[cidercity1987]

5 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

This isn’t a normal league this season. 2 wins and you can be just off the play offs 

It’s not the usual scenario of being bottom 3 or near bottom 3 

Is this not true by the way

Play offs will be low 70s as usual

And we will be nowhere near them as we would need 50 points from 26 games 

[Topper 123]

Has he not gone yet !

[Jerseybean]

9 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Has NP or one of the other coaches made a comment on tonight’s game?

Yes, on the OS 

[maxjak]

42 minutes ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

Warnock? He’ll have 4 weeks before the next game and then January to trade in battle hardened reliable players 

Warlock? FFS.......are you clinically insane?

[BUTOR]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

Warlock? FFS.......are you clinically insane?

Would rather go down 

[Jerseybean]

3 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Yes, on the OS 

 

13 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Has NP or one of the other coaches made a comment on tonight’s game?

https://youtu.be/C_ynx_7ujaM

[maxjak]

27 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

From my perspective the deeper issues (accepting that some are not unique to us) include:

The previous manager and CE - who IMO were given far too much authority to bring in loads of average/poor players. NP takes a very different position preferring (and partly having to) manage with a small squad.

Our wage structure - NP has sought to create a more equitable wage structure as apparently he inherited a very diverse range of salaries, including some excessive earners.

Our lack of identity and style of play - under LJ it was a lotto week in week out in terms of team selection, again NP has a very different approach e.g. play well and you keep your place.

As you mention our FFP dilemma and the general state of the financial side of Championship clubs which has been compounded by Covid and has required us to sell our best players and grow our own.

The Club culture which has been remarked upon +++ just recently NP spoke about ‘what a nice Club’ we have been. I believe NP has worked hard to turn this around, however, lasting  culture change takes years and years to become embedded.

The Board and major shareholder - who have demonstrated the ability to repeat mistakes and despite building an impressive infrastructure haven’t been able to create a consistent/ successful first team squad.

Our location and history - both of which I believe are barriers to attracting players. 

Realistically turning around a Club like ours takes years - something NP and many fans appreciate. Part of the problem, of course, is that we all want to watch great football and follow a winning team!  

I would settle for just an occasional win?

[Supersonic Robin]

41 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

From my perspective the deeper issues (accepting that some are not unique to us) include:

The previous manager and CE - who IMO were given far too much authority to bring in loads of average/poor players. NP takes a very different position preferring (and partly having to) manage with a small squad.

Our wage structure - NP has sought to create a more equitable wage structure as apparently he inherited a very diverse range of salaries, including some excessive earners.

Our lack of identity and style of play - under LJ it was a lotto week in week out in terms of team selection, again NP has a very different approach e.g. play well and you keep your place.

As you mention our FFP dilemma and the general state of the financial side of Championship clubs which has been compounded by Covid and has required us to sell our best players and grow our own.

The Club culture which has been remarked upon +++ just recently NP spoke about ‘what a nice Club’ we have been. I believe NP has worked hard to turn this around, however, lasting  culture change takes years and years to become embedded.

The Board and major shareholder - who have demonstrated the ability to repeat mistakes and despite building an impressive infrastructure haven’t been able to create a consistent/ successful first team squad.

Our location and history - both of which I believe are barriers to attracting players. 

Realistically turning around a Club like ours takes years - something NP and many fans appreciate. Part of the problem, of course, is that we all want to watch great football and follow a winning team!  

Agree**. Regardless of one's views on Pearson, it's clear that the issues at the club are deeper than the manager. This has been the case for a long long time.

Culture, finances, identity, player recruitment, appointments of managers and staff, etc etc. There's a long list of areas where you'd look at Bristol City, look at other Championship teams, and conclude that we're average at best (likely below average). When you've been underwhelming in so many departments for so many years, you have to look towards the top of the club.

 

 

**The one point I don't agree with is location being an issue. Never really understood the argument for this. There are teams in far 'worse' locations who manage just fine.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Supersonic Robin

[ZideredInZouthville]

48 minutes ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

Warnock? He’ll have 4 weeks before the next game and then January to trade in battle hardened reliable players 

Would probably mean players with one season left in them on high wages making the situation worse. Not much of a fix? 

With all the out of contract players in the summer we’ll be looking at a proper rebuild. For now we’ve just got to see out the season. Long way to go mind.

I seriously doubt play offs was ever a realistic target start of season anyway? Possibly just need to accept that. At least we don’t have the distraction of another cup competition. 

This is a longer term project because of the situation the club is in. F all you can do about it. Don’t see what any other manager would be able to do with things the way they are. 
 

 

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, Chrizzler said:

A weak team in a competition that really isn’t all that important. 

Pretty embarrassing if the club don't take this cup seriously

[Bs4Red]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

We are definitely still cleaning up the mess but I always felt Pearson was not getting the most from what he has. The more time goes on I am convinced he is getting closer to the least he can from it.
 

If we had tried different formations and different players in different roles and it didn’t work I think I could so much easier say it is personnel. It is not the case though. It is this rigid 352 343 thing where we ask 2 non defensive midfielders screen the defence. We ask 2 wingbacks to defend as first priority. We force out of form Weimann everywhere except up front after a 20 goal season(more forward last season than this whether he has been asked or the style just does not allow it could be a separate debate). Persisting with Martin who offers nothing anymore. It is all just chuck the same thing out there and hope for something different. At the minute we are relying on Scott, Conway and Wells to create enough magic to mask our defensive deficiencies.
 

To me it is all a jumbled mess and NP has no clue how to fix it. Bloke has a 30% win rate in near 200 games since he left Leicester. He spent loads at Leicester to get promoted. In the range of 10-15m and this was 10 years ago. Even if you believe with resources he can improve us, he won’t be getting near that any time soon here. 
 

I am sorry I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest with people who support NP. He just is not doing anything to sway me back his direction. I don’t care about right or wrong I just want to see city do well. So if he can turn this around I’d be thrilled to say I was wrong but he has to buck up his ideas over this WC break. 

Pretty much nail on the head for me, he hasn’t improved us and I don’t think he knows how too. 
 

There is enough potential in that squad to be top half.

 

[Davefevs]

Nothing I write on here about Nige tonight us gonna change anyone’s opinion, so…

…tonight he picks a mix and match team.  His decision.  His responsibility.  It performed awfully in the first half, left the subs with a mountain to climb.  I’m not gonna mention any positives, it’s futile, and they’re inconsequential in the aftermath of this type of result and performance.  But…

…we were all pretty excited by thoughts of Low and Kadji starting pre-game, very few (if any) shouts of “play your best(ish) team, get ahead and then introduce the youngsters”, so we all bought into the risk of the team that was picked when it was announced at 6:45pm.  And now we are behaving (in some cases) that we did t understand the risks of such an approach.  That’s not excusing Nige, he did the same.

But we saw how a couple of youngsters mixed in with the wrong team can struggle as an opposed to a couple of youngsters with the best team.  I’m not digging out Low and Kadji, but, I’ve been consistent in my view that at their current development stages:

Kadji - is Bakinson-lite.  He doesn’t want the ball, he doesn’t create angles to receive, and he doesn’t really put his player under any pressure when he closes down.  That sounds harsh, but I’ve seen him enough times to think he needs a lot of improvement and effort if he’s gonna make it.  Tonight was a wake up call. @Sheltons Armywhat did you think?

Low - not seen anywhere near enough of him, but I’ve yet to see him in u21s have a tough opponent, either one who’s physical, or one who’ll spin in him behind.  So until tonight I’ve reserved judgement.  Tonight was “welcome to EFL football”…it was just a bit too quick for him.  But he’s a big lad, still growing into his frame.

I’m not writing either off, and I hope they both take tonight onboard and see where they need to improve.  Both are plenty young enough to improve.

Sounds harsh to start on them, but I’m almost too angry to write about Dasilva and Sykes.  You can see why neither started on Saturday and Nige resorted to playing Weimann and Semenyo at WB. Sykes was a mess positionally, Dasilva won’t be earning a new contract on recent form.

Nige is undoubtedly under pressure from the fans.  The “game in hand” teams stole a match tonight, and we will see what it means for the board.  I still believe in Nige.  Tonight ought to make no difference, silly old cup game, but I believe going through was in some ways more important than Saturday v Watford.  There are players who’ve made Nige’s selection very easy for Saturday.

[Sleepy1968]

6 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Pretty embarrassing if the club don't take this cup seriously

Well the general concensus is

Championship>FA Cup>Caraboo Cup

Add in the illness/injury in the camp, and poor league position, it was pretty obvious what sside is going to be put out.

Oh, and remember when we got to the league cup semi-final? We fielded 'weakened teams' in all rounds prior to the QF,

[marcofisher]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nothing I write on here about Nige tonight us gonna change anyone’s opinion, so…

…tonight he picks a mix and match team.  His decision.  His responsibility.  It performed awfully in the first half, left the subs with a mountain to climb.  I’m not gonna mention any positives, it’s futile, and they’re inconsequential in the aftermath of this type of result and performance.  But…

…we were all pretty excited by thoughts of Low and Kadji starting pre-game, very few (if any) shouts of “play your best(ish) team, get ahead and then introduce the youngsters”, so we all bought into the risk of the team that was picked when it was announced at 6:45pm.  And now we are behaving (in some cases) that we did t understand the risks of such an approach.  That’s not excusing Nige, he did the same.

But we saw how a couple of youngsters mixed in with the wrong team can struggle as an opposed to a couple of youngsters with the best team.  I’m not digging out Low and Kadji, but, I’ve been consistent in my view that at their current development stages:

Kadji - is Bakinson-lite.  He doesn’t want the ball, he doesn’t create angles to receive, and he doesn’t really put his player under any pressure when he closes down.  That sounds harsh, but I’ve seen him enough times to think he needs a lot of improvement and effort if he’s gonna make it.  Tonight was a wake up call. @Sheltons Armywhat did you think?

Low - not seen anywhere near enough of him, but I’ve yet to see him in u21s have a tough opponent, either one who’s physical, or one who’ll spin in him behind.  So until tonight I’ve reserved judgement.  Tonight was “welcome to EFL football”…it was just a bit too quick for him.  But he’s a big lad, still growing into his frame.

I’m not writing either off, and I hope they both take tonight onboard and see where they need to improve.  Both are plenty young enough to improve.

Sounds harsh to start on them, but I’m almost too angry to write about Dasilva and Sykes.  You can see why neither started on Saturday and Nige resorted to playing Weimann and Semenyo at WB. Sykes was a mess positionally, Dasilva won’t be earning a new contract on recent form.

Nige is undoubtedly under pressure from the fans.  The “game in hand” teams stole a match tonight, and we will see what it means for the board.  I still believe in Nige.  Tonight ought to make no difference, silly old cup game, but I believe going through was in some ways more important than Saturday v Watford.  There are players who’ve made Nige’s selection very easy for Saturday.

Do you know how much of the wage bill is taken up by Kalas and Dasilva, Dave? I imagine they will be first out the door as I imagine it’s incredibly significant.

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Well the general concensus is

Championship>FA Cup>Caraboo Cup

Add in the illness/injury in the camp, and poor league position, it was pretty obvious what sside is going to be put out.

Oh, and remember when we got to the league cup semi-final? We fielded 'weakened teams' in all rounds prior to the QF,

Fair points. If only we still had the team we had back then...

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Chrizzler said:

A weak team in a competition that really isn’t all that important. 

Who picked tonight's team then...? 

And the genius explication for the past 20 months.....? 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Do you know how much of the wage bill is taken up by Kalas and Dasilva, Dave? I imagine they will be first out the door as I imagine it’s incredibly significant.

No, but I’d hazard a guess that Kalas is on £20-25k p.w. and Dasilva on £12-15k p.w.  Let’s split the difference and say combined £35k p.w.

£1.8m p.a. in wages plus

£2.5m p.a. in amortisation

eek!

[Spike]

Yeah let's sack him when more than half of our defence is injured or suspended and then bring in a new manager to get pissed off with when he can do anything about it.

[Champfan45]

It was a poor performance but if you weren't saying NP out prior to tonight I don't think losing a meaningless cup game should be the final straw. If we perform like this Saturday then we can revisit it 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

With a squad wage bill of £18 m ( suggested by SL- though that does not stack up with the £28M loss coming) ,

My forecast loss of £23m for last season doesn't at all align to the £18m squad wage bill let alone the £28m one!! Will make for very interesting reading.

That aside, do largely agree with your post and I see hope for the future from these levels with Tanner, Wilson, Atkinson, Sykes- is Sykes the future at RWB or should he move to compete in midfield..Wilson v Sykes for RWB next year? Pivotal that we get through this tough season though, exit the other side still a Championship club.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[WessexPest]

2 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Would rather go down 

Mr Warnock is too busy trying to win re-election to the US senate for Georgia tonight so no need to worry. Arf.

[SouthS22]

That was as poor a performance as I’ve ever seen from City.  It was embarrassingly bad, and as much as anyone may like to make yet more excuses for poor management by brushing it off as a Mickey Mouse cup, any performance that bad by any team that makes that little effort and shows that kind of lack of basic organisation and resilience  is not a sign of any kind of development or plan that is coming together. 

For us fans who turn up to support our team every week, that was a chance to get a morale boosting win before a depressing period at the bottom end of the table. And yet Pearson sets up a joke of a side, exposing some of our younger players  to what turned into a pretty toxic atmosphere quite quickly.  He lets the horror show run for the whole of the first half, then he makes baffling substitutions at half time, putting King in the centre of defence, because that worked so well last time.  And of course the mighty Lincoln (looked it against us) immediately take advantage and score a third straight after half time. 

Another outstanding  demonstration of quality game management from a master tactician at the top of his trade.  Much more of this and we’ll be playing the likes of these every week.   But no worries, as long as we get a good straight talking post match interview, I’m pretty sure it will be alright.