England

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

Zero international experience and apart from one or two that is a very debatable list

Won’t get experience unless they play. Half of this list has European experience. 

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Stones would be first choice partner for Maguire but is injured. Tomori, as already discussed, isn't a first ball winner, Guehi played, Ben White won't play for GS again after walking out of camp at Qatar, Gomez plays about as much as Maguire for club (i.e. not much), Dunk probbaly a bit late for him to break into the side now and is he really better? Webster I would say a different defender to Maguire, Mings is injured, Konsa has nowhere near the physical presence of Maguire, Colwill hopefully one for the future, Kilman tried to play for Ukraine and is he much better than Maguire.

Not necessarily saying I agree with all of the above, but I don't see a really obvious alternative to Maguire from GS's perspective.

Henderson is the more puzzling one where we have better options, and he should not be selected after essentially going into semi-retirement in Saudi. 

Agreed on Henderson.  I appreciate my list is debatable but Maguire is a nightmare waiting to happen and is awful on the ball. I’d be more comfortable with many others over him. 

[phantom]

23 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Won’t get experience unless they play. Half of this list has European experience. 

MASSIVE difference, those in Europe are just as error ridden as HM playing in weaker leagues

23 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Agreed on Henderson.  I appreciate my list is debatable but Maguire is a nightmare waiting to happen and is awful on the ball. I’d be more comfortable with many others over him. 

Club level is makes errors, has he been "that bad" for England?

[phantom]

Nice kit this evening 

[97Red]

1 hour ago, The Coach said:

But in football terms. They were…

Also believe if Pep got us to the same state it would be the same viewpoint. Regardless of how we were playing.

And 66 was lightyears ago in comparison. Southgate is the only coach since Sir Alf to get us anywhere near those levels. And actually, if you look at tournament wins, guess who has the most of all time? 

We'll never know with regards to someone like Pep. But, what I'm saying is, I get the the feeling because of Southgate's perceived lack of pedigree, the knives are quick to come out when he gets things wrong. If he had the creditably of someone like Pep, I honestly think there would be a greater level of tolerance and acceptance there that he is the right man for the job.

[Harry]

On 10/09/2023 at 20:33, redkev said:

I agree about Hendo not being in the team for football reasons , you can stick the moral ones where the sun don’t shine I’m sick of football becoming other peoples political and moral tool to push there agendas 

100%. 
I don’t care where he plays his football, he could play on the moon as far as I’m concerned - the reason he shouldn’t be in the team is because he’s not very good any more. 
I don’t give two hoots about the moralistic side of any argument 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You should go on Tenable with Warwick Davis.

 I bumped into him once, with his family at Disney (Star Wars weekend was coming up and he’d been invited).  I’d just come off a ride with the kids to see Mrs chatting to him and his wife re mobility equipment.  As we left them, I asked how come she was chatting to Warwick Davis.  She said “oooh, is that him, I thought he looked familiar”!  

She has form for this.  She did the same with Charlton Heston too!

So, chatting to Warwick Davis about motability scooters. 
What was she chatting to Charlton Heston about? Chariots?? That’s a bit of an upgrade ain’t it

[Harry]

5 hours ago, petehinton said:

What I’ve never quite understood about Southgate outers, is what was expected? Do people really think we should’ve won the Euros and WC back to back?
 

We took it as far as was literally possible without winning it in 2021, and the World Cup last year Kane scores that penalty against France and who knows..

But the only alternative I can think of for those who don’t want him in charge or think he is ‘ruining our chances’, is that we really should’ve won two major tournaments in a row after we’ve gone 56 without winning one. And we should score 5 or 6 goals in every game or something. 

I’ll answer that. 
Yes, we’ve gone deep in tournaments. I’m very happy with that. 
My beef has always been two things : the style of football and the selections. 
 

We’ve got a Man City team which is one of the best we’ve ever seen and we have 4 players playing regularly within that team. Walker, Stones, Foden & Grealish. 

How many times has Southgate selected all 4 of those players in the same starting line up? 
Granted, he played 2 of those regularly, but the other 2 are amongst the most naturally gifted footballers this country has ever produced - and both have been regularly ignored or sidelined. 
If they’re good enough for Pep and an all-conquering Man City, they should be pretty much automatic selections for England. 
 

Add to that the years of tedium at playing BOTH Rice and Henderson (or one of those plus Phillips). A team of our stature doesn’t need to play 2 defensive midfielders. I don’t care what people say about both of them “being able to do a job in advanced positions too”, I don’t care - they are first and foremost defensive players and we are sacrificing naturally gifted exciting players in order to play an extra holding midfielder. 
 

Then there’s Bellingham. Play him where he’s thrived for 3 and a bit seasons at top class continental football, and now at the best club in the world. 
 

We’ve had years of having to suffer Mason Mount. Years of suffering Eric Dier. He’s even played Livermore 6 times (one of the most average footballers the Premier League has ever seen), whilst a gifted Maddison has 3 caps! Lingard has been given 32 caps under Southgate, whilst Foden has started 16!! That’s a travesty. 
Think about that again - Jesse Lingard has more starts under Southgate than both Foden & Maddison combined!!!!  
 

The wealth of attacking talent we currently have at our disposal has been continually cast aside for a ‘safe’ midfield. 
 

So yes, we’ve progressed well in 3 consecutive tournaments, and we may not necessarily have done any better with someone else, but I’d like to at least have seen us try to play with more freedom and expression, verve and panache, and we’re never gonna get that under Gareth. 

Those are some of my reasons anyway. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Harry

[Markthehorn]

Well Maddison and Foden both have had discipline issues (Grealish too )  in the past which maybe has affected their chances but yes guess if you are in the squad now ought to be use more when we need to be more attacking .

Edited September 12, 2023 by Markthehorn

[Harry]

Just now, Markthehorn said:

Well Maddison and Foden both have had discipline issues in the past which maybe has affected their chances but yes guess if you are in the squad now ought to be use more when we need to be more attacking .

So what. 
Does this suggest that Southgate wouldn’t pick George Best if he was available to him? Or Gazza? Or Fat Ronaldo. Etc etc. 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, Harry said:

So, chatting to Warwick Davis about motability scooters. 
What was she chatting to Charlton Heston about? Chariots?? That’s a bit of an upgrade ain’t it

She was on Rodeo Drive (ark at she!) - outside of a friends over-priced clothes shop - and was looking for an ATM.  She approached an old geezer and asked him where the Bank of America was.  He replied sarcastically “it’s right there” pointing to the building next door.  I think he was a bit cheesed off he wasn’t recognised.  Her friend asked, “what were you doing talking to Chuck Heston”, and like with Warwick Davis, she had no clue.

Here’s an ironic photo at Madame Tussaud’s in LA later that holiday!

Her response was, I thought you said he was in planet of the apes!

 

[Markthehorn]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

So what. 
Does this suggest that Southgate wouldn’t pick George Best if he was available to him? Or Gazza? Or Fat Ronaldo. Etc etc. 

Potentially.

Hoddle didn’t pick Gazza for a World Cup of course .

What did the original Ronaldo do?

They are in now so not totally discarded though tbf.

 Obviously just doesn’t fancy Foden - nor has Pep all the time.

Do agree there is no need for 2 defensive midfielders in every game .

Edited September 12, 2023 by Markthehorn

[glynriley]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Zero international experience and apart from one or two that is a very debatable list

Gomez mind...

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

Potentially.

Hoddle didn’t pick Gazza for a World Cup of course .

What did the original Ronaldo do?

They are in now so not totally discarded though tbf.

 Obviously just doesn’t fancy Foden - nor has Pep all the time.

Do agree there is no need for 2 defensive midfielders in every game .

Pretty sure original Ronaldo was very much a party animal. Southgate wouldn’t have liked him. We have a prude in charge. 

[redkev]

5 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Fair enough.  I’ve barely seen him play. I think I could name 10 better centre backs than Maguire though 

Away you go then start naming them 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

 

Dave. I think what you’ve done here is simply name 10 centre backs. 
Not necessarily 10 better than Maguire. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

 

I've always thought Magire was a bit of a **** after the international incident in Mykonos, since then I've kinda thought I'd rather not, and he's not all that good anymore.

[Markthehorn]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

Dave. I think what you’ve done here is simply name 10 centre backs. 
Not necessarily 10 better than Maguire. 

Maguire probably only played due to the fact Stones was injured as the experienced central defender next to a relative new cap.

And has been reliable before for England but yes he needs to be playing at club level .

In previous camps the back ups have been Mings who is now injured and Cody obviously playing at Leicester .

Edited September 12, 2023 by Markthehorn

[Red Army 75]

Come on England. Let’s smash the Jocks . 
  

[Jose]

You only have to listen to him talking about Foden to see how clueless he is. 

[Red Cloud]

Whoever plays, we cannot lose to this lot, never here the end of it - the crappest 0-1 will do I

[Super]

Dunk and Guehi tonight.

[Red Army 75]

 

[1960maaan]

26 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

Whoever plays, we cannot lose to this lot, never here the end of it - the crappest 0-1 will do I

I was in London for the 2-2 , and for a treat and a rest I took the Wife into a Pub for the last 20 minutes.
Not great timing when Scotland went 2-1 late on, one Jock in the Pub doing laps around the bar. I did laugh when Kane equalised in added time mind. 

Got to win by 2 surely. 

[MarcusX]

8 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I think there's a narrative around the England team under Southgate that developed a while ago, in that the default description of any performance is that it was boring unless we were 3-0 up after 15 minutes. 

To be honest, that’s been England for as long as I can remember. We’re either shit or boring and when we win by a large margin it’s “only” whoever we played.

 

5 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes but the figure of 10 was off the top of my head. I’ve just tried it. Got to 11.  As you might be able to tell, I’m really not a fan of Maguire! 

Stones

Tomori

Gueye

White

Gomez

Dunk

Webster

Konsa

Mings

Colwill

Kilman

 

Stones yes, the rest no chance. A couple are a fair debate but the rest absolutely not. Mings ffs?

[redkev]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

To be honest, that’s been England for as long as I can remember. We’re either shit or boring and when we win by a large margin it’s “only” whoever we played.

 

Stones yes, the rest no chance. A couple are a fair debate but the rest absolutely not. Mings ffs?

Well with that list above , I’ll stick with McGuire and stones thanks 

9 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

 

Strange team

[Markthehorn]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

Well with that list above , I’ll stick with McGuire and stones thanks 

Strange team

Said he wasn’t going to make many changes then makes 6..

[MarcusX]

5 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Agreed on Henderson.  I appreciate my list is debatable but Maguire is a nightmare waiting to happen and is awful on the ball. I’d be more comfortable with many others over him. 

Is this a joke?

Hes out of form, and low on confidence for sure but at the peak of his confidence he had some of the best stats for a defender for possession and ball carrying and he’s very good at stepping forwards and playing forward passes.

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/an-analytical-look-at-harry-maguire/

This article is old, granted but to say he is “awful on the ball” is crazy.

[BCFCGav]

Quirky XI but ‘auld enemy’ or not, it’s a friendly, so time to try some things out. Good experience for Dunk and Guehi in a position where we’re a bit thin. Ramsdale has earned minutes. And still plenty of elite talent in Walker, Rice, Bellingham, Rashford, Foden and Kane, so I’m hopeful we’ll do them relatively comfortably.

Edited September 12, 2023 by BCFCGav

[Super]

Looking forward to this tonight certainly a game we don't want to lose. I think we'll edge it by the odd goal but certainly will be a good test.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Super