First impressions post Nige

[johnheadbcfc]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, I’m pretty happy we got 4 points from these two games. I saw them as a pair of real banana skins whoever was in charge, because we have had injuries (a few returned under Fleming for the SW game). Both opponents with new managers. And above all, it’s the Championship.  With City being the type of team they are I rarely go into a match super-confident we are gonna win.  For some reason I was versus Plymouth, but not sure where that gut feel came from!

We just need to give LM time.

Watch his patterns, see how players adapt / fit into that, etc, etc.

The good thing for me on Saturday was that despite QPR having a decent spell (15 mins???) of “pressure” (retracting my use of the word dominance yesterday”), we were solid, the defensive foundations are there / still there, and we didn’t look like relinquishing the 0-0 scoreline we started the game with.  A bit of luck with 2 or 3 balls slid across the 6 yard box and we maybe get the 3 points.  We again looked strong in the latter moments of games.

I feel so confident in our defence at the moment especially the centre backs its strange  

[Davefevs]

Just now, johnheadbcfc said:

I feel so confident in our defence at the moment especially the centre backs its strange  

Zak has retained his “best-ever-season” form into this year, and Dickie has been an astute signing.

We haven’t seen too much of him breaking through the middle this season (we did a bit pre-season), and that might be an Avenue we see more of to break down stodgy midfields like QPR.  They struggled to cope, we just couldn’t find that magic touch to make it count.

[Kibs]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, I’m pretty happy we got 4 points from these two games. I saw them as a pair of real banana skins whoever was in charge, because we have had injuries (a few returned under Fleming for the SW game). Both opponents with new managers. And above all, it’s the Championship.  With City being the type of team they are I rarely go into a match super-confident we are gonna win.  For some reason I was versus Plymouth, but not sure where that gut feel came from!

We just need to give LM time.

Watch his patterns, see how players adapt / fit into that, etc, etc.

The good thing for me on Saturday was that despite QPR having a decent spell (15 mins???) of “pressure” (retracting my use of the word dominance yesterday”), we were solid, the defensive foundations are there / still there, and we didn’t look like relinquishing the 0-0 scoreline we started the game with.  A bit of luck with 2 or 3 balls slid across the 6 yard box and we maybe get the 3 points.  We again looked strong in the latter moments of games.

I totally get why people are so pissed off, I am too!!!

I was pissed off at the start of the season when Nigel Pearson wasn’t given the funds to bring a couple in after the sale of Scott.  

This league is so tight that I genuinely believed we were only 2 or 3 signings away from being able to really have a go at the top 6, and that Pearson had earned that opportunity.

But he didn’t get those players, we had a horrendous run of injuries and he’s now gone…..but none of that is Liam Mannings fault and it just irks me that people want to lay the blame at his door already.

I feel for him, he’s in for a rough ride. I hope he has thick skin!!!!

[chinapig]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We again looked strong in the latter moments of games.

But surely the players have been de-conditioned so must have run out of steam? I do hope you're not questioning Jon's expertise in these matters Dave.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I totally get why people are so pissed off, I am too!!!

I was pissed off at the start of the season when Nigel Pearson wasn’t given the funds to bring a couple in after the sale of Scott.  

This league is so tight that I genuinely believed we were only 2 or 3 signings away from being able to really have a go at the top 6, and that Pearson had earned that opportunity.

But he didn’t get those players, we had a horrendous run of injuries and he’s now gone…..but none of that is Liam Mannings fault and it just irks me that people want to lay the blame at his door already.

I feel for him, he’s in for a rough ride. I hope he has thick skin!!!!

Just like it was a minority who refused to recognise the restrictions Pearson worked under it will be a similar sized minority of different people who won’t give Manning a chance. We have to give him a chance because the alternative is to hound him out and rely on the absolute circus upstairs to pick yet another manager. Who wants that scenario? Nige shouldn’t have been sacked but neither is he coming back. It’s done.

He’s left us in decent shape and the opportunity is there for Manning to take it forward like Nige would have done (whether too slowly for some or not). I would like to think that should the ride with Manning be bumpy to start with most of us have enough intelligence to know exactly where to vent any frustrations.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Scrumpty said:

Agree, here's a view on Pearson's last 6 games in charge. It wasn't pretty. QPR comparable to Rotherham, without the late winner!

(h)  Stoke                   Reasonable performance, but mugged ourselves and threw away 2 goal lead

(a)  Rotherham        Ugly poor game, flattered by TC’s heroics

(a)  Leeds                  Too many mistakes, flattered by score

(h)  Coventry            Second best first half and struggled for rhythm. Second half better

(h)  Ipswich               Played pretty well, but lost

(a)  Cardiff                Didn’t create much, lost

Stoke (h)- Injuries steadily rising though yes we mugged ourselves. Draw would have been underwhelming, to lose was so bad. (McCrorie  Vyner, Atkinson, Benarous).

Rotherham (a)- Thought we improved 2nd half, first half was poor absolutely- TC won the day. Add Tanner to the list, no dedicated RB.

Leeds (a)- One of the better opposing sides to go there, gameplan disrupted early by Wells injury too. A loss but a respectable display in doing so. Injury list now 5, rose to 6. Not saying Leeds weren't worthy winners btw.

Coventry (h)- Oh we got lucky. We set up badly too, at the same time we deserved more vs Stoke. Once the shape changed we looked more steady..Injury list rose to 8 over the International break, questions about the fitness of Knight too.

Ipswich (h)- Bit unlucky to lose in some ways. Hit post and it rolled along the line, but Ipswich were very good for the first hour especially. It rose from 8 to 10 during the game, running on fumes. Yet we finished that game very well.

Cardiff (a)- We lost yes but the injuries rose from 6 to 8 to 10 to 11 in a week or so. Sykes at LB, James making his debut and anyway the game by certain metric wasn't particularly uneven anyway.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Kibs]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Just like it was a minority who refused to recognise the restrictions Pearson worked under it will be a similar sized minority of different people who won’t give Manning a chance. We have to give him a chance because the alternative is to hound him out and rely on the absolute circus upstairs to pick yet another manager. Who wants that scenario? Nige shouldn’t have been sacked but neither is he coming back. It’s done.

He’s left us in decent shape and the opportunity is there for Manning to take it forward like Nige would have done (whether too slowly for some or not). I would like to think that should the ride with Manning be bumpy to start with most of us have enough intelligence to know exactly where to vent any frustrations.

Agree with every single word here, but the bit in bold sums it up brilliantly. 

What Pearson achieved with his limited resources had him up there as one of my favourite City managers. 

And you’re right, if people aren’t prepared to get behind and support Manning and the team, the alternative is a return to the merry go round - and who knows what master stroke they would come up with next!!!

[Shauntaylor85]

41 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I totally get why people are so pissed off, I am too!!!

I was pissed off at the start of the season when Nigel Pearson wasn’t given the funds to bring a couple in after the sale of Scott.  

This league is so tight that I genuinely believed we were only 2 or 3 signings away from being able to really have a go at the top 6, and that Pearson had earned that opportunity.

But he didn’t get those players, we had a horrendous run of injuries and he’s now gone…..but none of that is Liam Mannings fault and it just irks me that people want to lay the blame at his door already.

I feel for him, he’s in for a rough ride. I hope he has thick skin!!!!

Don’t feel for him, he’s a football manager, feels this is the right move and needs to deliver. He got it wrong on Saturday, there was no new manager bounce because we didn’t need a new manager. This is more directed at JL and BT who got this massively wrong. 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

For me looking at our squad the defence is solid especially when all centre backs are fit.

In midfield we are also pretty good although James can't go on too much longer and Weimann is finished.

Up front is our problem. All of our players are relatively short. Conway and Bell are full of potential but nowhere near the finished article. Conway cannot lead the line and Cornick is chaotic. Things will improve when Wells is back but he also is running short of time at this level.

If the management is serious about improving we need a striker proven at this level in during January.

We definitely need a striker and a few of us said it at the start of the season.  We were roundly told that we had loads of players who could play as a striker. My view at that point was that we did but none were good enough apart from maybe Conway. Good enough for top 6 that is. If the aim was mid table then it was fine 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We definitely need a striker and a few of us said it at the start of the season.  We were roundly told that we had loads of players who could play as a striker. My view at that point was that we did but none were good enough apart from maybe Conway. Good enough for top 6 that is. If the aim was mid table then it was fine 

We also had a budget restricting us, and that influenced what many fans saw as priority positions, mine included.

[Mr Popodopolous]

If our strikers are all fit and competing, I'm not so sure. That is a big if though.

We certainly need more goals from other areas of the pitch- Bell has 3 is it and Sykes I was hopeful may get 5-10.

Atkinson got a few last year, Dickie has 2 goals in the last few, hope he can add some more.

Knight in his first year or 2 coming through at Derby scored some goals.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Floatn Over]

41 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Agree with every single word here, but the bit in bold sums it up brilliantly. 

What Pearson achieved with his limited resources had him up there as one of my favourite City managers. 

And you’re right, if people aren’t prepared to get behind and support Manning and the team, the alternative is a return to the merry go round - and who knows what master stroke they would come up with next!!!

I’m still very down about Nige going out the door but we need to support LM and the team.  If we don’t the “circus” will rapidly point fingers from on high at the fanbase “you are not giving him a chance” etc etc, at the first opportunity will be the cover.

IMO we need to be careful now as a fanbase.  This has to work, I really hope it does, they have gone to great lengths to say it will, hopefully we have good times ahead but let’s not make anything less our fault.

[RedEyez]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, I’m pretty happy we got 4 points from these two games. I saw them as a pair of real banana skins whoever was in charge, because we have had injuries (a few returned under Fleming for the SW game). Both opponents with new managers. And above all, it’s the Championship.  With City being the type of team they are I rarely go into a match super-confident we are gonna win.  For some reason I was versus Plymouth, but not sure where that gut feel came from!

We just need to give LM time.

Watch his patterns, see how players adapt / fit into that, etc, etc.

The good thing for me on Saturday was that despite QPR having a decent spell (15 mins???) of “pressure” (retracting my use of the word dominance yesterday”), we were solid, the defensive foundations are there / still there, and we didn’t look like relinquishing the 0-0 scoreline we started the game with.  A bit of luck with 2 or 3 balls slid across the 6 yard box and we maybe get the 3 points.  We again looked strong in the latter moments of games.

As always Dave, you speak a lot of sense.

I too was very confident going into the Plymouth game and now I think about it , it’s probably because their gaffer got it horribly wrong and rested half their team!

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm 100% confident we'd have beat them under Nige.

There was very little that could be taken from our past half a dozen games, or indeed from much of the season as a whole, to justify such optimism that we would have "100%" beaten QPR.

For starters, we haven't won back-to-back games in 32 attempts - all under Nige, in case you'd forgotten. But you are "100%" sure that after struggling to beat 10 man bottom-of-the-table Sheff Wed, we'd have comfortably secured another win? 

I mean it's just nonsense. Same as your comment earlier in the thread that Nige would have had us "challenging for the play-offs". Again, there was no evidence in performances so far this season that that was going to happen. Yes, the division is quite tight at the moment so it looks like we're within touching distance of them, but I haven't come across a single City fan who thinks we're a top 6 side based on performances so far this season. Not one. We're miles off it. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

There was very little that could be taken from our past half a dozen games, or indeed from much of the season as a whole, to justify such optimism that we would have "100%" beaten QPR.

For starters, we haven't won back-to-back games in 32 attempts - all under Nige, in case you'd forgotten. But you are "100%" sure that after struggling to beat 10 man bottom-of-the-table Sheff Wed, we'd have comfortably secured another win? 

I mean it's just nonsense. Same as your comment earlier in the thread that Nige would have had us "challenging for the play-offs". Again, there was no evidence in performances so far this season that that was going to happen. Yes, the division is quite tight at the moment so it looks like we're within touching distance of them, but I haven't come across a single City fan who thinks we're a top 6 side based on performances so far this season. Not one. We're miles off it. 

What about with some luck and a mostly fit squad, bit of a tilt?

If a division is quite tight a mid ranking side can rise up unexpectedly to have a bit of go at 5th or 6th at least.

Top 6 overall? No. With a fair wind, mostly fit squad capitalising on a bit of momentum to have a go, maybe.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[And Its Smith]

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We also had a budget restricting us, and that influenced what many fans saw as priority positions, mine included.

Hmmm. Bit of rewriting history there I think.  Many said we don’t need a striker and that they’d happily settle for the 5 we have. I argued we had quantity over quality at the time and I’ve seen nothing to change my mind since 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Hmmm. Bit of rewriting history there I think.  Many said we don’t need a striker and that they’d happily settle for the 5 we have. I argued we had quantity over quality at the time and I’ve seen nothing to change my mind since 

Yes and no I guess.

Pre-selling Alex Scott, we thought we had budget about to become available, and I’m quite happy with my view that I thought we’d recruited in the areas of priority first.  Only my view.  I know you wanted a striker.  At that point having got those players, I agree with you, we could’ve pushed for a striker and / or a goalie too.  You’d have pushed earlier, that’s cool.  Personally I’d have erred on being happy with the 6/7 (TC, NW, SN, AW, AM, MS, HC) we had for Nige’s front three, but that’s just me.  Although I wouldn’t play those 6/7 in the way Nige played them.

Then after selling Scott, Nige started coming out with budget comments.  I thought it was BS.  It wasn’t.

FWIW, I still think our forwards are a bunch of capable players.  But cohesion / service (lack of) has been lacking at times.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Davefevs

[Kid in the Riot]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What about with some luck and a mostly fit squad, bit of a tilt?

If a division is quite tight a mid ranking side can rise up unexpectedly to have a bit of go at 5th or 6th at least.

Top 6 overall? No. With a fair wind, mostly fit squad capitalising on a bit of momentum to have a go, maybe.

Not for me, no. I haven't seen any kind of material improvement in terms of overall performances this season versus last. We look better defensively, but worse going forward. Two goals scored in five games now; both from a central defender.

Nige was doing a decent job in tricky circumstances, let's not rewrite history and try and claim he was on the verge of some grand run of form that would have fired us into a promotion challenge. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Kid in the Riot

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Not for me, no. I haven't seen any kind of material improvement in terms of overall performances this season versus last. We look better defensively, but worse going forward. Two goals scored in five games now; both from a central defender.

Nige was going a decent job in tricky circumstances, let's not rewrite history and try and claim he was on the verge of some grand run of form that would have fired us into a promotion challenge. 

Disagree with you on that, before the injuries we were looking competitive and certainly no worse than the likes of PNE. That was the worst performance of the season, by a mile. We played better at Cardiff with a 17 year old out of position on debut. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not for me, no. I haven't seen any kind of material improvement in terms of overall performances this season versus last. We look better defensively, but worse going forward. Two goals scored in five games now; both from a central defender.

Nige was doing a decent job in tricky circumstances, let's not rewrite history and try and claim he was on the verge of some grand run of form that would have fired us into a promotion challenge. 

We have had rolling injuries all season which has to be factored in, worse than many clubs.

Some underlying numbers have been better than last year but stats v eyes and these have dipped..albeit injuries have been spiking.

4 pts from the last 2 is okay, 6 would have been ideal, less than 4 disappointing.

Statistically after 15 we were 3 pts better off than the prior season, if compared like for like fixtures 5 better off..GD was likewise improved. Possibly by 3 if like for like fixtures, 1 if 15 games verbatim.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not for me, no. I haven't seen any kind of material improvement in terms of overall performances this season versus last. We look better defensively, but worse going forward. Two goals scored in five games now; both from a central defender.

Nige was going a decent job in tricky circumstances, let's not rewrite history and try and claim he was on the verge of some grand run of form that would have fired us into a promotion challenge. 

I think with players coming back from injury he would’ve consolidated a top-half position, which is steady progress.  I agree, we weren’t about to become a playoff side.  Who knows a favourable run of fixtures / results might’ve seen us enter the top 6 for a week or two, but ultimately we are bit short aren’ t we.

In trying to transition from counterattacking to more control (not total control) style, I think we saw some inconsistency, and therefore mixed performances…and possibly a little less excitement too.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We have had rolling injuries all season which has to be factored in, worse than many clubs.

Some underlying numbers have been better than last year but stats v eyes and these have dipped..albeit injuries have been spiking.

4 pts from the last 2 is okay, 6 would have been ideal, less than 4 disappointing.

Statistically after 15 we were 3 pts better off than the prior season, if compared like for like fixtures 5 better off..GD was likewise improved. Possibly by 3 if like for like fixtures, 1 if 15 games verbatim.

What do you mean by “like for like” fixtures?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Davefevs said:

What do you mean by “like for like” fixtures?

Maybe it isn't the best comparison but last year we got 5 pts from the 3 home games vs the relegated sides ie Blackpool, Reading and Wigan. This season 6 from 3 vs the newly promoted- Ipswich, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday.

Last season we lost all 3 away games vs the sides who went up- Burnley, Luton, Sheffield United, by 1 goal. This season 1 goal losses at Leeds and Leicester.  Southampton remains to be seen.

The rest is literally the comparison of equivalent games last sesson ie sides who we played in the Championship last year ie Preston at home -2 etc.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe it isn't the best comparison but last year we got 5 pts from the 3 home games vs the relegated sides ie Blackpool, Reading and Wigan. This season 6 from 3 vs the newly promoted- Ipswich, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday.

Last season we lost all 3 away games vs the sides who went up- Burnley, Luton, Sheffield United, by 1 goal. This season 1 goal losses at Leeds and Leicester.  Southampton remains to be seen.

The rest is literally the comparison of equivalent games last sesson ie sides who we played in the Championship last year ie Preston at home -2 etc.

Got you, thought that was what you were implying.  Ta.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think with players coming back from injury he would’ve consolidated a top-half position, which is steady progress.  I agree, we weren’t about to become a playoff side.  Who knows a favourable run of fixtures / results might’ve seen us enter the top 6 for a week or two, but ultimately we are bit short aren’ t we.

In trying to transition from counterattacking to more control (not total control) style, I think we saw some inconsistency, and therefore mixed performances…and possibly a little less excitement too.

Yes, I could see us maybe having been able to improve by a couple of positions on last season (so around 12th) but there was very little evidence to suggest we'd have done much better. 

Agree with the point on performances too. A few good halves against Hull, Plymouth and Swansea, but unfortunately not too much else to write home about. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's hard to say really because the Championship outside of a few sides at either end, it's quite inconsistent across the board. Thusfar anyway.

A tilt yeah with luck, good injury situation, get into top 6 pretty unlikely. Still think Preston will drop off for one.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[bcfc01]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes and no I guess.

Pre-selling Alex Scott, we thought we had budget about to become available, and I’m quite happy with my view that I thought we’d recruited in the areas of priority first.  Only my view.  I know you wanted a striker.  At that point having got those players, I agree with you, we could’ve pushed for a striker and / or a goalie too.  You’d have pushed earlier, that’s cool.  Personally I’d have erred on being happy with the 6/7 (TC, NW, SN, AW, AM, MS, HC) we had for Nige’s front three, but that’s just me.  Although I wouldn’t play those 6/7 in the way Nige played them.

Then after selling Scott, Nige started coming out with budget comments.  I thought it was BS.  It wasn’t.

FWIW, I still think our forwards are a bunch of capable players.  But cohesion / service (lack of) has been lacking at times.

Agreed, but isolating the main central striker and asking the two wide players to hug the touchline hasn't and won't work.

It'll be interesting to see how LM approaches it in the coming weeks.

 

[johnheadbcfc]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

There was very little that could be taken from our past half a dozen games, or indeed from much of the season as a whole, to justify such optimism that we would have "100%" beaten QPR.

For starters, we haven't won back-to-back games in 32 attempts - all under Nige, in case you'd forgotten. But you are "100%" sure that after struggling to beat 10 man bottom-of-the-table Sheff Wed, we'd have comfortably secured another win? 

I mean it's just nonsense. Same as your comment earlier in the thread that Nige would have had us "challenging for the play-offs". Again, there was no evidence in performances so far this season that that was going to happen. Yes, the division is quite tight at the moment so it looks like we're within touching distance of them, but I haven't come across a single City fan who thinks we're a top 6 side based on performances so far this season. Not one. We're miles off it. 

Like a breath of fresh air this post is

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yes, I could see us maybe having been able to improve by a couple of positions on last season (so around 12th) but there was very little evidence to suggest we'd have done much better. 

Agree with the point on performances too. A few good halves against Hull, Plymouth and Swansea, but unfortunately not too much else to write home about. 

My own view is that it felt as if NP had stabilised the team, without us actually playing particularly well at times. We spent the whole of last season roughly in the bottom half of the table, without ever being in real danger of being dragged into a relegation battle. This year in a lot of ways feels exactly the same and on that basis it felt as if the club as a whole was drifting somewhat.

The whole budget situation, the lack of direction of the senior management team (particularly after Alexander decided to go early doors, not to be replaced), the absence of communication. It all felt like a marriage that had run it's course and was playing out until the end of the season, where there would be a parting of the ways.

The board to their credit, have decided to make the change mid season (probably forced on them as they were starting to look like complete muppets) and it will take time for LM and his coaching team to get the squad playing in the way that they want them to play. In the meantime, he has two weeks now to get the team playing what in a lot of ways will be a new system, with a new mindset. A difficult thing to do mid season.

What I saw on Saturday was two teams that seemed to be trying to play the way their new respective coaches had in their short time in their role instructed them to play. Both teams looked ineffective and disjointed at times, the way in which if can appear at pre-season friendlies. It wasn't pretty by City, but we looked defensively strong and if Bell had put that last chance away, things might have been viewed differently.

The injuries played a part in NP's team's results over the last 4-6 weeks. But there was some baffling selection decisions as well. Going with 3 keepers, playing 17 and 18 year olds that hadn't even played for the under 21s. Some players like Francois and OTC completely out in the wilderness (yes, I'm aware of the pre season rumours of those two). The over use of Yeboah, as if he would in someway have an epiphany  moment and turn into the next Semenyo, when he looks what he is at the moment, a very raw 17 year old that is still learning how to play football effectively. The fact remained that we have scored 16 goals in 15 games (last season 55 in 46 games) and 2 in the last 5 (both by a CB). The forwards at the club for the second year running aren't producing what we need them to do, it's as simple as that really

This international break has probably come at the best time for LM and the squad. Let's see what the next month brings. There will be some horror shows of that I've no doubt, but we have to give LM time (and hopefully resources) to rebuild a side that plays in the way he wants them to. The appointment feels like a gamble (though not of the Lennartson type), fingers crossed it works out.

[Superjack]

6 hours ago, chinapig said:

"What Nigel Pearson makes Liam Manning can spend" perhaps?

Good point. So technically not a lie.

Just a blatant deceit.