See it. Hear it. Report it

[Bat Fastard]

Are we allowed to demonstrate discrimination against the Gas? Or even against Irene?

[ExiledAjax]

Lads it's true.

Honestly, these kidz. Won't someone tell them that Brexit should be used in relation to reclaiming sovereignty of your half of the pitch and getting all the opposition players out of your half.

A "Brexit clearance" would be more apt.

Edited October 6, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[phantom]

22 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Robert, Vyner (new contract) Wells (new contract) don't look very white to me

Not that I would even think about it in 2023

For that reason I think this 'see it, hear it, report it' is 100% utterly pointless

On the basis that the EFL and FSA are massively pushing this message I'd say it's not "utterly pointless" 

You only have to look at how many players are still getting racist abuse on almost a weekly basis 

But like mentioned above I've not personally heard anything myself in a very very long time 

[DaveF]

16 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Mehmeti is British, English to be exact. 

I more meant that he could be described as a 'flamboyant' player.

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Considering 52% of the population voted for it, it’s quite disparaging isn’t it. 

And i know plenty of the black and asian community that voted for Brexit including my father, this goes against the narrative that every man and his dog that voted for Brexit was a vicious uncultured white racist..

[Carey 6]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

We have a few but it was quite interesting to see our starting 11 on Wednesday were all Caucasian. In fact all white British/Irish. 
That changed with the subs obviously but I guess it shows how far we have come because an all-white starting 11 is a very very rare thing nowadays. And an all British/Irish one an even rarer thing I’d wager. 

Back in 2010/11 season, we had a rare occurrence where we fielded a side that had 10 of the starting 11 either mixed race/black, I doubt that’ll happen again either!

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect to the NP aspect of the thread, I expect he has signed the best players he can and money isn't the sole factor, some may prefer London e.g. if foreign players, on the budget he has to work with.

[Steve Watts]

9 minutes ago, Lewisdabaron said:

You still say the term “coloured” ????

I'd say that's a generational thing, but at least the anti-racist sentiment is there. 

I've always found the notion of colour kinda strange anyway.  I don't look at Ephraim Yeboah and see the colour black and neither do I look at Sammy Bell and see the colour white.  They're just both different shades of brown!  The fact that black and white (and yellow & red) was a social construct by "whites" to assert superiority of white skinned people over black/non white skinned people makes it somewhat strange that we still use the terms black & white considering its history.   It's a great thing that this is no longer the majority view in the world, but considering much of the world is trying to rid itself of its historic ties to racism it's mildly ironic that such an archaic term remains.

I was a child of the 80's and so grew up with the term coloured being preferred because black was seen as offensive because of the context it was used in - "You black bastard" and all that.  Over the years that viewpoint has swapped over and a lot of people who were adults in that era probably haven't adjusted or see anything wrong with it.

Interestingly, and maybe confusingly for some, the term "person of colour" is still used without being frowned upon, and is actually considered by some to be a more positive alternative to BAME (source The Law Society June '23).  With terminology changing all the time it's inevitable that people will fall foul .

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Considering 52% of the population voted for it, it’s quite disparaging isn’t it. 

What we come to expect !

[bearded_red]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

Not that it matters one bit, but if I had to bet, it wouldn’t be Pearson is a Tory/Brexiter. 

As you say, not that it matters, but he’s certainly not a Brexiter.

[IAmNick]

27 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

And i know plenty of the black and asian community that voted for Brexit including my father, this goes against the narrative that every man and his dog that voted for Brexit was a vicious uncultured white racist..

Thoughts and prayers, it must have been a very difficult time for you 

[Lewisdabaron]

25 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I'd say that's a generational thing, but at least the anti-racist sentiment is there. 

I've always found the notion of colour kinda strange anyway.  I don't look at Ephraim Yeboah and see the colour black and neither do I look at Sammy Bell and see the colour white.  They're just both different shades of brown!  The fact that black and white (and yellow & red) was a social construct by "whites" to assert superiority of white skinned people over black/non white skinned people makes it somewhat strange that we still use the terms black & white considering its history.   It's a great thing that this is no longer the majority view in the world, but considering much of the world is trying to rid itself of its historic ties to racism it's mildly ironic that such an archaic term remains.

I was a child of the 80's and so grew up with the term coloured being preferred because black was seen as offensive because of the context it was used in - "You black bastard" and all that.  Over the years that viewpoint has swapped over and a lot of people who were adults in that era probably haven't adjusted or see anything wrong with it.

Interestingly, and maybe confusingly for some, the term "person of colour" is still used without being frowned upon, and is actually considered by some to be a more positive alternative to BAME (source The Law Society June '23).  With terminology changing all the time it's inevitable that people will fall foul .

Ignorance is no excuse, this is 2023 not 1985.

Of course we should see colour in people, if we should not, then do “black lives” matter? Food for thought...

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Mehmeti is British, English to be exact. 

He may be a British citizen, with a British passport, but he's Albanian by playing allegiance, heritage, and culture. Certainly not English.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Problem is that when you do report something, even if you have evidence, nothing gets done about it.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Racism still a thing!? 
 

I remember bananas being thrown at Clyde Best pretty much everywhere! We have come a long way from the Love Thy Neighbor generation. 
 

How many non Caucasian players do we have in the first team squad and U21s out of interest?

I am the Love Thy Neighbour generation

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

I've always found the notion of colour kinda strange anyway.  I don't look at Ephraim Yeboah and see the colour black and neither do I look at Sammy Bell and see the colour white. 

Quite right-

Just people 

[Wedontplayinblue]

18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He may be a British citizen, with a British passport, but he's Albanian by playing allegiance, heritage, and culture. Certainly not English.

He was born in England, which makes him English. 

He is English with Albanian family, which would be part of his heritage, but to say he isn’t English when he was born here is a terrible thing to say.

Does it mean Max o Leary isn’t English even though he was born in Bath?
 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Wedontplayinblue

[RedRock]

6 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Quite right-

Just people 

Agree.

Strange isn’t it that Scottish woman presenter (does golf) has been gently re-introduced to our screens after her comment about our Women’s football team being too white. Frightening that even today people still see colour, not talent, as a basis for selection.

[Red Skin]

3 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, as it must do to some degree as it does in life, but how often do people openly hear racist abuse at city?

I can honestly say in my 30ish years of watching city, I’ve never heard a racist remark. 

Very good article in the last OSIB mag about an Muslim Asian City fan and his experiences at games. Sadly, it's still a thing.  Maybe @Shtanley could share?

As a white male I really have to look the those on the receiving end to gauge its effect.  I'm sure some of subtlety and nuance is lost on me.

Personally, I'm still pretty shocked by the amount of boos from our fans on the rare occasions opposition players take the knees.  No one will ever convince this is some political conspiracy by BTM.  It's just veiled racism. 

[ExiledAjax]

51 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

He was born in England, which makes him English. 

He is English with Albanian family, which would be part of his heritage, but to say he isn’t English when he was born here is a terrible thing to say.

Does it mean Max o Leary isn’t English even though he was born in Bath?
 

Why is it terrible? What do I deny him? 

Not citizenship - that will either be British or Albanian depending on his parent's citizenship. No one is an "English" citizen, and no one has an "English" passport because England isn't a sovereign state. Geographically it's a residual historical region of the UK and there's a genetic heritage (that forms somewhere between 2023 and the 800s). As an aside, the UK does not hand out British citizenship based on birth location (that's a New World thing) so your assertion of him being "English" because he was born in England is meaningless.

Nor do I deny him heritage. That again depends on his parent's genetics and heritage. I could have been born in Hong Kong but I wouldn't be Cantonese would I.

If he interacts with and exhibits the behaviour of English culture then fine, but that no more makes him English than I was Caymanian whilst I lived abroad. If interaction with a culture defined identity then all the expats on the Costa del Sol are Spanish.

My son was born in the Cayman Islands, but he's obviously not Caymanian. He's got a British passport and has English heritage. He may apply for Caymanian citizenship one day, but he's never going to have Caymanian heritage. Over there they'd call him a "paper" Caymanian and he would have fewer rights than "heritage" Caymanians.

I've got no idea about Max, but I'd guess he's an Irish citizen with Irish heritage. 

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Lads it's true.

Honestly, these kidz. Won't someone tell them that Brexit should be used in relation to reclaiming sovereignty of your half of the pitch and getting all the opposition players out of your half.

A "Brexit clearance" would be more apt.

Wouldn't a Brexit clearance be one where the ball doesn't go as far as intended or in the direction intended? 

[IAmNick]

36 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why is it terrible? What do I deny him? 

Not citizenship - that will either be British or Albanian depending on his parent's citizenship. No one is an "English" citizen, and no one has an "English" passport because England isn't a sovereign state. Geographically it's a residual historical region of the UK and there's a genetic heritage (that forms somewhere between 2023 and the 800s). As an aside, the UK does not hand out British citizenship based on birth location (that's a New World thing) so your assertion of him being "English" because he was born in England is meaningless.

Nor do I deny him heritage. That again depends on his parent's genetics and heritage. I could have been born in Hong Kong but I wouldn't be Cantonese would I.

If he interacts with and exhibits the behaviour of English culture then fine, but that no more makes him English than I was Caymanian whilst I lived abroad. If interaction with a culture defined identity then all the expats on the Costa del Sol are Spanish.

My son was born in the Cayman Islands, but he's obviously not Caymanian. He's got a British passport and has English heritage. He may apply for Caymanian citizenship one day, but he's never going to have Caymanian heritage. Over there they'd call him a "paper" Caymanian and he would have fewer rights than "heritage" Caymanians.

I've got no idea about Max, but I'd guess he's an Irish citizen with Irish heritage. 

Would his kids be English? At what point of bloodline do you become English then?

Just now, Sir Leigh of Somerset said:

Wouldn't a Brexit clearance be one where the ball doesn't go as far as intended or in the direction intended? 

An own goal, surely?

[Parkwaymom]

Although Pearson clearly gets some input into player signings, my impression is that he has more say in the signing of coaching team which isn’t overwhelmingly white. 

[ChippenhamRed]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

Considering 52% of the population voted for it, it’s quite disparaging isn’t it. 

If you think that’s disparaging, you should hear what I think about the charlatans and conmen that sold it to them.

[ExiledAjax]

48 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Would his kids be English? At what point of bloodline do you become English then?

If their mother was of English heritage then partially yes. But otherwise no I'd probably not class them as English just because (and assuming they were) born in "England". They'd also not necessarily be British citizens either.

English is a vague heritage, and I said I don't know exactly when English as a heritage would have crystallised. I guess I wonder if the answer is similar to - and I don't know the answer here either - the point someone can be considered Cantonese, or Igbo, or Navajo.

[95red]

6 hours ago, ZumerZetSmithy said:

a few years ago a man behind us was shouting racist abuse at Millwall players  i did a quick count up 7 coloured city players . i ask him if he knew how man we had .

luckily I did not see  him the following season

We not allowed  11 white players  then because  it ms racist ffs

[IAmNick]

55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

If their mother was of English heritage then partially yes. But otherwise no I'd probably not class them as English just because (and assuming they were) born in "England". They'd also not necessarily be British citizens either.

English is a vague heritage, and I said I don't know exactly when English as a heritage would have crystallised. I guess I wonder if the answer is similar to - and I don't know the answer here either - the point someone can be considered Cantonese, or Igbo, or Navajo.

Yeah fair - I certainly agree with your second paragraph. It's so poorly defined I think you could make a case for multiple view points. People who tend to think about it a lot are also either very interesting or very unpleasant people!

[spudski]

5 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

I'd say that's a generational thing, but at least the anti-racist sentiment is there. 

I've always found the notion of colour kinda strange anyway.  I don't look at Ephraim Yeboah and see the colour black and neither do I look at Sammy Bell and see the colour white.  They're just both different shades of brown!  The fact that black and white (and yellow & red) was a social construct by "whites" to assert superiority of white skinned people over black/non white skinned people makes it somewhat strange that we still use the terms black & white considering its history.   It's a great thing that this is no longer the majority view in the world, but considering much of the world is trying to rid itself of its historic ties to racism it's mildly ironic that such an archaic term remains.

I was a child of the 80's and so grew up with the term coloured being preferred because black was seen as offensive because of the context it was used in - "You black bastard" and all that.  Over the years that viewpoint has swapped over and a lot of people who were adults in that era probably haven't adjusted or see anything wrong with it.

Interestingly, and maybe confusingly for some, the term "person of colour" is still used without being frowned upon, and is actually considered by some to be a more positive alternative to BAME (source The Law Society June '23).  With terminology changing all the time it's inevitable that people will fall foul .

Great post and spot on.

However...what pisses me off the most, is as soon as the ' racist' term is used, it's immediately seen as white being racist against black. 

Imo..it's the other way these days. 

Whites are now constantly questioning what they say etc...

I know I'll get flack for this...but for every ' Black awards ceremonies ' for various Profession's in life...( Google it)...imagine the furore if we had white awards ceremonies.

It's freakin broken...and imo considerably devisive. 

I literally don't see colour like you implied..until it's put in a title and made a point of. 

It's nuts.

Edited October 6, 2023 by spudski

[IAmNick]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Great post and spot on.

However...what pisses me off the most, is as soon as the ' racist' term is used, it's immediately seen as white being racist against black. 

Imo..it's the other way these days. 

Whites are now constantly questioning what they say etc...

I know I'll get flack for this...but for every ' Black awards ceremonies ' for various Profession's in life...( Google it)...imagine the furore if we had white awards ceremonies.

It's freakin broken...and imo considerably devisive. 

I literally don't see colour like you implied..until it's put in a title and made a point of. 

It's nuts.

We had white awards ceremonies for the last few hundred years brother, we just didn't even need to bother putting it in the name

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

We had white awards ceremonies for the last few hundred years brother, we just didn't even need to bother putting it in the name

Wow...just wow. Seriously?

That reasoning is so ****** up.

Obviously someone told you that...not something you thought at the time.

I can see you now watching award ceremonies thinking..' hmmm why are no blacks being nominated?'

It's so fabricated.