Bell and the Academy.

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

You can’t fault what the academy is doing for us, but it’s frustrating how we’ve been unable to capitalise on the talent that we produce. For me, the role of an academy should be to produce young players who either benefit the team long term, or net us a substantial profit which we then use to strengthen the team appropriately. 
 

It’s a good business model, but the cycle seems to be something like this:

1) Young player breaks through into the first team after a few mixed loan spells.

2) Young player is snapped up by Bournemouth, Burnley or whoever after just one good season for us, stopping us from building a team around them long term.

3) The money we get from said young player is either wasted on poor recruitment or used to cover our losses.

Rinse and repeat.

At the moment it seems that the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth benefit more from our academy than we do. It’s hard to get excited about the likes of Scott, Pring and Brll when we know that as soon as they are ready,  they’ll be playing for one of the above teams and the money gained won’t be used wisely.

That's a bit harsh. You are judging the current people in charge of the club on the previous people. We no longer have Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson "stockpiling" players. The problem we have at present is not using the money wisely, it's not using it at all and having to cover FFFP losses as per your point 2 above due to the actions of the above two charlatans. What money have we wasted since they left the club (Danny Simpson but not much else I can think of)?

Assuming Nige keeps us up this season (which I fully expect him to do) we know that Scott is on his way, we can't do much about that, and we should be receiving significant wedge for him. This will be the time we can judge Pearson properly because he will have some latitude to bring players in. To tar Pearson and Gould with the same brush as the two previous clowns (don't care what any of you say, Lee Johnson was an absolute ******* clown for not using his own pea sized brain and just going along blindly with what Ashton "permitted" him to do) is utterly wrong and out of order in my view.

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

You can’t fault what the academy is doing for us, but it’s frustrating how we’ve been unable to capitalise on the talent that we produce. For me, the role of an academy should be to produce young players who either benefit the team long term, or net us a substantial profit which we then use to strengthen the team appropriately. 
 

It’s a good business model, but the cycle seems to be something like this:

1) Young player breaks through into the first team after a few mixed loan spells.

2) Young player is snapped up by Bournemouth, Burnley or whoever after just one good season for us, stopping us from building a team around them long term.

3) The money we get from said young player is either wasted on poor recruitment or used to cover our losses.

Rinse and repeat.

At the moment it seems that the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth benefit more from our academy than we do. It’s hard to get excited about the likes of Scott, Pring and Brll when we know that as soon as they are ready,  they’ll be playing for one of the above teams and the money gained won’t be used wisely.

You're being a target negative. Max, Vyner and Pring are the mid twenties former Academy/ Youth brought in.

Followed by Scott, Conway, Bell.

However good our Academy is at rearing first team regulars, it will only be a couple every two years or so. And as we are now only two years since NP arrived and was forced and probably chose to, blood all the young ones that have played in the first team.

Some of these have already been moved on as not suitable for our first team with as yet only one sale of Semenyo. Others will take time to grow into old pros at 21/24 years.

We have an Academy to be very proud of and you are still not satisfied? 

[cidered abroad]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That's a bit harsh. You are judging the current people in charge of the club on the previous people. We no longer have Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson "stockpiling" players. The problem we have at present is not using the money wisely, it's not using it at all and having to cover FFFP losses as per your point 2 above due to the actions of the above two charlatans. What money have we wasted since they left the club (Danny Simpson but not much else I can think of)?

Assuming Nige keeps us up this season (which I fully expect him to do) we know that Scott is on his way, we can't do much about that, and we should be receiving significant wedge for him. This will be the time we can judge Pearson properly because he will have some latitude to bring players in. To tar Pearson and Gould with the same brush as the two previous clowns (don't care what any of you say, Lee Johnson was an absolute ******* clown for not using his own pea sized brain and just going along blindly with what Ashton "permitted" him to do) is utterly wrong and out of order in my view.

Totally agree with this post. Bang on the nail head.

[The Journalist]

12 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Bell’s second goal reinforces my opinion that he’s the most exciting striker prospect to come out of our academy.

The first goal was well taken but probably every player on the pitch has the ability to score that.

The second goal very few on the pitch would have been capable of that, that’s pure striker instinct, going at speed after a brilliant first touch then to bring out a cool chip like that. I’m not sure you can learn, you’ve either got it or you haven’t.

I realise this is a fairly worthless thing to say, but Semenyo wouldn’t have finished that second goal. He has neither the touch nor composure to have scored from that position.

There’s obviously plenty that Semenyo has than Bell doesn’t - but almost all exclusively physical attributes.

[cidercity1987]

11 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

But for a heavy first touch he would have had a hat trick today.

Just to jump in here but it was a deliberate heavy touch to a) ensure the defender couldn't get back and b)  draw the keeper ready for a chip again

Didn't quite work for the third but certainly did for his second

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

I realise this is a fairly worthless thing to say, but Semenyo wouldn’t have finished that second goal. He has neither the touch nor composure to have scored from that position.

There’s obviously plenty that Semenyo has than Bell doesn’t - but almost all exclusively physical attributes.

I'd been thinking similar. 

I don't think Semenyo reacts quickly enough to get to the loose ball in the box for the first either. I don't think he returns the low corner either.

As you say, Semenyo may well have scored two other goals, but Bell did things that Semenyo wouldn't do. Just based on what I've seen this month I think Bell is the cleverer footballer and has a greater degree of instinct and finesse.

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

That's a bit harsh. You are judging the current people in charge of the club on the previous people. We no longer have Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson "stockpiling" players. The problem we have at present is not using the money wisely, it's not using it at all and having to cover FFFP losses as per your point 2 above due to the actions of the above two charlatans. What money have we wasted since they left the club (Danny Simpson but not much else I can think of)?

Assuming Nige keeps us up this season (which I fully expect him to do) we know that Scott is on his way, we can't do much about that, and we should be receiving significant wedge for him. This will be the time we can judge Pearson properly because he will have some latitude to bring players in. To tar Pearson and Gould with the same brush as the two previous clowns (don't care what any of you say, Lee Johnson was an absolute ******* clown for not using his own pea sized brain and just going along blindly with what Ashton "permitted" him to do) is utterly wrong and out of order in my view.

Wrong and out of order? Aren’t you overreacting a little bit? I’ve expressed a footballing opinion, not insulted or hurt anyone.

I totally get your point that we shouldn’t assume that NP is going to make the same mistakes of the previous regime, I was just summarizing how things have been so far, that despite producing amazing talent like Kelly, Reid and Bryan, we haven’t progressed at all on the pitch and the business model has yet to really take off. I accept that things COULD change now that Nigel will finally have some money to spend, but it’s frustrating to look at all those wasted opportunities. Imagine where we could be if we’d recruited well, or perhaps even encouraged one of the above to stay? Maybe we can look to the future with a bit more optimism.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Wanderingred

[Numero Uno]

55 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Wrong and out of order? Aren’t you overreacting a little bit? I’ve expressed a footballing opinion, not insulted or hurt anyone.

I totally get your point that we shouldn’t assume that NP is going to make the same mistakes of the previous regime, I was just summarizing how things have been so far, that despite producing amazing talent like Kelly, Reid and Bryan, we haven’t progressed at all on the pitch and the business model has yet to really take off. I accept that things COULD change now that Nigel will finally have some money to spend, but it’s frustrating to look at all those wasted opportunities. Imagine where we could be if we’d recruited well, or perhaps even encouraged one of the above to stay? Maybe we can look to the future with a bit more optimism.

That's the point I'm making. The onus will be on Pearson to spend money wisely. We just can't condemn him based on previous regimes that clearly didn't spend it wisely. Although when I say previous regimes there has always been one constant...........

[Super]

I remember saying a while back I thought Bell looked a better player than Conway and I got laughed at.

 

[GrahamC]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I saw aspects in Sam’s game today that I’ve never seen in the u23s/u21s.  There were a couple of things he did back to goal at Rotherham also.

He’s surprised me, not gonna lie.

Furlong is a streetwise Championship RB, and he was made to look poor today.

Well done Sam.

Me too.

I was also seriously impressed with his stamina, playing wide of a three is a tough gig, but he kept running & running.

Certainly signalled yesterday that he is now a viable option alongside Wells, Weimann & whoever arrives in the next 48 hours until Conway is back.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

That's a bit harsh. You are judging the current people in charge of the club on the previous people. We no longer have Mark Ashton and Lee Johnson "stockpiling" players. The problem we have at present is not using the money wisely, it's not using it at all and having to cover FFFP losses as per your point 2 above due to the actions of the above two charlatans. What money have we wasted since they left the club (Danny Simpson but not much else I can think of)?

Assuming Nige keeps us up this season (which I fully expect him to do) we know that Scott is on his way, we can't do much about that, and we should be receiving significant wedge for him. This will be the time we can judge Pearson properly because he will have some latitude to bring players in. To tar Pearson and Gould with the same brush as the two previous clowns (don't care what any of you say, Lee Johnson was an absolute ******* clown for not using his own pea sized brain and just going along blindly with what Ashton "permitted" him to do) is utterly wrong and out of order in my view.

Agree.  I’ve not heard any “would you trust Nigel Pearson to spend the [insert player name] money wisely” posts this month.  All gone quiet there hasn’t it?  His recruitment record stands up pretty well, very well if you look at how much he’s spent.  And even this week with talk of Semenyo going it was still, stick to the plan, we won’t be spending millions like we did in the past.  Even though he knew there was circa £10m coming in.

[Numero Uno]

As always we have to remember that the lad is starting his career in effect and will show a bit of inconsistency to begin with and won't be performing to yesterday's level EVERY SINGLE WEEK so don't make the mistake that half of the Twitter idiots already had (why doesn't that surprise me) and be calling the kid "******* crap" in six or seven games time.

Some dick tagged Sam in and said "sorry Sam I take back everything I said about you"..........like the lad will give one single **** about a no-mark like that!!

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.  I’ve not heard any “would you trust Nigel Pearson to spend the [insert player name] money wisely” posts this month.  All gone quiet there hasn’t it?  His recruitment record stands up pretty well, very well if you look at how much he’s spent.  And even this week with talk of Semenyo going it was still, stick to the plan, we won’t be spending millions like we did in the past.  Even though he knew there was circa £10m coming in.

As always a tiny minority are lurking in the shadows for our next defeat and at that point the bloke will not be trusted to spend the incoming cash. We all know it.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, The Journalist said:

I realise this is a fairly worthless thing to say, but Semenyo wouldn’t have finished that second goal. He has neither the touch nor composure to have scored from that position.

There’s obviously plenty that Semenyo has than Bell doesn’t - but almost all exclusively physical attributes.

 

Indeedy. Antoine's something of a battering ram and could hold off challenges better than anyone else we had up front. Sam has the vision and pace to be a perfect poacher, playing off the shoulder of the last defender.  You'd hate to face him if you were an opponent. So hard to mark. 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, The Journalist said:

I realise this is a fairly worthless thing to say, but Semenyo wouldn’t have finished that second goal. He has neither the touch nor composure to have scored from that position.

There’s obviously plenty that Semenyo has than Bell doesn’t - but almost all exclusively physical attributes.

Many great scorers were not big of build. Denis Law, Greavsie are two very good examples.

At City Jimmy Rogers, Shadow Williams, Tom Ritchie, Glyn Riley are super examples of smaller, thinner in Ritchie's case, who have worn our short so well.

[Wanderingred]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That's the point I'm making. The onus will be on Pearson to spend money wisely. We just can't condemn him based on previous regimes that clearly didn't spend it wisely. Although when I say previous regimes there has always been one constant...........

I didn’t mention Pearson’s name though, I used the passive voice alluding to the “constant” that I think you’re referring to! It definitely wasn’t meant as a dig at him. Anyway as you say, let’s see what he can do in the summer.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

I realise this is a fairly worthless thing to say, but Semenyo wouldn’t have finished that second goal. He has neither the touch nor composure to have scored from that position.

There’s obviously plenty that Semenyo has than Bell doesn’t - but almost all exclusively physical attributes.

Semenyo is a powerful striker who can make and score goals. However, in a similar way to Fammy, I often felt that his being in the team restricted the way we played, with the tactic all too often being to just get the ball to AS for him to go at the defence. Don't get me wrong, over the last 18 months or so he has come on tremendously and he has scored some tremendous and valuable goals. For all of that I also felt that he missed too many relatively easy chances and, when in the box he often seemed to lack that it of anticipation to get on the en of crosses and passes. 

Bell is a goalscorer - as is Conway. They have goalscoring instincts that cannot be coached, in particular speed of thought and anticipation as demonstrated, as you say,  with Sam's second gaol. What what they currently lack will come with coaching and experience as they develop e.g. last season Conway looked a bit too lightweight, but seemed to have filled out and bulked up during the summer and we saw the results before his untimely injury. Neither might have Semenyo's power ( and probably never will) but both are very quick  - in particular over the first 5-10 yards - and with their speed of thought and anticipation that will frighten defences in and around the box just as much as Antione bearing down on them from 30-40 yards out.

Crucially, both Bell and Conway seem to easily forge a partnership with Wells in a way that I doubt they could with Semenyo. Importantly, with either Sam or Tommy up front with Wells, it does seem to make us a far better attacking team and we suddenly seem to have a more potent midfield.

The only issue with Semnyo going is that we lose that different option, but if are 3 up in every game we might not need a different option! 

[downendcity]

Bell and the Academy.

That's a new band featuring on Britain's Bristol's Got Talent and doing a stadium tour over the next few months

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Indeedy. Antoine's something of a battering ram and could hold off challenges better than anyone else we had up front. Sam has the vision and pace to be a perfect poacher, playing off the shoulder of the last defender.  You'd hate to face him if you were an opponent. So hard to mark. 

I agree, AS used to like to invite defenders to go to him and take them on, then beat them. I might be slated here but often after doing the 'hard' part his finish was literally hit and miss.

Bell seems to like to float in stealth-like as he is lacking the physical power and strength of AS. He is up to and past the defender before they realise he is there. After doing so I think the likelihood he will finish and at least force a save is as good or better than AS.

[Jerseybean]

https://youtu.be/G63ClPHuiGA
 

[Jerseybean]

The Match of the Day highlights focused on our young guns.

I  know much has been said about our academy but when I gave it some thought, the contribution our academy is making and has made to Bristol City FC is quite remarkable.

In the recent past players, such as Kelly, Bryan, Semenyo and Reid all who have moved on learnt their trade in our academy.

Among our current squad, we have Conway, Bell, Scott, Pring and O’Leary if it weren’t for injury Benarous would surely be in this list too.

There are other very promising players coming through including François, Kadji, Taylor-Clarke, Pearson and Thomas.

I have to confess that I am not well read regarding our academy, I’m sure others who are can add to the list of names of past and present players that have benefited from it.

Let’s look forward to us continuing to:

- Identify and attract the best playing talent into our system from our local area.

- Continue to optimise and develop our playing talent.

The academy’s vision is to achieve sustainable, repeatable success at the highest level with a squad built on a core of home-grown talent.

Congratulations to all concerned. Please keep up the good work everybody.

[PHILINFRANCE]

13 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Many great scorers were not big of build. Denis Law, Greavsie are two very good examples.

At City Jimmy Rogers, Shadow Williams, Tom Ritchie, Glyn Riley are super examples of smaller, thinner in Ritchie's case, who have worn our short so well.

Even the oft maligned Kevin Mabbutt was hardly a man mountain.

[Lrrr]

21 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

You can’t fault what the academy is doing for us, but it’s frustrating how we’ve been unable to capitalise on the talent that we produce. For me, the role of an academy should be to produce young players who either benefit the team long term, or net us a substantial profit which we then use to strengthen the team appropriately. 
 

It’s a good business model, but the cycle seems to be something like this:

1) Young player breaks through into the first team after a few mixed loan spells.

2) Young player is snapped up by Bournemouth, Burnley or whoever after just one good season for us, stopping us from building a team around them long term.

3) The money we get from said young player is either wasted on poor recruitment or used to cover our losses.

Rinse and repeat.

At the moment it seems that the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth benefit more from our academy than we do. It’s hard to get excited about the likes of Scott, Pring and Brll when we know that as soon as they are ready,  they’ll be playing for one of the above teams and the money gained won’t be used wisely.

What clubs around the country outside the top division don’t sell their academy products when they reach a certain value? With Semenyo we’re still talking £10m plus so hardly peanuts or having to go to tribunal etc. in the championship it’s hard to build any team around players let alone academy players because of the premier league clubs being so vastly wealthy in comparison so it shouldn’t just be drawn on academy players that you find it hard to be excited about watching. 

[Wanderingred]

42 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

What clubs around the country outside the top division don’t sell their academy products when they reach a certain value? With Semenyo we’re still talking £10m plus so hardly peanuts or having to go to tribunal etc. in the championship it’s hard to build any team around players let alone academy players because of the premier league clubs being so vastly wealthy in comparison so it shouldn’t just be drawn on academy players that you find it hard to be excited about watching. 

As I highlighted above, it’s not that we shouldn’t sell, just that we should have done better with the process of reinvestment, given the money it’s brought us. We have a fantastic academy. If our recruitment is shrewd and done by the right people then there’s no reason why we couldn’t become like Brentford.

[Port Said Red]

7 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

As I highlighted above, it’s not that we shouldn’t sell, just that we should have done better with the process of reinvestment, given the money it’s brought us. We have a fantastic academy. If our recruitment is shrewd and done by the right people then there’s no reason why we couldn’t become like Brentford.

Who, oddly, don't have an Academy.

Going back to the kids coming through, the other great thing is seeing how they are on the same wavelength having played together so much. The best example of that was the hat trick chance that Bell missed out on.Watch the timing of the run and the pass, and it's almost like clicking an electric light switch it's so instantaneous. 

[Mad Cyril]

On 28/01/2023 at 17:30, Vidal said:

 Out too slow and down to easy. 

Are you my wife????

[cidered abroad]

10 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Even the oft maligned Kevin Mabbutt was hardly a man mountain.

One of my great away days at Old Trafford when he got a hat trick!

[Silvio Dante]

I’m wondering how much Nige knew when he took over. He didn’t need the job, geographically it’s not a fit and he would have been made aware of the financial restrictions. Without the academy, it looked a hiding to nothing for him.

Nige was appointed very quickly, but I wonder how much of our academy potential quality was known both by him and wider football when he took over. I’m guessing a lot.

Related point: Note how often Nige is at the HPC for games at all levels/sexes, and surely the HPC being in place with all teams in one location absolutely helps spotting, relationship and transition.

Now, as Nige has been happy to sanction the sale of Towler who is starting every week for Pompey, who’s excited about what defenders may be coming through…

[mozo]

27 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m wondering how much Nige knew when he took over. He didn’t need the job, geographically it’s not a fit and he would have been made aware of the financial restrictions. Without the academy, it looked a hiding to nothing for him.

Nige was appointed very quickly, but I wonder how much of our academy potential quality was known both by him and wider football when he took over. I’m guessing a lot.

Related point: Note how often Nige is at the HPC for games at all levels/sexes, and surely the HPC being in place with all teams in one location absolutely helps spotting, relationship and transition.

Now, as Nige has been happy to sanction the sale of Towler who is starting every week for Pompey, who’s excited about what defenders may be coming through…

In the same way that Nige is very unlucky to be our manager at a time when we're having to drastically cut costs, he's also fortunate to have joined just as pur wonderkid has reached first team maturity, and a crop of strikers are ready too (not to mention all the others showing promise).

Undoubtedly Nige will be inspiring then to some extent and certainly giving them a culture that will enable their growth, but to have so much talent at City is just unusual. 

I was chatting to a Sheffield Wednesday fan who was baffled because he couldn't remember the last homegrown talent at Hillsborough. 

Nige, our coaches and other club and academy staff deserve credit for sure. I also imagine that other clubs have good set ups too without producing such a quantity of quality.

We should cherish this golden generation because it won't always be like this.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, mozo said:

I was chatting to a Sheffield Wednesday fan who was baffled because he couldn't remember the last homegrown talent at Hillsborough. 

Jack Hunt