Tomo Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Sit in 3rd place and have lost more games than us! 12 defeats, no draws, 13 wins! In fact only Huddersfield and Wigan have lost more, who are currently in the bottom 3. Blackburn's goal difference is just '2 better' than ours - the championship is a crazy league folks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Blackburn have won nearly double what we have. 7 wins in 25 is killing us. Possibly deserved to win tonight with a much improved second half. Only wins will get us out of this relegation dogfight though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Ooops. Thought this was a thread on old DJs. I’ll get my coat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Blackburn have won nearly double what we have. 7 wins in 25 is killing us. Possibly deserved to win tonight with a much improved second half. Only wins will get us out of this relegation dogfight though We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. You get what you deserve in football overall. Finish your chances and block those shots better and you will get what you deserve. I expect many fans in this league could post the same stuff about their own team. Ifs and buts and blah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. I see your point but I don’t agree it is simply luck. Too often we lack the killer ball at the right time and too often our otherwise effective defensive work is undone by a momentary lapse in concentration. It is certainly about fine margins but, in tight games, other teams are better at doing what needs to be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 8 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Blackburn have won nearly double what we have. 7 wins in 25 is killing us. Possibly deserved to win tonight with a much improved second half. Only wins will get us out of this relegation dogfight though This is the key point. I cringe when I hear 'play like that and we'll win more than we lose' after a good performance but a draw/defeat. Because the table doesn't care how you performed. If we don't start converting good performances to wins we are in for a stressful 5 months here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You get what you deserve in football overall. Finish your chances and block those shots better and you will get what you deserve. I expect many fans in this league could post the same stuff about their own team. Ifs and buts and blah We haven't got what we deserved at all. That was the whole point of my post. I don't think many teams can say they have consistently out played teams and not won. I don't think many teams can say they've lost 2 of their best cbs for the whole season and another for 10 games. I don't think many teams can say they've been 400+ days without a penalty and even longer for a home one whilst also being able to show probably a good 10 examples of clear penalties not given. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: This is the key point. I cringe when I hear 'play like that and we'll win more than we lose' after a good performance but a draw/defeat. Because the table doesn't care how you performed. If we don't start converting good performances to wins we are in for a stressful 5 months here. The way I see it is when we've been relegated before, and most of the other teams I've seen relegated. We/they have been absolute dog shite. I've seen nothing from us which suggests we are a team that will be relegated. Nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 In the case of Blackburn they are just benefitting from 3 points for a win. If the equalising goal was worth the same as the winning goal I.e 2 points for a win then Blackburn would be 8th or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We haven't got what we deserved at all. That was the whole point of my post. I don't think many teams can say they have consistently out played teams and not won. I don't think many teams can say they've lost 2 of their best cbs for the whole season and another for 10 games. I don't think many teams can say they've been 400+ days without a penalty and even longer for a home one whilst also being able to show probably a good 10 examples of clear penalties not given. If you don’t finish your chances like last night then you don’t deserve to win the game. You’ve got last night on your list of games we deserved to win. xG (if you believe in that) had us at 0.8 goals….not enough to win I’m afraid. Coventry was 0.5. I’ve not checked all of them. You’ve just got the same rose tinted glasses on that loads of other fans of other teams will have. Across a season you finish where you deserve. Let’s see where that is I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: If you don’t finish your chances like last night then you don’t deserve to win the game. You’ve got last night on your list of games we deserved to win. xG (if you believe in that) had us at 0.8 goals….not enough to win I’m afraid. Coventry was 0.5. I’ve not checked all of them. You’ve just got the same rose tinted glasses on that loads of other fans of other teams will have. Across a season you finish where you deserve. Let’s see where that is I guess Our performances have been deserving of 3 points in all those games I've mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. Weimann puts that sitter away last night and we win. That’s not about luck. Blackburn would have scored it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Our performances have been deserving of 3 points in all those games I've mentioned. You’re living in cloud cuckoo land mate you really are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, italian dave said: Weimann puts that sitter away last night and we win. That’s not about luck. Blackburn would have scored it. You and I and everyone else on here would put our houses on him scoring that. Andi Weimann from last season would have scored that in his sleep. We deserved to win but didn't. Whilst that's slightly disappointing, the performance was encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 So, Blackburn, anyone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You’re living in cloud cuckoo land mate you really are I'm not the one who's allowing an agenda against a manager to cloud my footballing judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. Agree to a point , I would say we could have won many of those games and should have won some. Our recent run results are awful , but even games we haven't been brilliant we have been the better side, like yesterday. I've often said you finish where you deserve over a season, but break that down and it looks slightly different. Just looking at the Hull game, that was little short of robbery . Even with our letter of apology saying they shouldn't have had a Pen and we should have had 2 it still bugs me. I will say we need to start scoring to make sure we get what we deserve from games though, but I'm thinking more about performance. We have been in all those games so it's just a little change of luck or more killer instinct. Yesterday a couple of chances fell to the guy with 20 goals last year, you would expect him to hit the target at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. You can't say we deserved to beat Millwall or Stoke. Last night Millwall had the two closest chances with the shot that hit Atkinson and the late chance that went inches over the bar. City got in good positions but didn't go close. Against Stoke we gifted them two goals with poor defending and looked largely impotent. Having the better of possession does not equal a deserved win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: The way I see it is when we've been relegated before, and most of the other teams I've seen relegated. We/they have been absolute dog shite. I've seen nothing from us which suggests we are a team that will be relegated. Nothing at all. We are 4 points off the bottom. Not the relegation places, 4 points from 24th. You don't get there by chance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I'm not the one who's allowing an agenda against a manager to cloud my footballing judgement. No agenda. I think if you miss a chance from 7 yards do you deserve to win? You say yes and I say no. I can’t understand how doing something poorly means you deserve to win. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: No agenda. I think if you miss a chance from 7 yards do you deserve to win? You say yes and I say no. I can’t understand how doing something poorly means you deserve to win. I'm a football fan. I'll go to the match. I'll watch matches at the pub with mates. I'll watch matches on the TV. Probably at least 5 games a week I watch. All teams make mistakes, even Man City. I will watch a game and can form an opinion about who I think deserved to win etc. Xg means very little to me because its not an exact reliable science. If someone beats Man City by scoring a 98th winner from a dodgy penalty, despite Man City battering them for 98 mins, then I'll say Man City deserved to win based on their performance in the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: No agenda. I think if you miss a chance from 7 yards do you deserve to win? You say yes and I say no. I can’t understand how doing something poorly means you deserve to win. And the fact that our forwards have gone off the boil in the past 10 or so games is a big problem. Weimann last night was doing the endless running, decent link up play, but losing his head in the final third, just like he used to before last season. Conway isn't getting in the end of things as often as he used to (could be the service which also has been lacking). Semenyo has lost all of his composure in and around the box. Wells is playing well for the team but rarely gets in goalscoring positions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyClapper Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. I agree with much of this. Our problem has been that we’re not always good enough in both boxes. Ultimately that is where the game is decided. We were better defensively last night which is encouraging. Atkinson was good in the centre. Maybe things are simplified for him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: If someone beats Man City by scoring a 98th winner from a dodgy penalty, despite Man City battering them for 98 mins, then I'll say Man City deserved to win based on their performance in the match. That's a million miles from what's been happening to us! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. I get your point, but don't really believe luck comes into it in the end. Often when watching a game I'll mutter "ooh, unlucky!", when what I really mean is "should have done better mate!" "The more I practice, the luckier I get" - Gary Player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swan and Cemetery Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: No agenda. I think if you miss a chance from 7 yards do you deserve to win? You say yes and I say no. I can’t understand how doing something poorly means you deserve to win. I agree that in the end it doesn’t really matter what we do/don’t deserve, we get what we get and have to improve to move up the table. If you take one sitter in five (illustrative not from a spreadsheet) or concede goals due to individual errors, you need to create loads more chances etc etc. However think the OP has a fair point that it’s a tight league with limited signs of us/many others being either brilliant (probably Burnley notwithstanding - I’m still not prepared to acknowledge Sheff Utd objectively!) or terrible (maybe Wigan heading that way?) - so fine margins, which cut both ways, reasonably marginal improvement and we can scoot up the league, but marginally worse and we’re tussling with Hull/Rotherham etc in a dog fight. I’d still argue that if we play like last night until the end of the season, we’ll be fine and if we play like Birmingham away we can prepare for trips to Stevenage, ie performances do matter, but accept, obviously, that the league table isn’t based on performances and a season like this one (11 points play offs to relegation) feels more prone to odd outcomes, so we need to rapidly reduce risks - hopefully Antoine/Andi start to recover their mojo and combined with more solidity at the back, we can progress. Although glass half empty from last night would worry that, along with missing chances, we’ve often been overrun in midfield with only two in there, so need to work out how to avoid whack-a-moling from one problem to another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 I agree with the sentiment of a few, that we have deserved more points from games. Going by performance. I'd love to know how many goals we've conceded this year, down to what would be considered individual errors. As a whole, we've performed as a team well. Let down often by individual mistakes rather than how the team is performing in general. I'll concede there is an argument that individual errors can be increased/ forced if players are playing out of a preferred position, or the set up isn't right and the more pressure, the more likely an individual is likely to make a mistake. What's frustrating, is that we have the ability to be higher up the table. Yesterday was a prime example. Defensively sound, team balanced, well disciplined and pro active. We created chances...but no quality end finish. On another day...we've been inept at the former, yet clinical when finishing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We haven't got what we deserved at all. That was the whole point of my post. I don't think many teams can say they have consistently out played teams and not won. I don't think many teams can say they've lost 2 of their best cbs for the whole season and another for 10 games. I don't think many teams can say they've been 400+ days without a penalty and even longer for a home one whilst also being able to show probably a good 10 examples of clear penalties not given. I agree with a lot that you say, but my feeling is, we’re not doing enough to make our own luck. By that I mean, we’re not pressuring teams enough to get them rattled into making mistakes. We are usually playing at quite a low tempo and our build-up play is generally a bit ponderous, so allows opposition defences plenty of time to set up. When we occasionally attack at speed, we look far more dangerous as a result. A good example was at the end of the first half against Stoke, when we were attacking at pace with a 10 min spell of sustained pressure. They looked really uncomfortable at that point and looked like they were there for the taking. If we’d reproduced some of that pressure in the second half, I’m certain we’d have seen a far different result. Sadly, we didn’t show any of that 2nd half and as a result, Stoke saw the game out very comfortably. So in short, if we stop being so timid, we up the tempo and impose ourselves more on the opposition, I’ll bet we’ll find ourselves becoming a far ‘luckier’ team! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: We've deserved to win a lot of games Hull Wigan Blackpool Burnley/Norwich deserved at least draws Coventry Swansea Sheff Utd Watford Stoke Millwall Win half of those games we deserved to win and we're comfortably in the play offs. At the moment we must be one of the unluckiest teams there is. We don't win games we should win. We don't get penalties we should get. We sometimes don't even pick up points from games we should win. We are constantly battling with injuries. Kalas and Baker both being out were huge blows. Whilst our position in the league isn't great. We are not where we should be. Bit more luck in some of those games and it's all good. I try to not lose sight of that. There is good happening behind the scenes, it's just not quite showing in the results. On top of our poor luck, we very rarely pick up points or wins in games where we don't deserve it. We don't get any smash and grabs. Middlesbrough is one of the only ones I can think of. We don't tend to get battered either. Birmingham is one of the only ones I can think of. I don't like to blame everything on luck but all of that is rather bizarre. Wow..! Some of those games, yes, I'll agree we deserved more than we got, but certainly not all of them! Deserved more based on what, exactly.?! Now, for balance - look at the games where we have been fortunate to have won (shouldn't take very long!) And also games where we've picked up a point, when the other team will feel hard done by...... I'd suggest that it will, at best, "even itself out" or at worst, actually add up to us being better off than we perhaps deserve to be. To think we deserved more from Burnley & Wigan & Stoke & Coventry certainly doesn't tally with my recollection of those games. The only games that stand out as probably having deserved better than we got would be the defeats against Norwich & Sheff Utd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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