England

[Northern Red]

Let's be honest, even if England did ever win something, the same people who constantly slag them off would simply find any reason they could why it shouldn't count.

[Wrongagain]

Why so many end of career players selected? At least 4 of our starters would struggle to get a start in the prem!

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Which ‘clueless’ managers are international trophy winners?  

You didn’t say international trophy you just said trophy winners!
And last I checked Southgate hasn’t won shit, probably because he’s clueless and I’m willing to bet he never wins a trophy in his managerial Career at the top level!

[Phileas Fogg]

I find the selection issues immensely frustrating. Especially the dogmatic loyalty to players who've performed for him in the past.

Maguire, Henderson and Phillips shouldn't be anywhere near the team. Maguire and Phillips as they aren't playing regularly, and Henderson's England career should've been over as soon as he moved to Saudi Arabia. 

A 1-1 draw in a fairly meaningless early season international game obviously isn't a disaster in itself, but these selection issues still linger.

Jude Bellingham has started brilliantly in Madrid and there's a genuine possibility I think that one day he could be seen as the world's best player.. Madrid seem to have found a perfect role for him - so why doesn't Southgate play him exactly as they do?!

I feel for the likes of Ward-Prowse, the messaging is completely wrong. A player in his peak starting the season really well at a high level of football not picked.. but a player in the twilight of his career who's moved to Saudi for money is.

I know it's a fairly nuanced debate, but I found Southgate's support of Henderson pretty duplicitous, especially as the team under Southgate have been fairly outspoken on moral issues. For me, if you're going to do that - you have to be consistent. Southgate shouldn't have supported the move. This is a very cynical view, but such a stance starts to look like using such issues for morality brownie points. 

I think Southgate is a good guy, but I just can't see us winning anything under him. I'd love for him to prove me wrong though. 

[Alex_BCFC]

Maguire hasn’t really let england down and I don’t see an abundance of options. Him and Stones have been good together so not sure I’d be changing that right now.

[Sixtyseconds]

16 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

To me the Henderson selection smacks of "I'm in charge" which he is but if you make those decisions and then put in a bang average attacking performance against a side who started out to get a 0-0 draw but was able to make one of their two shots in 90 minutes count then you can't moan when you are under scrutiny for it............and he will be which is completely unnecessary.

Hendo must play.

He is such a great ambassador for the game.

He is such  a role model for team mates and well everybody.

He wants to grow the game around the World.

And he has spent a decade and more growing the game around the World in Sunderland and Liverpool.

Hell he went on loan to Coventry.

Now he is playing in a Saudi Arabian retirement league.

The sacrifices this man has made.

Hendo should be first on the team sheet.

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

You didn’t say international trophy you just said trophy winners!
And last I checked Southgate hasn’t won shit, probably because he’s clueless and I’m willing to bet he never wins a trophy in his managerial Career at the top level!

Still waiting for a name 

[Harry]

I’m in the Southgate out camp and have been for some time 

[tin]

I’m in the “we will win nothing with Southgate” camp as he’s tactically naive and too loyal to certain players. I don’t know who would do a better job, mind.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Still waiting for a name 

Roberto do Matteo for one!

[Alex_BCFC]

1 hour ago, tin said:

I’m in the “we will win nothing with Southgate” camp as he’s tactically naive and too loyal to certain players. I don’t know who would do a better job, mind.

I think plenty would but why would an Eddie Howe for example leave Newcastle. 

I don’t get see why people have to be so polarised about Southgate. He’s done well in some respects and not so well in others. One thing he has been brilliant at is galvanising the players and the fans to have interest in the team again. He’s also had a reasonable tournament record given what came before him.

However my feeling is that in the big moments and games he often gets the tactics wrong (Croatia and Italy). And even when he got them right v France he didn’t have any luck.

I think there would undoubtedly be others who would do better but not sure why they would want the role. The danger is there are some who would want role who would make us worse. 

[And Its Smith]

49 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

Roberto do Matteo for one!

Two major trophies. One major promotion. Clueless managers achieve nothing, not 3 major achievements. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, tin said:

I’m in the “we will win nothing with Southgate” camp as he’s tactically naive and too loyal to certain players. I don’t know who would do a better job, mind.

I think (if insisting on English)

Howe and Potter definitely would.

I hope we don’t insist on an English appointment next time because so many managers would love to manage us. 

 

[Super]

6 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I find the selection issues immensely frustrating. Especially the dogmatic loyalty to players who've performed for him in the past.

Maguire, Henderson and Phillips shouldn't be anywhere near the team. Maguire and Phillips as they aren't playing regularly, and Henderson's England career should've been over as soon as he moved to Saudi Arabia. 

A 1-1 draw in a fairly meaningless early season international game obviously isn't a disaster in itself, but these selection issues still linger.

Jude Bellingham has started brilliantly in Madrid and there's a genuine possibility I think that one day he could be seen as the world's best player.. Madrid seem to have found a perfect role for him - so why doesn't Southgate play him exactly as they do?!

I feel for the likes of Ward-Prowse, the messaging is completely wrong. A player in his peak starting the season really well at a high level of football not picked.. but a player in the twilight of his career who's moved to Saudi for money is.

I know it's a fairly nuanced debate, but I found Southgate's support of Henderson pretty duplicitous, especially as the team under Southgate have been fairly outspoken on moral issues. For me, if you're going to do that - you have to be consistent. Southgate shouldn't have supported the move. This is a very cynical view, but such a stance starts to look like using such issues for morality brownie points. 

I think Southgate is a good guy, but I just can't see us winning anything under him. I'd love for him to prove me wrong though. 

I like JWP but always felt he isn't top quality hence why no big teams wanted him.

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

I’m in the Southgate out camp and have been for some time 

Before or after the euro final? I remember clearly the utter crushing disappointment of 2002, 2006, 2008.... we had quality players in those years too and did nothing. Southgate has given us a few knockout wins - that already puts him far ahead of every manager we've had since Ramsey and Robson. 

The talk of Guardiola is interesting of course. But if we did try that with Capello and didn't win anything. 

Henderson shouldn't be anywhere near the team now though. For footballing reasons and moral ones

Edited September 10, 2023 by Bas's perfect hattrick

[Maltshoveller]

18 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

England would win a World Cup managed by Eddie Howe. There, I said it. 

Is that the same Eddie Howe who some how got a really talented Bournemouth team relegated  

Biggest fraud in English football 

Only in my opinion 

 

[maxjak]

6 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Hendo must play.

He is such a great ambassador for the game.

He is such  a role model for team mates and well everybody.

He wants to grow the game around the World.

And he has spent a decade and more growing the game around the World in Sunderland and Liverpool.

Hell he went on loan to Coventry.

Now he is playing in a Saudi Arabian retirement league.

The sacrifices this man has made.

Hendo should be first on the team sheet.

Just goes to show that you don't particularly need any intelligence to progress financially in the world?   Just sporting ability, and a first class honours degree in Hypocrisy?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Super said:

I like JWP but always felt he isn't top quality hence why no big teams wanted him.

No he probably isn’t but he plays that role of unglamorous midfielder very well. Very good at set pieces.

Top teams don’t necessarily have world class individual players in every single position anyway, but have players who play their role very effectively.(Rabiot for France or De Paul for Argentina for example). These players allow the world class attacking talent (Mbappe/Messi/Kane/Bellingham etc) to shine. I feel JWP is one of those.

Regardless, Henderson being selected over him is ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Maltshoveller said:

Is that the same Eddie Howe who some how got a really talented Bournemouth team relegated  

Biggest fraud in English football 

Only in my opinion 

 

I used to think he was overrated, but was impressed with what he did with Newcastle last season. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Phileas Fogg

[tin]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think (if insisting on English)

Howe and Potter definitely would.

I hope we don’t insist on an English appointment next time because so many managers would love to manage us. 

 

I can’t see Howe leaving Newcastle any time soon, and can Potter command the respect of the very best players? He’s got a lot to prove and I’m not so sure. 

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Two major trophies. One major promotion. Clueless managers achieve nothing, not 3 major achievements. 

Steven Gerrard 

[redkev]

2 hours ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Before or after the euro final? I remember clearly the utter crushing disappointment of 2002, 2006, 2008.... we had quality players in those years too and did nothing. Southgate has given us a few knockout wins - that already puts him far ahead of every manager we've had since Ramsey and Robson. 

The talk of Guardiola is interesting of course. But if we did try that with Capello and didn't win anything. 

Henderson shouldn't be anywhere near the team now though. For footballing reasons and moral ones

I agree about Hendo not being in the team for football reasons , you can stick the moral ones where the sun don’t shine I’m sick of football becoming other peoples political and moral tool to push there agendas 

[Sixtyseconds]

22 minutes ago, redkev said:

I agree about Hendo not being in the team for football reasons , you can stick the moral ones where the sun don’t shine I’m sick of football becoming other peoples political and moral tool to push there agendas 

Agreed.

Bending the knee and rainbows are so last year.

Its all about putting your head in the sand by playing in lands of sand now.

 

[Show Me The Money!]

12 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

You didn’t say international trophy you just said trophy winners!
And last I checked Southgate hasn’t won shit, probably because he’s clueless and I’m willing to bet he never wins a trophy in his managerial Career at the top level!

So which non-clueless realistic coach should we be employing?

 

[Show Me The Money!]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think (if insisting on English)

Howe and Potter definitely would.

I hope we don’t insist on an English appointment next time because so many managers would love to manage us. 

 

Why would Howe and Potter definitely do better than Southgate?

 

[Super]

12 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Why would Howe and Potter definitely do better than Southgate?

 

Exactly. Hardly serial winners are they.

[Phileas Fogg]

12 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Why would Howe and Potter definitely do better than Southgate?

 

Impossible to say anyone would *definitely* do better than Southgate. I think though, if we're insisting on an English coach, those are the two stand-out options.

I know people will cite Potter's time at Chelsea, but I think that was clearly an anomaly. I don't think many managers would achieve what they expect given how that club is being run.

My choice would be to not limit ourselves to a purely English coach. 

[Markthehorn]

29 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Impossible to say anyone would *definitely* do better than Southgate. I think though, if we're insisting on an English coach, those are the two stand-out options.

I know people will cite Potter's time at Chelsea, but I think that was clearly an anomaly. I don't think many managers would achieve what they expect given how that club is being run.

My choice would be to not limit ourselves to a purely English coach. 

The media will probably demand an Englishman but guess someone like Pep would be attractive.

[Kid in the Riot]

49 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

My choice would be to not limit ourselves to a purely English coach. 

Whilst I don't think we should limit ourselves, my strong preference would be for an English coach. 

18 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

The media will probably demand an Englishman but guess someone like Pep would be attractive.

I don't think Pep, with his wildly complicated training methods and tactics and general obsessiveness over every detail, would be well-suited to managing internationally, where time on the training ground is so limited. 

International management requires a different approach and skillset to club management, and I actually think England have stumbled on someone in Southgate who is actually very well suited to that role. 

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

International management requires a different approach and skillset to club management, and I actually think England have stumbled on someone in Southgate who is actually very well suited to that role. 

That’s my view too.  His Player / Squad selection is quite club-like, but playing wise you just have to go with what you have, there’s little training time per se.

[luke_bristol]

Ukraine game was a little disappointing, but I don’t have a problem with GS overall, his record speaks for itself.

I do think it’s time to move past Henderson and Maguire, but understand his reluctance.

The Italy draw was very welcome, as we’re now better off then we were last week as Italy have fewer games to make up the points gap. I’m sure we’ll top the group.