Davefevs Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 From Grimsby owner Jason Stockwood. Sone excellent points made in here. 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 Good article! "Thinking, Fast and Slow" (as mentioned in the article) really is a brilliant book. It changed how I view and approach problems and situations, and opened my eyes to a lot of subconscious behaviors and biases we all have. I thought it was a fascinating read. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Sone excellent points made in here. I've met Stockwood. He's a good guy who has made some money and has bought his boyhood club for the right reasons. I think he's sometimes a little idealistic, but we need a few dreamers don't we. He's certainly looking to run Grimsby sustainably and successfully within his means. His thoughts on confirmation, aversion, loss and results bias are completely accurate and we see them exhibited by fans, managers, players, officials, pundits, and everyone else who ever talks about football. Even St. Nigel of Pearson is prone to them at times. I think our heirarchy is better than some at operating without those biased influences, but it can always improve. Thanks for sharing. Edited June 13, 2023 by ExiledAjax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 Thanks Dave, Stockwood's columns are always an interesting read. I certainly agree that being aware of your own cognitive biases can help you to make better decisions in any walk of life. I take his point that games are played with System 1 thinking but would argue that for the best teams at least the ability to repeat actions automatically is the result of the System 2 thinking that goes into coaching - see Pep for instance. The role of analytics is arguably to inform System 2 thinking and perhaps those who dismiss analytics tend to be System 1 thinkers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, chinapig said: Thanks Dave, Stockwood's columns are always an interesting read. I certainly agree that being aware of your own cognitive biases can help you to make better decisions in any walk of life. I take his point that games are played with System 1 thinking but would argue that for the best teams at least the ability to repeat actions automatically is the result of the System 2 thinking that goes into coaching - see Pep for instance. The role of analytics is arguably to inform System 2 thinking and perhaps those who dismiss analytics tend to be System 1 thinkers. System one is the result of two at any level. Training is the creation of skill. Skill is performed on demand, and is frequently subconscious, its flow state, its unconscious competence. This is an aim of training I's where we attempt to Internalise training by Integrated Intense training. The training becomes internalised to a degree where the brain creates football memories, the more we train the more the memories become permanent and myelination occurs improving the memory and its neural pathways leading to our brain from its training to instantly respond to the football patterns it sees on the pitch, moving our body to relation distances to the ball, the play etc, and the performance of skill. Edited June 13, 2023 by Cowshed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 It's an interesting read and something that fans and public should take on board when understanding how decisions are made. What crosses my mind often when it comes to football club owners making decisions, is what qualifications or experience in running a football club do these owners have, in knowing who the right manager or CEO is to employ? And who's right for your club? As an owner with no experience, how is it possible to make the right decision? Surely as an owner, it would be sensible to employ an ' expert' in the field to make those decisions for you! An owner employs a manager and CEO and they choose the staff to help them...based on their football nouse. So why would an owner with no football experience think they know enough to judge who would be the right manager... It's something I've related to us, our owner and board in the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 48 minutes ago, Cowshed said: System one is the result of two at any level. Training is the creation of skill. Skill is performed on demand, and is frequently subconscious, its flow state, its unconscious competence. This is an aim of training I's where we attempt to Internalise training by Integrated Intense training. The training becomes internalised to a degree where the brain creates football memories, the more we train the more the memories become permanent and myelination occurs improving the memory and its neural pathways leading to our brain from its training to instantly respond to the football patterns it sees on the pitch, moving our body to relation distances to the ball, the play etc, and the performance of skill. Yes, going from conscious incompetence to unconscious competence. As in when you are learning to drive you have to think about your actions (e.g.changing gear) but when you are an experienced driver you perform them automatically without thinking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, chinapig said: Yes, going from conscious incompetence to unconscious competence. As in when you are learning to drive you have to think about your actions (e.g.changing gear) but when you are an experienced driver you perform them automatically without thinking. Driving is a brilliant parallel. Driving is a task humans do over and over again till it become subconscious. Its the parallel my coaching mentor used. Our eyes send information to the brain as they look at the road and its signs. The football pitch is a road with its own signs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, chinapig said: Yes, going from conscious incompetence to unconscious competence. As in when you are learning to drive you have to think about your actions (e.g.changing gear) but when you are an experienced driver you perform them automatically without thinking. It again underlines my view on owners making decisions. Their experience and decision making will be learnt from the business they've run before. In our case...Hargreaves Lansdown. What knowledge from that business, would be judged worthy, in making the right footballing decision on who's the right manager or CEO to run your club? I look at the decision made re Ashton...even after years of running a football club, and experience gained from making poor or good decisions, and learning from those decisions, our owner imo, still made a massive error in his judgement in employing him. As in the article...the Grimsby owner says he won't interfere in the changing room, training ground etc...that's great in principle...but only if you have made the right decision on employing them and your judgement is accurate. Leave someone to their own devises like Ashton, thinking you've made the right decision, you end up in a right mess...surprising when you consider the financial background experience of the owner. As an owner with no experience in making football related decisions on running a club, imo, it makes more sense to employ a DOF that overseas employing manager and CEO for you. Someone with knowledge and experience in doing that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, spudski said: So why would an owner with no football experience think they know enough to judge who would be the right manager... Vanity perhaps as in the belief that because you are expert and successful in one field you will be expert and successful in another. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, spudski said: As in the article...the Grimsby owner says he won't interfere in the changing room, training ground etc...that's great in principle...but only if you have made the right decision on employing them and your judgement is accurate. Well Stockwood made his money with match.com, Skyscanner, and lastminute.com, so he knows a thing or two about matching the right people and planning a good route! 18 minutes ago, chinapig said: when you are an experienced driver you perform them automatically without thinking. You could say it's like learning to ride a bicycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said: Well Stockwood made his money with match.com, Skyscanner, and lastminute.com, so he knows a thing or two about matching the right people and planning a good route! You could say it's like learning to ride a bicycle? Non of them football club related though. Same with Lansdown. Made good decisions in his financial business, but awful imo, at the Club. Who in their right mind would employ a son with no experience what so ever, to make football decisions at board level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, spudski said: Who in their right mind would employ a son with no experience what so ever, to make football decisions at board level? The simple answer, someone like Steve Lansdown, a person who’s pumped millions into a business and wants someone he can trust. The problem is (as we’ve all identified) how do you trust someone who isn’t competent. I’m sure sure JL gave SL complete confidence that everything was fine. Misguided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: The simple answer, someone like Steve Lansdown, a person who’s pumped millions into a business and wants someone he can trust. The problem is (as we’ve all identified) how do you trust someone who isn’t competent. I’m sure sure JL gave SL complete confidence that everything was fine. Misguided. Exactly that...he may trust him to report back honestly what he sees and hears...but how can you trust him to make the right footballing decisions, if he has no experience in that field? Basically all those Millions spent, have been a very expensive long 'University Course' in how to run a football business. Eventually they may have just graduated in recent years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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