Popular Post handsofclay Posted September 3, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 On Friday it was reported on Radio 5 Live that Luton Town were about to host their first Premier League game in their 138 year history. Wow that was really something...although under closer inspection not quite so astounding seeing that the Premier League didn't exist for the first 107 years of their history and that Luton played plenty of games in the top flight prior to that. Yesterday, Evan Ferguson scored a hat-trick for Brighton, one of only four players to score hat-tricks in Premier League history while still a teenager. This is all very well and to be commended but it completely overlooks the feats of other players, some still alive, who scored hat-tricks while still a teenager in the top flight prior to the inception of the Premier League. Our own Kevin Mabbutt, for instance, v Manchester United in 1978. (This feat was again overlooked when Mo Salah scored a hat-trick at Old Trafford and was lauded as the only player to score three at The Theatre of Dreams against Man Utd in Prem history...although Dennis Bailey of QPR was mentioned as that occurred the season before the Premier League started.) I know I am preaching, for the most part, to the converted, but I feel the media with their stance denigrates the achievements of all footballers and teams prior to the 1992-93 season. To my mind all that the formation of the Premier League did was enable the top flight clubs to be greedy. There was absolutely no difference in standards etc between the last Division One season and the first Premier League season that followed it. In the days of the old First Division European Champions were still produced and England actually won the World Cup. Yet the feats of these players who played in the top flight then seem to have been airbrushed from history as it wasn't the Premier League. 50 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 I’d love to give you a like here but think several people have made this point before, and therefore doing so would ignore the history of the forum and indicate anything raised on this issue prior to today never happened. Tough decision. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 I agree. Best to regard the name Premier League as pure rebranding - so when they spout these facts, just regard it as since it was renamed and you’ll feel much better! It’s why I have no time for comments saying we’ve never been in the Premier League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, eardun said: I agree. Best to regard the name Premier League as pure rebranding - so when they spout these facts, just regard it as since it was renamed and you’ll feel much better! It’s why I have no time for comments saying we’ve never been in the Premier League. In exactly the same way as we have never won the Papa Johns Trophy, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 Jimmy Greaves must turn in his grave every time Shearer is lauded as the all time premier league top goal scorer. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, downendcity said: Jimmy Greaves must turn in his grave every time Shearer is lauded as the all time premier league top goal scorer. If footballers only played the same number of games now as the likes of Greaves and Charlton did all those years ago then these "records" would be alot rarer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinMan's left peg Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 hours ago, handsofclay said: On Friday it was reported on Radio 5 Live that Luton Town were about to host their first Premier League game in their 138 year history. Wow that was really something...although under closer inspection not quite so astounding seeing that the Premier League didn't exist for the first 107 years of their history and that Luton played plenty of games in the top flight prior to that. Yesterday, Evan Ferguson scored a hat-trick for Brighton, one of only four players to score hat-tricks in Premier League history while still a teenager. This is all very well and to be commended but it completely overlooks the feats of other players, some still alive, who scored hat-tricks while still a teenager in the top flight prior to the inception of the Premier League. Our own Kevin Mabbutt, for instance, v Manchester United in 1978. (This feat was again overlooked when Mo Salah scored a hat-trick at Old Trafford and was lauded as the only player to score three at The Theatre of Dreams against Man Utd in Prem history...although Dennis Bailey of QPR was mentioned as that occurred the season before the Premier League started.) I know I am preaching, for the most part, to the converted, but I feel the media with their stance denigrates the achievements of all footballers and teams prior to the 1992-93 season. To my mind all that the formation of the Premier League did was enable the top flight clubs to be greedy. There was absolutely no difference in standards etc between the last Division One season and the first Premier League season that followed it. In the days of the old First Division European Champions were still produced and England actually won the World Cup. Yet the feats of these players who played in the top flight then seem to have been airbrushed from history as it wasn't the Premier League. Totally agree. This winds me up no end. It’s also stupid , why ignore 100+ years of history and make your sport look like some sort of recent American franchise. I wonder if there is a fans campaign to get the bbc / sky etc to stop doing it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Midred said: If footballers only played the same number of games now as the likes of Greaves and Charlton did all those years ago then these "records" would be a lot rarer! .... and if today's players "enjoyed" playing on muddy ploughed fields for half a season, and being subject to the type of tackling that was allowed in Greaves' time, with little to no protection from referees, many would only play for half a season, let alone manage nothing like the goals they do today. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 It's common for records to be grouped into smaller/more recent increments to give it some context i.e. last 5 years, 10 years, since the Premier League began, post-war, etc. Not sure why so many people get upset about it. 2 hours ago, downendcity said: .... and if today's players "enjoyed" playing on muddy ploughed fields for half a season, and being subject to the type of tackling that was allowed in Greaves' time, with little to no protection from referees, many would only play for half a season, let alone manage nothing like the goals they do today. To be fair, if todays strikers got to shoot against the goalies of that time, they'd all get 50 a year easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 I wouldn’t say it upsets me as that would suggest it bothers me more than it does, but I do find it a bit silly to talk about the Premier League as if it’s not the same division - whilst talking about how many Champions League trophies Liverpool (for example) have and counting European cup wins. That’s a completely different competition now. Also, if we’re referring to rebranding, it was the Premiership for a while wasn’t it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 One saving grace is that if a club were to be the first to plummet from the first division to the fourth in three seasons in the pre-premier league days it wouldn`t count any more. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, grifty said: It's common for records to be grouped into smaller/more recent increments to give it some context i.e. last 5 years, 10 years, since the Premier League began, post-war, etc. Not sure why so many people get upset about it. To be fair, if todays strikers got to shoot against the goalies of that time, they'd all get 50 a year easily. ...but they wouldn't be hitting today's high tech balls, wearing high tech boots and playing on billiard table pitches. Also back then, today's strikers would not have a fitness and nutrition regime to keep them at their peak, they would probably be smokers and drinkers and the same would apply to today's goalies, were they playing back in the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 hours ago, handsofclay said: On Friday it was reported on Radio 5 Live that Luton Town were about to host their first Premier League game in their 138 year history. Wow that was really something...although under closer inspection not quite so astounding seeing that the Premier League didn't exist for the first 107 years of their history and that Luton played plenty of games in the top flight prior to that. Yesterday, Evan Ferguson scored a hat-trick for Brighton, one of only four players to score hat-tricks in Premier League history while still a teenager. This is all very well and to be commended but it completely overlooks the feats of other players, some still alive, who scored hat-tricks while still a teenager in the top flight prior to the inception of the Premier League. Our own Kevin Mabbutt, for instance, v Manchester United in 1978. (This feat was again overlooked when Mo Salah scored a hat-trick at Old Trafford and was lauded as the only player to score three at The Theatre of Dreams against Man Utd in Prem history...although Dennis Bailey of QPR was mentioned as that occurred the season before the Premier League started.) I know I am preaching, for the most part, to the converted, but I feel the media with their stance denigrates the achievements of all footballers and teams prior to the 1992-93 season. To my mind all that the formation of the Premier League did was enable the top flight clubs to be greedy. There was absolutely no difference in standards etc between the last Division One season and the first Premier League season that followed it. In the days of the old First Division European Champions were still produced and England actually won the World Cup. Yet the feats of these players who played in the top flight then seem to have been airbrushed from history as it wasn't the Premier League. thats the real issue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, grifty said: It's common for records to be grouped into smaller/more recent increments to give it some context i.e. last 5 years, 10 years, since the Premier League began, post-war, etc. Not sure why so many people get upset about it. To be fair, if todays strikers got to shoot against the goalies of that time, they'd all get 50 a year easily. What do you think was particularly wrong with goalkeepers back in the day? Do you suppose Pickford is better than Gordon Banks was, for example? I appreciate some are now very big and no doubt fitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 Proper football didnt start until 1992 If any one on here thinks different then you know nothing about the once beautiful game If you dont believe me WATCH FOOTBALL ON SKY they will tell you the fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 hours ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said: In exactly the same way as we have never won the Papa Johns Trophy, Thank Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, downendcity said: ...but they wouldn't be hitting today's high tech balls, wearing high tech boots and playing on billiard table pitches. Also back then, today's strikers would not have a fitness and nutrition regime to keep them at their peak, they would probably be smokers and drinkers and the same would apply to today's goalies, were they playing back in the day. So with such a difference in the way footballers trained, etc it would make sense to differentiate the eras. Maybe we could use the rebranding of the top division as the marker for the modern era? 1 hour ago, Leveller said: What do you think was particularly wrong with goalkeepers back in the day? Do you suppose Pickford is better than Gordon Banks was, for example? I appreciate some are now very big and no doubt fitter They were crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Maltshoveller said: Proper football didnt start until 1992 If any one on here thinks different then you know nothing about the once beautiful game If you dont believe me WATCH FOOTBALL ON SKY they will tell you the fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn right. Luckily I made this rough sketch of City v Leeds in the 1970s, to show how it was before football was invented. That's Shedman's father atop the lamp post, which is what we had back then as there was obviously no floodlighting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 15 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Damn right. Luckily I made this rough sketch of City v Leeds in the 1970s, to show how it was before football was invented. That's Shedman's father atop the lamp post, which is what we had back then as there was obviously no floodlighting. I think that game was v West Ham. It was really foggy v Leeds. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, grifty said: So with such a difference in the way footballers trained, etc it would make sense to differentiate the eras. Maybe we could use the rebranding of the top division as the marker for the modern era? They were crap! Some were crap, some weren’t. Just like now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbytheriver Posted September 4, 2023 Report Share Posted September 4, 2023 Football was invented by sky +Keys and Gray. Jimmy Greaves? Dixie Dean? Pele? These guys never existed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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