Forget new deals for players….get Nigel signed up now!

[MarcusX]

6 hours ago, Negan said:

I’m very much let him have this season and move on. Done a great job but think it’s better, providing the club get it right (if you trust them too) to have a fresh approach and a better style of play. He’s been here a while now and imo the football is still rather poor/boring. Deserves this season but I’d like to see someone else taking charge next season, but that’s just me 

You’ve not been to an away game this season I assume?

[Fordy62]

3 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Huge hypothetical question here. SL is a huge Mark Robins fan, I think that’s been clear. So, if you had the option of extending Pearson contract, or Mark Robins next season with a £25m war chest. What would you choose? 

I’ll answer you…

You’ve picked my kryptonite in Robins here. I’ve been calling out for him for years, however the 25m but is hardly realistic. 

I definitely wouldn’t change now though. Better the devil you know. Although were Nige to choose to leave, I’d give my right arm for Robins - although not exactly likely. 

[cidered abroad]

Nigel Pearson without any doubt in my mind.

But probably not SL's.

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I’ll answer you…

You’ve picked my kryptonite in Robins here. I’ve been calling out for him for years, however the 25m but is hardly realistic. 

I definitely wouldn’t change now though. Better the devil you know. Although were Nige to choose to leave, I’d give my right arm for Robins - although not exactly likely. 

I wanted us to bring him in but the majority didn’t want him because he was with a small unfashionable club. 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I’ll answer you…

You’ve picked my kryptonite in Robins here. I’ve been calling out for him for years, however the 25m but is hardly realistic. 

I definitely wouldn’t change now though. Better the devil you know. Although were Nige to choose to leave, I’d give my right arm for Robins - although not exactly likely. 

I always feel that the next disaster for Coventry is just around the corner for some reason - I don`t know why, they just seem a very unlucky club and would MR stay if something did happen again?

[Red Cloud]

Would hate to see Nige go but IF it happens, Mark Robbins for me

[CliftonCliff]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

True but that doesn't negate the various failures.

Might is the key would here. If the consensus is that it is working pretty well why take the risk when change equally might not work?

Agreed.

It's much easier to demotivate people than it is to motivate them. If a new man has very different values the culture can be quickly dismantled. I have vivid memories of working for an inspirational CEO who was followed by a positively vicious one. Morale and performance plummeted until she was quietly shown the door.

Culture has been a problem for the club for many of the years I have been a supporter. I don't see the need to risk regression.

Absolutely one hundred per cent spot on. But quite a lot of people don’t appear to understand what you’re referring to.

Compare it, if you like, with the England setup. Gareth Southgate is a man of considerable personal integrity, for whom I have a good deal of respect. Without getting too carried away, there are certain parallels. You don’t, as a rule, get players now who seem indifferent about whether they play for their country or not. Not so many, if any, late withdrawals with suspect “injuries”, and the young men who play for the national team seem to conduct themselves in a much more restrained and respectful manner. They are very committed. You don’t often hear it mentioned, but actually it’s a huge cultural shift. Not many John Terry types around nowadays. Phil Foden got into bad company, and got sent home with Mason Greenwood a few years back. He won’t make that mistake again. And at Ashton Gate, no more Marley Watkins hiding away from training, either, or Bakinson strolling around like he’s on a frigging nature ramble.

I’m rambling myself a bit now, but I kind of see Nige as City’s Southgate. Just watch what happens if he goes. And I wouldn’t put it past SL. I don’t weigh in when people are having a pop at the owner, because he’s done a huge amount for the club. Established Championship status, massive stadium upgrade: I doubt those things would would have happened without him. He understands finance, and land, and buildings, and business development, and, and, and… But he doesn’t get people (or football, either, sometimes). We have a diamond in Pearson. He’s a very unusual guy, as football managers go, and in the immortal words of Joni Mitchell, you don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone. 
 

I’ve had too much wine. I hate to think what the response will be when I wake up in the morning with a headache and log on. But maybe someone will get what I’m driving at.  Good night all. Over and out.

[CliftonCliff]

3 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Just started reading this thread and this is as far as I got. You just ruined my Sunday. Going to log off now, sit in the sun in the garden with a glass of wine, and try to eradicate that thought from my mind. And I'd been in such a good mood all weekend after yesterday's result, up until that point. Killjoy. 

And by the way, I’ve forgiven you now, after a few sherbets, but please don’t go upsetting me like that again. 
 

(Nathan Jones is an odious bastard, isn’t he? And the total antithesis of NP.)

[Sir Geoff]

6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Huge hypothetical question here. SL is a huge Mark Robins fan, I think that’s been clear. So, if you had the option of extending Pearson contract, or Mark Robins next season with a £25m war chest. What would you choose? 

Totally hypothetical seeing that Robin's has a contract until 2027.

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Totally hypothetical seeing that Robin's has a contract until 2027.

Good.

[Tim Monaghan]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Totally hypothetical seeing that Robin's has a contract until 2027.

That’s why I said hypothetical. Plus, I’ve never heard of anyone moving who was under contract. 

[REDOXO]

Nigel Pearson is one of two possibly three managers that has had a clue since AD. 

If he wants it, they should nail him down asap. However I’m not convinced he does. Guess we will see. 

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

We should never ever make the Fawthrop, Tinnion, Millen and Holden mistake again…….but this is SL so wouldn’t surprise me. 

I should’ve said that Euell would like a hot seat, not necessarily our hot seat.

6 hours ago, paul_fox said:

I've not seen too much of him interview wise but never thought he had the character to be a manager. He's a pretty quiet reserved guy isn't he? Nothing against it as I am. 

 

He left Charlton because he was pissed off he didn’t get the job there after being caretaker.

4 hours ago, mozo said:

Some wild conjecture there Dave. How can we say that Nige has a better balance than any other manager? 

That's interesting. I'd like Curtis to get a go. He's fascinated by football, seriously motivated, and there's something about him that if he talks, you listen. 

No, it’s not.  Because Nige has said lots of things about switching off, not watching football.  There have been 2 or 3 interviews recently in the nationals.  And plenty of other managers talk about being 24/7…and seem proud of it.  God knows why.

So not really conjecture….based on what managers have said.

[Grey Fox]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I've long thought he should have a 2-3 year deal on the table. Job he's done, progress we are making.

Now with the improved financial position he should be able to have room for say 3 more players in and I don't mean ones for the future worth positive though that can be.

But that is not what we do, but it is why imo, Pearson will not sign a new contract, and will leave at the en£ of this season.

Why , with the current regime / ethos would he stay ?

Which is all very sad, as I believe he is an excellent manager, who with the right backing could take us up, with the current support he gets, he can only keep us up.

[Superjack]

10 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

But that is not what we do, but it is why imo, Pearson will not sign a new contract, and will leave at the en£ of this season.

Why , with the current regime / ethos would he stay ?

Which is all very sad, as I believe he is an excellent manager, who with the right backing could take us up, with the current support he gets, he can only keep us up.

It's pretty heartbreaking, to be honest.

[glynriley]

8 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Huge hypothetical question here. SL is a huge Mark Robins fan, I think that’s been clear. So, if you had the option of extending Pearson contract, or Mark Robins next season with a £25m war chest. What would you choose? 

Pearson, all day long. 
Why does the hypothetical manager get the war chest? Give it to NP. 

[bpexile]

10 hours ago, The Bard said:

What is a 'progressive' manager ? Someone 'on the up'?  Like LJ was or Russell Martin or any line of bluffers we could mention.

You know our owner isn't capable of separating the wheat from the chaff in this regard?

Someone proven or safe is what he should stick to and we already have one.

Totally agree, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

[W-S-M Seagull]

13 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Huge hypothetical question here. SL is a huge Mark Robins fan, I think that’s been clear. So, if you had the option of extending Pearson contract, or Mark Robins next season with a £25m war chest. What would you choose? 

He's had 25 million to spend this season and the jury is very much out. 

He may be one of those managers who gets the best out of lesser players and fails when they have money to spend. 

[LondonBristolian]

16 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I’ll answer you…

You’ve picked my kryptonite in Robins here. I’ve been calling out for him for years, however the 25m but is hardly realistic. 

I definitely wouldn’t change now though. Better the devil you know. Although were Nige to choose to leave, I’d give my right arm for Robins - although not exactly likely. 

This is my sentiment. Robins would be right at the top of my list of choices of replacements but I'd not be looking to replace.

My take is that I think people can very easily overstate and over-romanticise the value of change over consistency. There's obviously points where you do need to make a change in management and you get to a point with some managers - even good ones - where it becomes clear they've run their course. Gary Johnson did a brilliant job but reached a point where he was confounded by too many options at his disposal and had lost touch with how he wanted to play. Cotterill's relationship with the board had obviously sapped his enthusiasm for the job and Lee Johnson, whilst never brilliant, had clearly lost sense of a strategy or system in his last season and it was obvious his time was up.

Whilst you never know what is going to happen by the end of the season, I don't feel that at all with Pearson. I feel he knows the players and - even if he was frustrated by some of our transfer policy - he's brought in the types of player he wants. He seems to have a clear direction he's taking the club in and my sense is he still has a hunger and enthusiasm for it. I'd certainly argue the squad needs two or three players added to it but there's very few, if any, I'd actively get rid of and the roots are there for a strong side. If Pearson wanted to carry on, I don't see any good reason to make a change. 

[Shauntaylor85]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He's had 25 million to spend this season and the jury is very much out. 

He may be one of those managers who gets the best out of lesser players and fails when they have money to spend. 

I don’t rate Robins, one club man and hit and miss. He has splashed out on JD and Kasey Palmer. No thanks. 

[Shauntaylor85]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

This is my sentiment. Robins would be right at the top of my list of choices of replacements but I'd not be looking to replace.

My take is that I think people can very easily overstate and over-romanticise the value of change over consistency. There's obviously points where you do need to make a change in management and you get to a point with some managers - even good ones - where it becomes clear they've run their course. Gary Johnson did a brilliant job but reached a point where he was confounded by too many options at his disposal and had lost touch with how he wanted to play. Cotterill's relationship with the board had obviously sapped his enthusiasm for the job and Lee Johnson, whilst never brilliant, had clearly lost sense of a strategy or system in his last season and it was obvious his time was up.

Whilst you never know what is going to happen by the end of the season, I don't feel that at all with Pearson. I feel he knows the players and - even if he was frustrated by some of our transfer policy - he's brought in the types of player he wants. He seems to have a clear direction he's taking the club in and my sense is he still has a hunger and enthusiasm for it. I'd certainly argue the squad needs two or three players added to it but there's very few, if any, I'd actively get rid of and the roots are there for a strong side. If Pearson wanted to carry on, I don't see any good reason to make a change. 

Gary Johnson’s team achieved the most but we were very lucky with backs to wall performances (remember Sheff Wed away) and even our promotion side was average, we were never great to watch under Gary but he got results. Proved however what a limited coach he was once we backed him, a bit like his son. There is a reason why bigger clubs than us didn’t go for either. 

[LondonBristolian]

54 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Gary Johnson’s team achieved the most but we were very lucky with backs to wall performances (remember Sheff Wed away) and even our promotion side was average, we were never great to watch under Gary but he got results. Proved however what a limited coach he was once we backed him, a bit like his son. There is a reason why bigger clubs than us didn’t go for either. 

I agree to an extent but I don't think it was exactly luck. He built a first team that was an incredibly tight unit with a fantastic team spirt and which made every player the sum of his parts. We won with backs to the wall performances but that's exactly what he set us up to do. I think it shows in the careers of the subsequent players too. Marvin Elliott looked like a low-budget Kante in the team but never hit the heights again. I don't think Carey and McCombe could have been top six defenders in other side and Lee Johnson, for all the criticism he gets, was 100% the right midfielder for that system which emphasised his strengths and reduced his limitations. Ironically given Lansdown's recent comments, that team is probably a closer comparison to Luton Town than any other team that has reached a play-off final since. 

As you say, the problem was that GJ's skill was getting the most out of a tight-knit group of underdogs and his skills didn't translate to managing larger squad numbers or getting the best out of players who didn't see themselves as underdogs. The result of our near-success that season was that we could afford to move away from the very things that got us to that point. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by LondonBristolian

[RedorDead BCFC]

I’m interested to know, who said they are not talking about contracts at this point.

Can’t see it’s anything that either would mention if they was talking about extending contracts 

[ashton_fan]

It would be interesting to see a foreign coach here for a different perspective, nearly every other Championship club has, obviously one with a track record at this level.

It's interesting how these "keep Nige" threads pop up on OTIB after a win, whereas if we lose the next home game it will be more like "we need a change". I think he's done well in most areas but we've still never come close to finishing in the top half due to mostly poor results at home, I know that there have been financial constraints but would have thought by now we should have developed a style of play giving some better home performances, other coaches at clubs with limited resources have managed to do that. I'd certainly give him this season to prove me wrong but I'm not too optimistic, think we're heading for mid-table at best.

[Simon bristol]

On 03/09/2023 at 14:05, Davefevs said:

I think the ones with ambition to be in the hot seat is Jason Euell.

I wouldn’t be surprised if king had an interest too?!

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if king had an interest too?!

Oh, yeah, totally, was just calling out Euell of the three main coaches (Euell, Flem and Pat).

[ExiledAjax]

22 hours ago, chinapig said:

True but that doesn't negate the various failures.

Might is the key would here. If the consensus is that it is working pretty well why take the risk when change equally might not work?

Agreed.

It's much easier to demotivate people than it is to motivate them. If a new man has very different values the culture can be quickly dismantled. I have vivid memories of working for an inspirational CEO who was followed by a positively vicious one. Morale and performance plummeted until she was quietly shown the door.

Culture has been a problem for the club for many of the years I have been a supporter. I don't see the need to risk regression.

It's true what you say and I'll add a few things.

Number one is that I understand the "better the devil you know" / "don't change for the sake of it" argument. What I am saying, and I think I've been consistent with this, is that I don't currently see any indication that Pearson's contract will be extended. That means a new manager. My position is I don't think that will be awful, and if we plan it properly could even be advantageous.

I think Pearson has done well. He's managed and improved the team under financial constraints imposed upon him. I don't give him the credit some do for "saving us" from FFP oblivion. That credit goes to Richard Gould and the nameless heroes of the finance team and our accountants. Pearson isn't an accountant and in the last week's has absolutely confirmed that he has no control over the budget. So he managed us well, but it wasn't him that saved us.

I also don't really buy this "great man manager" line. He seems to be good at man managing those who are already on board "the bus". Anyone truly difficult or different he lets go. So he's good at selecting people who are then well suited to his management. A different thing to being a "great man manager". He does, to an extent, surround himself with "yes" men.

My overarching point is that he's not perfect, and he's not a saint, and there is a possibility that there are better people around the corner who might do a better job than him and his team. You don't want to risk regression but in doing so are you not risking staleness, routine, and a culture that becomes tedious and uninspiring?

It's an impossible question to answer in many ways, so I don't think this debate really has an end.

Edited September 4, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Gary Johnson’s team achieved the most but we were very lucky with backs to wall performances (remember Sheff Wed away) and even our promotion side was average, we were never great to watch under Gary but he got results. Proved however what a limited coach he was once we backed him, a bit like his son. There is a reason why bigger clubs than us didn’t go for either. 

I consider Robins to be in the same sort of bracket as GJ. Maybe slightly better but still in that bracket. Coventry are at their best when their backs are against the wall. They are capable of getting points even when they shouldn't. But I think in football, that luck generally runs out. 

Giving the likes of JD a 4 year contract is utter madness in my opinion. 

[chinapig]

39 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's true what you say and I'll add a few things.

Number one is that I understand the "better the devil you know" / "don't change for the sake of it" argument. What I am saying, and I think I've been consistent with this, is that I don't currently see any indication that Pearson's contract will be extended. That means a new manager. My position is I don't think that will be awful, and if we plan it properly could even be advantageous.

Agreed, it's the if that bothers me given past experience.

I think Pearson has done well. He's managed and improved the team under financial constraints imposed upon him. I don't give him the credit some do for "saving us" from FFP oblivion. That credit goes to Richard Gould and the nameless heroes of the finance team and our accountants. Pearson isn't an accountant and in the last week's has absolutely confirmed that he has no control over the budget. So he managed us well, but it wasn't him that saved us.

I agree on Gould. We were lucky to have a man of his quality at a critical time. In the long term I would rather have kept him than Nigel even.

However he was keen at the fans forum to give Nigel his share of the credit. It would have been less likely to succeed if he and Richard had not been singing from the same hymn sheet. Not many managers want to take on such a task because, as Nigel himself said, they might not be the one who reaps the rewards.

I also don't really buy this "great man manager" line. He seems to be good at man managing those who are already on board "the bus". Anyone truly difficult or different he lets go. So he's good at selecting people who are then well suited to his management. A different thing to being a "great man manager". He does, to an extent, surround himself with "yes" men.

I'm not sure that isn't true of any manager. You set and communicate your expectations and ask people to follow them. If they do he stands by them at difficult times (as he did with Sam Bell last week). You don't necessarily bin off a player who doesn't first off (he gave Bakinson a second chance for instance) but ultimately you don't want somebody poisoning the well as they say.

My overarching point is that he's not perfect, and he's not a saint, and there is a possibility that there are better people around the corner who might do a better job than him and his team. You don't want to risk regression but in doing so are you not risking staleness, routine, and a culture that becomes tedious and uninspiring?

He's not the messiah but he isn't a naughty boy either.

Agreed staleness is a risk and at some point you need to refresh things. Whether now is the time is a moot point.

It's an impossible question to answer in many ways, so I don't think this debate really has an end.

Quite but we should probably stop our own debate here!

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's true what you say and I'll add a few things.

Number one is that I understand the "better the devil you know" / "don't change for the sake of it" argument. What I am saying, and I think I've been consistent with this, is that I don't currently see any indication that Pearson's contract will be extended.

you have indeed!

That means a new manager. My position is I don't think that will be awful, and if we plan it properly could even be advantageous.

Playing Devil’s advocate, what kind of things would go into planning properly to ensure success (as much as it can be ensured)?

I think Pearson has done well. He's managed and improved the team under financial constraints imposed upon him. I don't give him the credit some do for "saving us" from FFP oblivion. That credit goes to Richard Gould and the nameless heroes of the finance team and our accountants. Pearson isn't an accountant and in the last week's has absolutely confirmed that he has no control over the budget. So he managed us well, but it wasn't him that saved us.

the flipside to this is do you think “another” manager would’ve come and backed themselves to keep us in this division knowing he was gonna have to get rid of many players and be really restricted in terms of who he could bring in to shape the squad?

It’s no point the bean counters developing a plan without the manager on board…and it’s been clear in those early months and first season interviews (SL included), that Nige played a big part in developing that early strategic approach.

Imho, Nige had the balls to come in and try to get us going.  I honestly believe lots would not have touched us with a barge pole!

I don’t say “he saved us from FFP” either, but his acceptance to lose players from the squad, is key to the implementation.

I also don't really buy this "great man manager" line. He seems to be good at man managing those who are already on board "the bus". Anyone truly difficult or different he lets go. So he's good at selecting people who are then well suited to his management. A different thing to being a "great man manager". He does, to an extent, surround himself with "yes" men.

I don’t believe Fleming or Euell are yes men at all.  He wants skilled people around him, those who challenge him, not say yes.

Re letting players go…only after giving them several chances.  At some point you have you say “eff off”!

My overarching point is that he's not perfect, and he's not a saint, and there is a possibility that there are better people around the corner who might do a better job than him and his team. You don't want to risk regression but in doing so are you not risking staleness, routine, and a culture that becomes tedious and uninspiring?

That just sounds like a bunch of words put to gather to justify your feeling that he won’t get a contract.  That’s fine, it’s your opinion.

I could easily write the reverse though.  “Not extending him might risk improvement, continued growth of a culture that allows new players to integrate quickly…inspired by the continuation that a stable background brings”.

Not saying I don’t do the same though!

It's an impossible question to answer in many ways, so I don't think this debate really has an end.

my thoughts.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Davefevs