Nige, Refs , PGMOL & Yellow cards

[Mr Popodopolous]

Yes did read it was rather a soft penalty. How about the West Brom one yesterday, that was hardly a stonewall was it- yet it was given.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yes did read it was rather a soft penalty. How about the West Brom one yesterday, that was hardly a stonewall was it- yet it was given.

Referee initially played on in West Brom game. Only gave the decision when the crowd went mental at the linesman who then raised his flag. Another shocking decision. No contact at all.

[1960maaan]

8 hours ago, Rob k said:

Talking of decisions - on Sat we had a breakaway near the end of the game before we scored, for some reason the ref gave a free kick to Rotherham and i think Weiman got booked, iM still absolutely baffled as to what the free kick was given for? Anyone else know?

I mentioned this on another thread, absolutely baffling at the time.
Now I accept we , and the rest of the crowd , may have missed something. But this is the exact thing the Mic'd up Refs would explain. He didn't even try. They sometimes do a 'charade' type thing to at least give you an idea of what a freekick is given for, but nothing. Just stop the attack and book Weimann .

[ExiledAjax]

8 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Oh dear, watching Luton v Boro......the Luton player is running onto a through ball, keeper comes out and makes no contact at all with the Luton player who simply stumbled to the ground and the ref gives.....a penalty. Luton player clearly goes down without any contract whatsoever.

Var would instantly overrule that decision.

You don't need contact for a penalty.

A penalty can be awarded for a direct free kick offence in the box. A direct free kick offence includes carelessly charging or attempting to tackle. If the referee judged the keeper to have acted carelessly - meaning "shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution." - then he can fairly give a pen.

In this case the keeper goes down sliding with his knees up and a hand out stretched. I can see why it's given. But equally there will be referees that wouldn't consider that to be careless.

Again it comes back to the way the Laws are written.

[W-S-M Seagull]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The list of inconsistencies let's be polite and call them that vs us this year alone is staggering. Pearson is spot on and yeah his wider point about the two different sets of feedback for the same incident well that's ludicrous!

Our unlucky 13. 

1. Penalty against us at Hull- WRONG.

2. We can argue about the two we didn't get there, thought they were more debatable. Possibly cost us a point or 3.

3. Bennett v Wigan- Yellow only! Ha you either give nothing if you aren't certain or a red, I struggle to see how you hand out a yellow.

Either way we were a goal up and comfortable albeit early on. Wigan were chasing the game and in that stifling heat it would have out us in a very strong position. Not sure about the penalty however. Ironically Bennett got a red at Birmingham the following week for a lesser offence.

4. Sykes v Luton- Cost us a new signing settling in well for 3 games and forced us back a bit. Unsure about the penalty on Atkinson but had that been given or the two players sandwiching him he would not have made the red card tackle that he did. When he did make it, was Freeman really only worth a yellow.

5 . A tale of two reds- v Sheffield United, Tanner and Norwood- No complaint with the first but Norwood was fortunate. There was a possible penalty about too though maybe was just outside. Played well, should have won anyway.

6. Tale of two penalties- v Watford. As above, played well and probably should've won and the atmosphere was excellent too as we grew into the game the atmosphere grew with it and the two fed off each other, but yeah one clear penalty denied and one possible. Drew.

7. Swansea at home in Cup- Two, maybe three impressive shouts for a penalty denied. Fortunately replay won and it gave Bell a big night with his goal and assist.

8. Blackburn at home- Another fairly clear penalty denied. Drew, played well, Bell was just about offside.

9. Huddersfield away- Weren't they just allowed to kick us quite freely with little comeback first half especially, was it James who got injured there. Point, on balance of play we probably deserved all 3 anyway.

10. Swansea away- Better side probably won overall but another strong penalty shout denied at 1-0.

11. Well maybe maybe not for this and we won anyway but was Weimann absolutely offside at Stoke?

12. Sheffield United away- Bell- Free kick in the edge and yellow or red at 0-0. Might have forced more cautious defending but probably not a game changer unless we score or it's a straight red.

13. Tale of 2, 3 or even 4 penalties v Rotherham- One on Bell, not so sure, Conway certainly and a possible departure of Humphries too if so! Their two, the first was ludicrous, second that wasn't given ironically more of one of the first...but the one on Hugill to be the only one given I dunno.

Get a couple of those decisions go our way and suddenly we'd be in the play off mix. You can see why Nige is super annoyed. 

I have fans of other clubs say to me "well we all get decisions go against us (and pick up injuries) so it's not excuse" but I don't think many clubs have had this much bad luck with decisions and injuries? 

If we had just a third of those decisions go our way (like they should have) and didn't have so many long term injuries then I am absolutely convinced that based on how we have performed this season, we'd be in the play offs. 

Apart from a team like Burnley who are exceptional it's not always the best teams that get promoted/play offs, it's those that have the best luck with decisions and injuries. Sheffield United for example. I've watched quite a few of their games and every time they fail to impress, they don't look like a team in 2nd but they just get that rub of the green. Same with Coventry. Both teams somehow shithouse their way to a result. Its what we need to get better at doing. 

 

[Three Lions]

23 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Just reading the piece by Bristol Live , very interesting. I like that Nige stands up and talks about the standard of Refs, not worrying about fines. Amazing that the Powers that be send 2 notes that don't even agree with each other. The whole thing is a shambles and I can't see it improving for a while. But not even being able to send an explanation letter ? That is pathetic. The whole system needs a massive shake up.
Also, how do you get booked without a reason for it. Surely there would be a report and they couldn't just make up a reason after.

I like the idea of being Mic'd up, though how a Ref would explain guessing a decision as he missed it would be interesting.

Bristol City manager tired of being patronised as he slams inconsistent messages from PGMOL

Nigel Pearson believes the PGMOL and standard of officiating in England remains in turmoil after suggesting Bristol City are being patronised by the regular inconsistencies and mixed messages when explaining in-game decisions.

The officiating was again called into question in Saturday's 2-1 victory over Rotherham United after the visitors were awarded a highly contentious penalty in the second half when Jordan Hugill went down under the soft challenge of Zak Vyner.

It led to Nigel Pearson receiving a yellow card on the touchline for his reaction that had been brewing following decisions which had gone against his side in the first half. City were also denied two spot-kicks from referee Josh Smith when both Sam Bell and Tommy Conway had strong appeals turned down.

"Could’ve, should’ve had a penalty, maybe but again, I get tired of talking about it in all honesty with the inconsistencies," Pearson would say after the game. "We get a penalty turned down and they get one that looks as though the player falls down in installments and he gives it."

Pearson then went into a lengthy tirade regarding the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Limited) and MOAS (Match Official Administration System) having received two different explanations in the wake of a decision in the 1-0 defeat against Sheffield United.

It occurred in the first half at Bramall Lane when Bell was pulled back marginally outside the area when played through on goal, but referee Geoff Eltringham waved play to continue. Pearson added: "Having said that we received two emails yesterday (Friday) from MOAS which I think are rather embarrassing for them.

"We got one at 14:12 that said that the foul on Sam Bell against Sheffield United there’s a really good case for it being a free-kick and a red card and then half an hour later, we had another one that they’d taken out two paragraphs and put that it was a free-kick and a yellow card.

"They clearly are in turmoil, not only are the officials unclear as to how to officiate games but then the process of how they go through decisions that have either been complained about or people who understand football, like managers and coaches, look at it and I’m not sure they know what they’re doing, to be honest with you.

"The leadership within their group is... wow. Everybody thought Howard Webb would come in and have a positive impact but even in the Premier League, it’s getting things wrong even with VAR.

"The game is in a situation where there needs to be a bit more clarity until the leadership of officiating is improved and we get a consistency of officiating or we’re as coaches or the players are going to end up moaning all the time because it just happens week after week and I’ve said it many times, we’re sick to the back teeth of having these reports come back that just patronise us.

"I got booked and I don’t know what I even got booked for apart from the fourth official basically imploded because he couldn’t deal with anything, and the referee basically came over and gave me a yellow card and didn’t even tell me what it was for so I’m not sure they understand what’s happening in that regard either.

"I just find it laughable in all honesty. They’re irritating, very, very irritating, inconsistent, not good enough and it’s ruining the game.”

Last week, French official Benoit Millot was mic'd up during a top flight game between Lyon and Nantes which received wide praise for the clarity behind the decisions while providing an interesting insight into how officials interact with players.

The decision from the French Football Federation was to "continue to push for the modernisation of the country’s refereeing system". When asked whether the English game would benefit from the introduction of mic'd up refs, Pearson responded: "My answer to the question simply would be yes, I think it would be good for the game.

 

Theres been AYL games abandoned this season because the pitch has been invaded by those who think they know more and better than the ref. Maybe Nige would like to fill in. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Three Lions

[Three Lions]

Just now, Percy Pig said:

So many different fallacies apply to this argument it's tough to know which one to pick.

Plenty of strawman, post-hoc and some convoluted logic. 

 

So you dont think refs should be respected??? 

[Three Lions]

3 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

And some more straw man. 

 

So really you dont think refs should be respected? its a simple question.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Three Lions

[Sir Geoff]

4 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

So you dont think refs should be respected??? 

Surely respect has to earnt. If a ref shows he is inept, incompetent, not up to the job, how is he / she going to earn respect.

[Three Lions]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Surely respect has to earnt. If a ref shows he is inept, incompetent, not up to the job, how is he / she going to earn respect.

eh? When you walk on the pitch you think the ref has to earn your respect?

how can a ref not be up to the job? you dont just pick up a whistle and roll up for a game at ashton gate. they take years to get to that level.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Three Lions

[Mr Popodopolous]

52 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Get a couple of those decisions go our way and suddenly we'd be in the play off mix. You can see why Nige is super annoyed. 

I have fans of other clubs say to me "well we all get decisions go against us (and pick up injuries) so it's not excuse" but I don't think many clubs have had this much bad luck with decisions and injuries? 

If we had just a third of those decisions go our way (like they should have) and didn't have so many long term injuries then I am absolutely convinced that based on how we have performed this season, we'd be in the play offs. 

Apart from a team like Burnley who are exceptional it's not always the best teams that get promoted/play offs, it's those that have the best luck with decisions and injuries. Sheffield United for example. I've watched quite a few of their games and every time they fail to impress, they don't look like a team in 2nd but they just get that rub of the green. Same with Coventry. Both teams somehow shithouse their way to a result. Its what we need to get better at doing. 

 

We're annoyed, he must be furious, so frustrated and rightly so.

Agreed on this. I think you do Coventry a bit of a disservice tbh, they can vary it but largely agree. We do need to get better at this, interestingly we are roughly performing to our level- xG table fwiw ie the Experimental 361 shows us in and around where we currently are.

There are a lot of margins and what ifs...I forgot to add too the excellent penalty shout v Man City not long after they scored.  The crowd was up, had we equalised either then or in the 2nd half period of pressure when again the crowd were right into it who knows what might have happened.

Then disallowed goals and woodwork the ones I recall.

Disallowed

Bell v Blackburn- what a lovely goal it was too towards the end.

Unsure who but someone v Swansea away albeit game basically lost.

Two v Reading, think both Wells.

The aforementioned Weimann v Stoke.

They maybe were right but margins etc.

Woodwork- We seem to love this 

Blackpool Away, was it Wells in the 1st minute?

Sheffield United Home- One in each half, firstly at 0-0 and 2nd at 0-1.

Stoke Home- Bit before we go a goal up, maybe we go 2 up we win.

West Brom Home- Slightly different but Phillips hit his own bar not long after he put them ahead.

Wigan Home- Hit it twice when we woke up, cannot recall if same move or separate ones.

Sunderland Away- Think Mehmeti hit it. Was it at 0-0?

Cardiff Away- At 0-0, sure we hit it first half.

Reading Home- Another one.

Middlesbrough Home- A hard one but Vyner iirc late on.

Watford Away- Hit it once at 1-0 down and once at 2-0 down. Offside ended one of these I think.

[Highburnred]

Having just watched Saturdays highlights again am I right in thinking that our winning goal could have been given offside with Vyner obstructing  the defender on the line?

If so it’s about time we had a bit of luck with the way decisions normally go.

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

eh? When you walk on the pitch you think the ref has to earn your respect?

how can a ref not be up to the job? you dont just pick up a whistle and roll up for a game at ashton gate. they take years to get to that level.

I think the point is more likely to be that they quickly lose (any?) respect through their decision making.

Back to mic’ing up refs…would be good just to hear a recording of their interactions with their assistants, even just for club officials.

Great example here:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9317262/collina-masterclass

What is even better is if you then get the player (T.Muller) to come out afterwards and say he was wrong.

Wouldn’t it be good if Sammy Szmodics came out on Sunday and said he’d deliberately handballed it and wheeling away in delight at scoring was deceiving the ref. You’d start to get a bit of two way respect.

Here’s an example of VAR giving exactly the same view as the ref:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12827357/ref-watch-good-var-intervention-for-st-mirrens-penalty-vs-celtic

Why didn’t he see it?  Could be simply human error, wasn’t sure, etc…but it would be nice to hear why.  Might’ve just all happened too quick.

[Keep the Faith]

16 hours ago, The Bard said:

I need to pick this to pieces. You're both wrong and right.
You're trying to lay this at the door of class - the English disease.  That's rubbish.  Football and rugby are played in other countries.  Ones not so obsessed with gentleman and players and that hypocritical Victorian horseshit.    

1.  The rugby referee actually runs the game.  They have a massive influence on it compared to a football referee. The referee for Brighton v Man U on Sunday made virtually no difference to the game did he? Refs at our level only do if they are incompetent.  There are parts of rugby (eg the breakdown) that come down to how the referee views it. Get that and scrums wrong and you're likely to lose.

2. Rugby is physically violent and knackering, especially if you're a forward.  It's difficult to shout at someone if you're talking to your ancestors as Max Lahiff put it.

3. Role of the captain.  Rugby refs communicate with captains. I don't get why the same thing doesn't happen in football.  Just need to flash yellow cards around to stop the ref being surrounded.

4. Rules of rugby allow refs to punish the team for poor behaviour.  March them back 10 metres.  Football needs to do the same

Absolutely spot on here. You just can’t compare football and rugby. When a penalty is given in rugby usually it’s involving the forwards and they are shattered from the last phase of play and in a pile on the ground. It just isnt the same as football where they are relatively fresh players within yards of the red all on their feet with a decent view of the incident.

Only the captain being able to talk to the ref would be the best way to take something from rugby if it could be managed. It would take a lot of strong refereeing to dish out the yellows and reds when it was first done but I feel it should be achievable.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Highburnred said:

Having just watched Saturdays highlights again am I right in thinking that our winning goal could have been given offside with Vyner obstructing  the defender on the line?

If so it’s about time we had a bit of luck with the way decisions normally go.

No, not imho.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

18 minutes ago, Highburnred said:

Having just watched Saturdays highlights again am I right in thinking that our winning goal could have been given offside with Vyner obstructing  the defender on the line?

If so it’s about time we had a bit of luck with the way decisions normally go.

I think that's really getting into the complexities of the offside rule. 

Strictly speaking when Weimann takes the shot, Vyner is offside. People often forget that it has to be two players from the other team (one is usually the GK) However I'd argue as the initial shot was deliberately played by the Rotherham player for his keeper to parry to Weimann then those two actions played Vyner onside. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

Only the captain being able to talk to the ref would be the best way to take something from rugby if it could be managed. It would take a lot of strong refereeing to dish out the yellows and reds when it was first done but I feel it should be achievable.

This is actually supposed to be the case in football too, however its just not enforced for some bizarre reason.

[Davefevs]

I think the defender near the post is playing him onside a year.  His right shoulder versus Zak’s left t-shirt line??? 

[Three Lions]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think the point is more likely to be that they quickly lose (any?) respect through their decision making.

Back to mic’ing up refs…would be good just to hear a recording of their interactions with their assistants, even just for club officials.

Great example here:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9317262/collina-masterclass

What is even better is if you then get the player (T.Muller) to come out afterwards and say he was wrong.

Wouldn’t it be good if Sammy Szmodics came out on Sunday and said he’d deliberately handballed it and wheeling away in delight at scoring was deceiving the ref. You’d start to get a bit of two way respect.

Here’s an example of VAR giving exactly the same view as the ref:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12827357/ref-watch-good-var-intervention-for-st-mirrens-penalty-vs-celtic

Why didn’t he see it?  Could be simply human error, wasn’t sure, etc…but it would be nice to hear why.  Might’ve just all happened too quick.

David Squires on … the great VAR and refereeing crisis of 2022 | Football | The Guardian

Disagree with mic'd up refs it would be another thing for Nige to beef about when he doesnt get his decisions. Remember he doesnt think refs know football and hes isnt sure that refs know what their doing!!! Maybne its Nige who doesnt know what their doing because he doesnt know the rules. How many refs courses has he done? None? 

Collina masterclass. According to some of the great and the good Collina cant know football as he was a grass roots player!!

 

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

I have articulated my views of referees on a number of threads over the last week. 

My point here had nothing to do with referees, I was attacking your argument that Nige is in some way responsible for the actions of parents in the AYL. 

Your arguments are all fallacies. 

There's probably a logical perspective in their somewhere, although I'm struggling to see it when all you seem capable of doing is twisting people's words to make a point nobody on the thread has made. 

But you do you, Mr Mayor. 

I didnt see your posts. I dont post over a week or read otib that way. I asked a question about this thread. 

the disrespect and coating of at the refs at the top adds to what is going on at the bottom. People see the mobbing off refs and think they can do as they please, refs at grass roots level are getting the same.  Cut this culture out at the top and it would improve the game at every level. If its unacceptable at the top and refs are there to be respected  poor behaviour should not be the culture lower down as well. The pro game is a great influencer isnt it? 

[Three Lions]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is actually supposed to be the case in football too, however its just not enforced for some bizarre reason.

It is not part of the Captains role, or a rule. 

Law 3 - The Players | IFAB (theifab.com)

 The team captain has no special status or privileges, but has a degree of responsibility for the behaviour of their team. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Three Lions

[Cowshed]

23 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

Do you think this is incompetence or the referees doing a good job?

Do you think that is an example of referees displaying incompetence towards solely one football team? 

 

On 24/04/2023 at 17:25, spudski said:

NP is frustrated by the regular inconsistencies and mixed messages when being  explained in-game decisions.

As for respect by players on the pitch, isn't it a reflection of society in general these days? Take away discipline in the home and schools, and consequences for actions...is it any surprise? 

I get the impression NP has lost all respect for the referees and authorities they belong to. 

Constant inconsistency with decisions in games, the whole penalty saga,  inconsistent explanations or no explanations. 

It's probably taken its toll. 

Im not saying either are right. 

 

In  regards to your question. No I do not think it is. Football is a culture to its itself. Psychologically we experience things from football we do not in wider life. What we see in football is an accepted culture. It is accepted that we can criticise and intimidate officials. That we would not behave similarly in our local corner shop. Football the game here is not a parallel to normal life. Football has a culture of not respecting referees hence the respect campaign and those banners displayed around kids football matches. 

You get the impression that NP has lost all respect for refs. All of them? He should be reflecting on what he can control and his non negotiables.

The laws of the game state refs do not have to explain decisions. Their decisions are final. If he does not like this he can lobby the FA, who then can if they see fit to contact IFAB to see if they can accommodate whatever it is Nigel Pearson wants. He may also want to provide his dossier on how Bristol City are being, and only Bristol City are being treated inconsistently consistently. Referee performances are scrutinised, data is cross referenced and these refs who are treating only Bristol City will stick out as statistical anomalies.

If its taking its toll, he should be self reflecting, get Bill Beswick in, one of Mr Beswick's approaches is to use evidence bases to provide clarity, those stats. Evidence combats bias, bias that can cloud judgement and have a negative affect on emotions and decision making.  

23 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

Conspiracy is your word. You can have a mass of decisions go against you without a conspiracy. 
 

in fact, because it’s NOT a conspiracy is the point. It’s a lot of objectively bad decisions that warrant genuine criticism. It’s a separate issue from the abuse of refs driving them from the game. n

You have used mass and a lot, then objectively bad, Being objective how are you measuring this? A mass of bad decisions cannot attach themselves to just one club over differing data. One measurement, or two yes as outliers, but all the games decisions versus a league? No. There there has to be explanation. Rank bad luck wont be it .. Leaving? Conspiracy, their all out to get BCFC? No again.  

PMGOL Professional refs who go through a arduous process to become elite referees according to Mr Pearson do not know what they are doing.  Mr Pearson critique and antipathy towards refs is not objective, its clearly based on opinion and feelings. 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Cowshed

[Davefevs]

Chris Foy re Hugill / Vyner:

“I think that allowing play to continue in this situation, rather than awarding a penalty is the best decision,” said Foy, who served as a top-flight official from 2001-2015. “There is no doubt that the attacking player gets in front of the Bristol City defender, however the defender does not make a challenge and is clearly looking to avoid contact. 

“There is no clear holding or pushing action by the defender and the contact is mainly attributable to the attacker's actions. I don't believe that any contact made by the defending player meets the threshold for a foul to be given.”

[luke_bristol]

59 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Do you think that is an example of referees displaying incompetence towards solely one football team? 

 

In  regards to your question. No I do not think it is. Football is a culture to its itself. Psychologically we experience things from football we do not in wider life. What we see in football is an accepted culture. It is accepted that we can criticise and intimidate officials. That we would not behave similarly in our local corner shop. Football the game here is not a parallel to normal life. Football has a culture of not respecting referees hence the respect campaign and those banners displayed around kids football matches. 

You get the impression that NP has lost all respect for refs. All of them? He should be reflecting on what he can control and his non negotiables.

The laws of the game state refs do not have to explain decisions. Their decisions are final. If he does not like this he can lobby the FA, who then can if they see fit to contact IFAB to see if they can accommodate whatever it is Nigel Pearson wants. He may also want to provide his dossier on how Bristol City are being, and only Bristol City are being treated inconsistently consistently. Referee performances are scrutinised, data is cross referenced and these refs who are treating only Bristol City will stick out as statistical anomalies.

If its taking its toll, he should be self reflecting, get Bill Beswick in, one of Mr Beswick's approaches is to use evidence bases to provide clarity, those stats. Evidence combats bias, bias that can cloud judgement and have a negative affect on emotions and decision making.  

You have used mass and a lot, then objectively bad, Being objective how are you measuring this? A mass of bad decisions cannot attach themselves to just one club over differing data. One measurement, or two yes as outliers, but all the games decisions versus a league? No. There there has to be explanation. Rank bad luck wont be it .. Leaving? Conspiracy, their all out to get BCFC? No again.  

PMGOL Professional refs who go through a arduous process to become elite referees according to Mr Pearson do not know what they are doing.  Mr Pearson critique and antipathy towards refs is not objective, its clearly based on opinion and feelings. 

 

 

 

Answer my question and I’ll answer yours

[elhombrecito]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Chris Foy re Hugill / Vyner:

“I think that allowing play to continue in this situation, rather than awarding a penalty is the best decision,” said Foy, who served as a top-flight official from 2001-2015. “There is no doubt that the attacking player gets in front of the Bristol City defender, however the defender does not make a challenge and is clearly looking to avoid contact. 

“There is no clear holding or pushing action by the defender and the contact is mainly attributable to the attacker's actions. I don't believe that any contact made by the defending player meets the threshold for a foul to be given.”

@TomF is there anything that can be done with the dark mode on here. Whenever anybody pastes something, I can't read anything... Dave's post looks like this for me:

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Now some slippery slope. 

You're a critical thinking case study.

Do you think that the standard of officiating at the pro level is acceptable? What accountability is there for poor performance? Do you think refereeing is a consistent and improving profession? 

 

 

 

Refs are demoted if the fall below appropriate levels. Refereeing as a profession is only attainable by improvement. Refs need to acquire assessed and marked standards x physical tests. Refs at level 3/2a/2b/1 are assessed at evert match.   

To reach the elite level of referee has to display elite levels of refereeing ability.  

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Refs are demoted if the fall below appropriate levels. Refereeing as a profession is only attainable by improvement. Refs need to acquire assessed and marked standards x physical tests. Refs at level 3/2a/2b/1 are assessed at evert match.   

To reach the elite level of referee has to display elite levels of refereeing ability.  

Very good use of the term:

if I was being slightly facetious I’d use the phrase:

”the pick of a bad bunch”

Seems much more apt….imho.

There is so much room for improvement in their performances.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Still no news on VAR being implemented in the Championship?

[Cowshed]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

”the pick of a bad bunch”

Seems much more apt….imho.

There is so much room for improvement in their performances.

If refs do not improve they do not progress through the process to get to what are elite levels. So how does the process create this collective bad bunch? How are you measuring that? 

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

If refs do not improve they do not progress through the process to get to what are elite levels. So how does the process create this collective bad bunch? How are you measuring that? 

I honestly think that the years of abuse they get at a starting level, youth and Sunday mornings, puts loads of potential Refs off.
Smaller pool means less choice. There has to be an elite level, that just means they are the best of what you have to pick from. 
 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

If refs do not improve they do not progress through the process to get to what are elite levels. So how does the process create this collective bad bunch? How are you measuring that? 

By the bad decisions they make.

Progression - based on being better than their peers.  Being better than someone, doesn’t mean you are skilled, or attained mastery, just means you are better than others.  In a high performing team that is great, in a low performing team, it not something to crow about.  To my mind, pro referees in this country are not a high performing team.

If you think that the pro refs we see in PL and EFL are performing to the required level, I think you’ve set the bar too low.  I suspect the PGMOL have too.

All about opinions.  Yours is polar opposite to mine.  Hey ho.