Manning first Pre game

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, petehinton said:

So he is. So he’s basically been in the background of everything Manning related the club have put out so far. 
 

I’m in the camp that him going out there watching training, especially 3 weeks in, is odd behaviour. What does he gain out of that? First one, or two, I can maybe get out of curiosity or to maybe be seen as giving Manning support, but basically 3 weeks in….it gives OFSTED inspector watching a teacher vibes. 

Yep, if the OFSTED inspector was a failed teacher.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Ghost Rider.

I look forward to seeing his style of “bants”.  His previous posting style didn’t appear to have much “bants” in it.  But maybe a trip to Mexico has helped him see the light!

can I be Powerpoint Pauline? I'm rubbish at it!

[exAtyeoMax]

18 minutes ago, petehinton said:

So he is. So he’s basically been in the background of everything Manning related the club have put out so far. 
 

I’m in the camp that him going out there watching training, especially 3 weeks in, is odd behaviour. What does he gain out of that? First one, or two, I can maybe get out of curiosity or to maybe be seen as giving Manning support, but basically 3 weeks in….it gives OFSTED inspector watching a teacher vibes. 

to steal his ideas? 

[Ronnie Sinclair]

18 minutes ago, petehinton said:

So he is. So he’s basically been in the background of everything Manning related the club have put out so far. 
 

I’m in the camp that him going out there watching training, especially 3 weeks in, is odd behaviour. What does he gain out of that? First one, or two, I can maybe get out of curiosity or to maybe be seen as giving Manning support, but basically 3 weeks in….it gives OFSTED inspector watching a teacher vibes. 

If my boss was hovering all the time they'd get short shrift, people have to be left alone to do their job 

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, petehinton said:

So he is. So he’s basically been in the background of everything Manning related the club have put out so far. 
 

I’m in the camp that him going out there watching training, especially 3 weeks in, is odd behaviour. What does he gain out of that? First one, or two, I can maybe get out of curiosity or to maybe be seen as giving Manning support, but basically 3 weeks in….it gives OFSTED inspector watching a teacher vibes. 

I’m the opposite…I think the TD should be out there…not all the time…but he should look at how the players are being coached 1) from a performance evaluation perspective of both players and coaches / head-coach, but also 2) recruitment perspective too, so that when they are getting their player profile / brief they can see exactly what a player needs to do.

Steve Walsh was split recruitment / coach under Nige at Leicester to do just that.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

If my boss was hovering all the time they'd get short shrift, people have to be left alone to do their job 

Out of interest, is Tinnion his boss?

I’d assumed Manning reported into the board, but that’s only my guess?  Might have a dotted into Tins???

[Tim Monaghan]

7 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

can I be Powerpoint Pauline? I'm rubbish at it!

You certainly can. 

 

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m the opposite…I think the TD should be out there…not all the time…but he should look at how the players are being coached 1) from a performance evaluation perspective of both players and coaches / head-coach, but also 2) recruitment perspective too, so that when they are getting their player profile / brief they can see exactly what a player needs to do.

I agree with David, Tins should be out there shouldn't he? As long as he isn't involved in the actual training, what is the issue apart from this new Brian Tinnion agenda? Is it a good thing that he's taking an interest? Do people seriously think he's stood there like some sort of dictator? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m the opposite…I think the TD should be out there…not all the time…but he should look at how the players are being coached 1) from a performance evaluation perspective of both players and coaches / head-coach, but also 2) recruitment perspective too, so that when they are getting their player profile / brief they can see exactly what a player needs to do.

There is only one place for performance evaluation that matters.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

If my boss was hovering all the time they'd get short shrift, people have to be left alone to do their job 

There's always the possibility that LM asked for the input ? The possibility that it's moral support? The possibility that it was planned  by all parties? The possibility that BT isn't always "lurking in the background like an Ofsted Inspector?

But, hey, let's not let an alternative possibility get in the way of a good ol' bit of Tinman bashing- the scoundrel.

[Crimson Crayola]

26 minutes ago, petehinton said:

So he is. So he’s basically been in the background of everything Manning related the club have put out so far. 
 

I’m in the camp that him going out there watching training, especially 3 weeks in, is odd behaviour. What does he gain out of that? First one, or two, I can maybe get out of curiosity or to maybe be seen as giving Manning support, but basically 3 weeks in….it gives OFSTED inspector watching a teacher vibes. 

Does feel a little bit like that, though as Fevs mentioned above he did the same with Nige? Maybe he's like those weird angel statues in Dr who, creeping ever closer, and when he's close enough he gives you the sack (as opposed to sending you back in time).

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Countryfile said:

There is only one place for performance evaluation that matters.

Failand Inn after training finishes?

[eardun]

And the press conference:

Manning meets the press ahead of Middlesbrough - Bristol City FC

[Loosey Boy]

30 minutes ago, eardun said:

And the press conference:

Manning meets the press ahead of Middlesbrough - Bristol City FC

The most relaxed we’ve seen him being interviewed since he joined

Sounds like a good two weeks with the squad - lets hope we see a positive performance on Saturday

[Sir Geoff]

9 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

The most relaxed we’ve seen him being interviewed since he joined

Sounds like a good two weeks with the squad - lets hope we see a positive performance on Saturday

The players won't be deconditioned after this International break. As we have taken 4 points immediately following the previous two international breaks with deconditioned players, I am fully expecting 3 points and a positive performance.

[eardun]

15 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

The most relaxed we’ve seen him being interviewed since he joined

Sounds like a good two weeks with the squad - lets hope we see a positive performance on Saturday

Yep. Looking forward to Saturday. Wish him every success. 

[spudski]

Really pleased to hear Matty James say exactly what I've been saying for ages. As have others. Never understood how many times we risked the hero ball on a sixpence, to only lose possession and go back under pressure and out of shape. Imo...done because it was thought we didn't have the players to build and break down with possession. Now Manning is trying it out with the same players. It will be an interesting watch as to whether they are capable. However his quote reads oddly...fine margin between ' rushed attack'...and...' fast attacking football'. Quote..

It’s just being a little bit more patient as we move up the field,” James said. “I think sometimes we’ve rushed attacks in the past and given back needless possession when we didn’t really need to. If a team’s dropped off then we can’t really keep going in behind, we have to build a different way, but the gaffer wants to play fast, attacking football.

[stephenkibby.]

On 22/11/2023 at 13:44, Davefevs said:

Failand Inn after training finishes?

Dave i haven't read much on here on your view on Manning. i can see your keeping your powder dry but beside the fact that it was shit that Pearson was sacked, do you think he's a decent appointment?

Not talking about the next 5 or 6 games or weather he gets a couple of quid in January do you think he's a good fit?

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Really pleased to hear Matty James say exactly what I've been saying for ages. As have others. Never understood how many times we risked the hero ball on a sixpence, to only lose possession and go back under pressure and out of shape. Imo...done because it was thought we didn't have the players to build and break down with possession. Now Manning is trying it out with the same players. It will be an interesting watch as to whether they are capable. However his quote reads oddly...fine margin between ' rushed attack'...and...' fast attacking football'. Quote..

It’s just being a little bit more patient as we move up the field,” James said. “I think sometimes we’ve rushed attacks in the past and given back needless possession when we didn’t really need to. If a team’s dropped off then we can’t really keep going in behind, we have to build a different way, but the gaffer wants to play fast, attacking football.

Amen.

My view is that we try to killer ball too early in the phase of possession or to be more accurate we try it when we aren’t always in a controlled phase of possession.

I think some of that is borne out of trying to change from a counterattacking team to a more controlled one, but not all of it.

Much as I rate Andi Weimann, there are times when his first instinct is to make a run for a killer ball even though we’ve not really secured possession.  It also doesn’t help the player with the ball who might be under too much pressure to execute the type of pass Weimann is making a run for.  To give some balance, when we are in good possession, Weimann’s runs are often excellent, and perversely often about dragging defenders around to create space for others.

I think we are gonna need some evidence to help understand what “fast, attacking football” actually is, in Manning’s eyes, anyway!  It’s all “only words” at the mo’.  That’s not a criticism at all, just we’ve nothing (bar QPR) to go on.

There’s a part of me that says if we get good movement and good technicians on the ball it will feel “fast and attacking” naturally.  I look back at Hull (a) and see Naismith threading passes from defence into midfield and Williams and Knight being able to get on the ball and either face-up their opponent or roll them.  Knight’s roll and pass to Sykes for Wells to tap-in wasn’t quite the same but an example of what felt like quick, incisive football.  At times, certainly after 20 mins, we ripped them apart.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Amen.

My view is that we try to killer ball too early in the phase of possession or to be more accurate we try it when we aren’t always in a controlled phase of possession.

I think some of that is borne out of trying to change from a counterattacking team to a more controlled one, but not all of it.

Much as I rate Andi Weimann, there are times when his first instinct is to make a run for a killer ball even though we’ve not really secured possession.  It also doesn’t help the player with the ball who might be under too much pressure to execute the type of pass Weimann is making a run for.  To give some balance, when we are in good possession, Weimann’s runs are often excellent, and perversely often about dragging defenders around to create space for others.

I think we are gonna need some evidence to help understand what “fast, attacking football” actually is, in Manning’s eyes, anyway!  It’s all “only words” at the mo’.  That’s not a criticism at all, just we’ve nothing (bar QPR) to go on.

There’s a part of me that says if we get good movement and good technicians on the ball it will feel “fast and attacking” naturally.  I look back at Hull (a) and see Naismith threading passes from defence into midfield and Williams and Knight being able to get on the ball and either face-up their opponent or roll them.  Knight’s roll and pass to Sykes for Wells to tap-in wasn’t quite the same but an example of what felt like quick, incisive football.  At times, certainly after 20 mins, we ripped them apart.

Blimey Dave, you've read my mind. That's exactly how I see it. 

It's been going on since LJs tenure. 

I'm glad you spoke of Weimann in that way, as it's not overly critical. But imo your observation is like mine. 

He's the one player that I'm interested to see how he adapts to Manning's way of playing. More than any other. 

He is excellent at pulling players, creating space. But imo, his weakness is rushed movement into a miniscule space, expecting a hero ball on a sixpence, then not having the technical ability to control said ball. Intention that if Messi...ability of Weimann.

It may sound harsh...but he ipotomises how we have played the last 4 years. 

Full of energy and effort, 100% contribution, but lack of control, composure, rushed, wrong decision making in last third. 

I feel the squad have been fashioned in many ways around him. 

He's a great attribution for professionalism, desire, athletism, 100mins full on, hardly any injuries. 

He is hard to drop for all of that. 

But I often think if we didn't have Weimann how we would play differently. 

A big conundrum, as he offers a lot at this level, but blocks other ways of playing in others. 

 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Dave i haven't read much on here on your view on Manning. i can see your keeping your powder dry but beside the fact that it was shit that Pearson was sacked, do you think he's a decent appointment?

Not talking about the next 5 or 6 games or weather he gets a couple of quid in January do you think he's a good fit?

On paper he’s a decent appointment because, importantly, he matches the brief set by JL and Tins!

That’s slightly facetious and a dig at them, not Manning…because apart from Manning will be on the grass coaching rather than Nige predominantly delegating…I’ve not really heard anything different in what they said they wanted than what Nige was trying to do and had built towards.

In simple terms Manning should be about continuity, a bit of evolution…not a big chance, Revolution.

But we shall see.

As for Manning, pretty much everything I’ve heard sounds “solid”.  But, and that’s not a negative “but”, what I hear so far is him talking about “his theory” on his favourite subject…and most of us feel comfy talking about our favourite subject.  So, I think he comes across well in that respect.

In terms of his teams, I only have limited knowledge of him from watching MK Dons in their playoff season, and Oxford pre season and the cup game, and stuff I’ve researched since in became a strong rumour he was coming.  I’m not hugely worried about signings he made / money spent, because I think you can spin that however you want, and I’m not close enough to know the context.  But my view of his teams is that he’s adaptive to what he has at his disposal.

I do not believe he is wedded to a single style, to playing Martin-ball, that was more circumstantial from following Martin at MK Dons, because he’s not played the same way at Oxford.  He has said he isn’t too, so that bodes well if he is true to his words.

So I’m really open-minded.

But I have set my expectations, posted this the other day:

I think my expectations are fair.  Happy if others disagree, on either side.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Really pleased to hear Matty James say exactly what I've been saying for ages. As have others. Never understood how many times we risked the hero ball on a sixpence, to only lose possession and go back under pressure and out of shape. Imo...done because it was thought we didn't have the players to build and break down with possession. Now Manning is trying it out with the same players. It will be an interesting watch as to whether they are capable. However his quote reads oddly...fine margin between ' rushed attack'...and...' fast attacking football'. Quote..

It’s just being a little bit more patient as we move up the field,” James said. “I think sometimes we’ve rushed attacks in the past and given back needless possession when we didn’t really need to. If a team’s dropped off then we can’t really keep going in behind, we have to build a different way, but the gaffer wants to play fast, attacking football.

Is there a contradiction between being patient and fast attacking football? You can't really do both at the same time? 

With Nige he had to pretty much make do with the players he had available. Very little funds and had to rely on academy players. 

I don't think we have the players to play the intricate delicate dominating football that Manning seems to want us to play, neither did Nige. Nige played a system which he thought suited the players we had. Nige was very adaptable in that regard.

My worry is that we don't have the players Manning wants to play his system and because that system is part of his principles, he may not be adaptable and we are going to have to adapt go him which means bringing in players to suit his system. Which is kinda bizarre considering the brief was to enhance upon what we had been doing under Nige.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Is there a contradiction between being patient and fast attacking football? You can't really do both at the same time? 

With Nige he had to pretty much make do with the players he had available. Very little funds and had to rely on academy players. 

I don't think we have the players to play the intricate delicate dominating football that Manning seems to want us to play, neither did Nige. Nige played a system which he thought suited the players we had. Nige was very adaptable in that regard.

My worry is that we don't have the players Manning wants to play his system and because that system is part of his principles, he may not be adaptable and we are going to have to adapt go him which means bringing in players to suit his system. Which is kinda bizarre considering the brief was to enhance upon what we had been doing under Nige.

Hence my comment..' reads oddly'...as in contradicts. 

Either the players adapt or they don't. 

Time will tell. 

Does Manning have the ability to judge whether change is possible with this squad at Championship level?

Nige imo...would have that knowledge. 

I look at the players in our squad,  and I don't think we have the ability to play possession based football at a fast, through the lines, front foot format, on a regular week in week out basis this season, that will see us pressure the top 6. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Blimey Dave, you've read my mind. That's exactly how I see it. 

It's been going on since LJs tenure. 

I'm glad you spoke of Weimann in that way, as it's not overly critical. But imo your observation is like mine. 

He's the one player that I'm interested to see how he adapts to Manning's way of playing. More than any other. 

He is excellent at pulling players, creating space. But imo, his weakness is rushed movement into a miniscule space, expecting a hero ball on a sixpence, then not having the technical ability to control said ball. Intention that if Messi...ability of Weimann.

It may sound harsh...but he ipotomises how we have played the last 4 years. 

Full of energy and effort, 100% contribution, but lack of control, composure, rushed, wrong decision making in last third. 

I feel the squad have been fashioned in many ways around him. 

He's a great attribution for professionalism, desire, athletism, 100mins full on, hardly any injuries. 

He is hard to drop for all of that. 

But I often think if we didn't have Weimann how we would play differently. 

A big conundrum, as he offers a lot at this level, but blocks other ways of playing in others. 

 

He of course excelled in the WSM, and I liked him in Holden’s 5122 as a flying eight (although I thought it was hugely attacking) until he did his ACL less than 10 games into the season.  Both those systems were very attacking when we got the ball…maybe why it suited him.

I’m intrigued to see how we shape up.

[One Team]

Just watched his pre match interview. As someone who has been critical so far I have to say it was easily his best interview yet. It’s a low bar but there was something different to it, although the Johnsonisms are jarring.

Disappointing to see the injury curse persists with Atkinson and Benarous, but hopefully Wells is back soon at least. 

Obviously it’s all about tomorrow though and seeing an improvement. 

[RedM]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

Blimey Dave, you've read my mind. That's exactly how I see it. 

It's been going on since LJs tenure. 

I'm glad you spoke of Weimann in that way, as it's not overly critical. But imo your observation is like mine. 

He's the one player that I'm interested to see how he adapts to Manning's way of playing. More than any other. 

He is excellent at pulling players, creating space. But imo, his weakness is rushed movement into a miniscule space, expecting a hero ball on a sixpence, then not having the technical ability to control said ball. Intention that if Messi...ability of Weimann.

It may sound harsh...but he ipotomises how we have played the last 4 years. 

Full of energy and effort, 100% contribution, but lack of control, composure, rushed, wrong decision making in last third. 

I feel the squad have been fashioned in many ways around him. 

He's a great attribution for professionalism, desire, athletism, 100mins full on, hardly any injuries. 

He is hard to drop for all of that. 

But I often think if we didn't have Weimann how we would play differently. 

A big conundrum, as he offers a lot at this level, but blocks other ways of playing in others. 

 

Agreed. I'm a great fan of Weimann but the last injury seems to be hard for him to return from. But even putting that aside we are largely predictable in how we play to him.

It's a great plan A when it worked, but when it doesn't it's just too easy for the opposition to defend against. Any other attacking player is left feeding off scraps.

We are massively missing Wells who seems to be able to link in other players in the way Andi doesn't. 

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

Just watched his pre match interview. As someone who has been critical so far I have to say it was easily his best interview yet. It’s a low bar but there was something different to it, although the Johnsonisms are jarring.

Disappointing to see the injury curse persists with Atkinson and Benarous, but hopefully Wells is back soon at least. 

Obviously it’s all about tomorrow though and seeing an improvement. 

What is there to be critical of? He's only been here two minutes

[cidercity1987]

Liam's alright, I might start to like him if he never says 'behaviours' again

[Port Said Red]

On 22/11/2023 at 12:00, Spreadsheet Man said:

Haha, come on David, don't be like that. Mexico was a life-changing experience. The tacos, the tequila, the whole enchilada – they've all conspired to turn me into the Bantersaurus rex you see before you. Who knew that guacamole had such transformative powers? Now armed with a sombrero of satire and a poncho of puns, I'm ready to unleash a fiesta of "bants" upon the world. It's like I've unlocked the secret level of humour, and Mexico was the key. Ole!

Ai! Caramba! 

[One Team]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Liam's alright, I might start to like him if he never says 'behaviours' again

Don’t forget principles!

[Phileas Fogg]

On 22/11/2023 at 13:34, Ronnie Sinclair said:

If my boss was hovering all the time they'd get short shrift, people have to be left alone to do their job 

Perhaps another way of looking at it is that the club are serious about fostering an ‘identity’ across the club, so more involvement with Tinnion helps to implement that outside of the first team.