Grumblers need to get a grip - article

[italian dave]

10 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Exactly how I saw it. Didn't feel too much difference than how we would play under NP at home. Found it funny the likes of Ian Gay were now suddenly lapping it up this patient style of play. It was the same kind of performance we'd get under Nige.

Yes, but I felt that ‘minor stuff’ that @Davefevs refers to are hints at what will become a bit more evident as Manning gets bedded in. More balls to feet, more variation - wide players drifting in for example, playing through the middle rather than over the top, and more patient waiting for the right opportunity.

Interesting times ahead! 

[eardun]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 In some respects I liked how we “bored” Boro a bit, made them try to play a bit riskier, then pounced.  

Rope-a-dope like Ali v Foreman! 

[redkev]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

I can see where he’s coming from mind. Some of the comments around me when it was 0-0 and we were keeping a team who’d won 9 of 11 at arms length was ridiculous. You’d have thought we were 3-0 down. 
 

We’re going to play a new way, we’re two games into the adaptation. BUT if points keep coming, I’ll take a boring opening half hour all day long.

Even though I like others thought the first 30 were a tad turgid I can very much see why we played that way .

playing a team who have just beat top of the table and are on a fine run of form against us who just love losing home games , imagine if Boro had gone 1 or 2 up early doors with there current form & confidence they would have swept us aside so to starve them of much possession and keep the game very passive made perfect sense to me for this fixture 

oh and it worked 3-2 winners if my memory serves me correctly 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

20 minutes ago, redkev said:

Even though I like others thought the first 30 were a tad turgid I can very much see why we played that way .

playing a team who have just beat top of the table and are on a fine run of form against us who just love losing home games , imagine if Boro had gone 1 or 2 up early doors with there current form & confidence they would have swept us aside so to starve them of much possession and keep the game very passive made perfect sense to me for this fixture 

oh and it worked 3-2 winners if my memory serves me correctly 

 

The thing is Jon Lansdown came out and said things like we were looking to play attacking front foot football and that our new head coach would need to fit into to that mould. 

Manning isn't that. Maybe at times he is. But one of his principles are "if the opponent doesn't have the ball, they can't score" 

Maybe if JL and Tins had said we were looking for a style like Mannings then more people would be on board with it?

But how it was framed was entirely different to what we saw on Saturday and at QPR. 

That's my issue anyways. 

I'm not smart enough to know the difference but it seems like this is a lot like how SOD played? 

History tells us Ashton Gate doesn't like that style of football.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not really commenting on the content of his opinions. But more so about his aggressiveness towards others who have a different opinion to him. 

It's been quite a regular feature recently by him and I think it's uncalled for. 

I'm not telling him he needs to get a grip because he may have different opinions than my own. It's almost as if he is trying to stoke the fire. 

Ah, got you….soz, see the point you were making now.

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Exactly how I saw it. Didn't feel too much difference than how we would play under NP at home. Found it funny the likes of Ian Gay were now suddenly lapping it up this patient style of play. It was the same kind of performance we'd get under Nige.

I know.

[luke_bristol]

40 minutes ago, redkev said:

 

oh and it worked 3-2 winners if my memory serves me correctly 

 

Exactly the sort of smarmy comment that Matt Withers is being accused of. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I sit in the South Stand too, and was pretty annoyed with shouts of 'get it forward' from some fans around me.

Having followed our glorious club home and away for 49 years, I can confirm that every goal I’ve ever seen us score has been as a result of us getting the ball forward ... if you get the ball forward you get closer to your opponents’ goal - and you are then naturally more likely to score - the opposite of what annoyed you is ‘getting it backwards’ - hardly a footballing tactic likely to produce goals ... 

[CityReds]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The thing is Jon Lansdown came out and said things like we were looking to play attacking front foot football and that our new head coach would need to fit into to that mould. 

Manning isn't that. Maybe at times he is. But one of his principles are "if the opponent doesn't have the ball, they can't score" 

Maybe if JL and Tins had said we were looking for a style like Mannings then more people would be on board with it?

But how it was framed was entirely different to what we saw on Saturday and at QPR. 

That's my issue anyways. 

I'm not smart enough to know the difference but it seems like this is a lot like how SOD played? 

History tells us Ashton Gate doesn't like that style of football.

Manning literally said tonight that he wants to be playing attacking football

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Yes, but I felt that ‘minor stuff’ that @Davefevs refers to are hints at what will become a bit more evident as Manning gets bedded in. More balls to feet, more variation - wide players drifting in for example, playing through the middle rather than over the top, and more patient waiting for the right opportunity.

Interesting times ahead! 

Indeed, and it’s about evolution rather than revolution…everytime i hear LM I believe he knows that there wasn’t a lot wrong, and it’s tweaks required.

12 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The thing is Jon Lansdown came out and said things like we were looking to play attacking front foot football and that our new head coach would need to fit into to that mould. 

Manning isn't that. Maybe at times he is. But one of his principles are "if the opponent doesn't have the ball, they can't score" 

Maybe if JL and Tins had said we were looking for a style like Mannings then more people would be on board with it?

But how it was framed was entirely different to what we saw on Saturday and at QPR. 

That's my issue anyways. 

I'm not smart enough to know the difference but it seems like this is a lot like how SOD played? 

History tells us Ashton Gate doesn't like that style of football.

I think you’re right with the use of cliches like forward thinking attacking football.  What they’ve told (sold) us isn’t what we’ve got.  Thankfully some of us know that, can see through it, and kinda know what we will get with Manning and it’s generally positive.

I still think Ashton Gate likes winning football above style.

I enjoyed Saturday’s performance, not because it was exciting, not because it forward thinking attacking football.  Yeah, there were a few little different things.  I enjoyed it because we won, and because I still saw the identity of a hardworking team, who’ll run for each other, aren’t blessed with pure quality, but will put in 100%.  And I thought we just about deserved the three points.  I don’t think we’ve always got the points we’ve deserved this season.

And maybe we have a manager, a lucky managers, whose team gets penalties.

[redkev]

13 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Exactly the sort of smarmy comment that Matt Withers is being accused of. 

Actually I have no affiliation on don’t care what he said it’s not about him 

I am just stating a fact we won 3-2 did we not 

[redkev]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed, and it’s about evolution rather than revolution…everytime i hear LM I believe he knows that there wasn’t a lot wrong, and it’s tweaks required.

I think you’re right with the use of cliches like forward thinking attacking football.  What they’ve told (sold) us isn’t what we’ve got.  Thankfully some of us know that, can see through it, and kinda know what we will get with Manning and it’s generally positive.

I still think Ashton Gate likes winning football above style.

I enjoyed Saturday’s performance, not because it was exciting, not because it forward thinking attacking football.  Yeah, there were a few little different things.  I enjoyed it because we won, and because I still saw the identity of a hardworking team, who’ll run for each other, aren’t blessed with pure quality, but will put in 100%.  And I thought we just about deserved the three points.  I don’t think we’ve always got the points we’ve deserved this season.

And maybe we have a manager, a lucky managers, whose team gets penalties.

I really dont understand some of our supporters perhaps that haven’t been around watching in Div 4 and the slide down the leagues ,   But how they can start judging a manager over 2 games Jesus Christ at least give him 10 games and I mean at the least .

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, CityReds said:

Manning literally said tonight that he wants to be playing attacking football

I think the point WSM is making is that often “attacking football” is joined with “fast”, “forward thinking”, “high press” words by people (inc those at the club), when it hasn’t really been much / anything like that in LM’s first two games.  

[Slack]

I mean surely what we are watching is the building blocks, who's to say attacking front foot can't also work in this system? Keep the ball, pick out timings and batter opponents

Can't remember the last time we were comfortable at home and against Boro we done well

Edit:Not saying Saturday was comfortable but far more relaxed than usual 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Slack
Adding

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, redkev said:

I really dont understand some of our supporters perhaps that haven’t been around watching in Div 4 and the slide down the leagues ,   But how they can start judging a manager over 2 games Jesus Christ at least give him 10 games and I mean at the least .

Some people want to prove themselves right asap, whichever side of the fence they are on.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Slack said:

I mean surely what we are watching is the building blocks, who's to say attacking front foot can't also work in this system? Keep the ball, pick out timings and batter opponents

Can't remember the last time we were comfortable at home and against Boro we done well

I think that’s kind of it.  When you add “front foot” to “attacking football” it implies something different to just saying “attacking football”.  That’s why I think the words are a bit dangerous unless you start to go deep into what underpins it for LM.

[redkev]

2 minutes ago, Slack said:

I mean surely what we are watching is the building blocks, who's to say attacking front foot can't also work in this system? Keep the ball, pick out timings and batter opponents

Can't remember the last time we were comfortable at home and against Boro we done well

That’s exactly how Man City play , don’t get me wrong when the time is right they slice through like a knife through butter then have some bloke called Harland ( who ain’t bad up front ) but Man City do also spend a lot of time just waiting for the opening popping the ball about going nowhere and drawing opponents out . 

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed, and it’s about evolution rather than revolution…everytime i hear LM I believe he knows that there wasn’t a lot wrong, and it’s tweaks required.

I think you’re right with the use of cliches like forward thinking attacking football.  What they’ve told (sold) us isn’t what we’ve got.  Thankfully some of us know that, can see through it, and kinda know what we will get with Manning and it’s generally positive.

I still think Ashton Gate likes winning football above style.

I enjoyed Saturday’s performance, not because it was exciting, not because it forward thinking attacking football.  Yeah, there were a few little different things.  I enjoyed it because we won, and because I still saw the identity of a hardworking team, who’ll run for each other, aren’t blessed with pure quality, but will put in 100%.  And I thought we just about deserved the three points.  I don’t think we’ve always got the points we’ve deserved this season.

And maybe we have a manager, a lucky managers, whose team gets penalties.

I think that's what I'm annoyed by Dave. No problem with Manning and his appointment. But it's more things like "for the first time we know what we are looking for" and then they appoint someone who likes to play differently to what they said they was looking for. You get what I mean? It's a continuation of them saying one thing and doing another. So many contridictions.

Underneath the surface a lot of fans are still really annoyed by those things. Things like "we sacked Nige because we think we should be challenging and have made that decision to give us the best possible chance of promotion this season. But then refuse to put Manning under the same pressures. Also things like saying we had a top 10 budget and then admitting we don't. 

Its just the constant deceit. It's not even about the sacking of Nige. It's just that communication is all over the place. I'm not sure I'd believe JL if he told me today was Monday. 

I think if they would have said they were looking for Mannings style and then appointed Manning, there would be more buy in from fans. But QPR and Saturday was rather different to what fans had been sold. Me and you may have expected it but others don't necessarily go back and watch how Oxford played or what Manning said in interviews. 

Personally I think Ashton Gate likes a more Liverpool type of football rather than Man City sort of football. Ashton Gate loves a crunching tackle. Dribbles down the wing, players that are committed etc..

I'm not saying it's true but when it's just being passed between defenders, whilst you can see what they are trying to do, it can come across as a bit of lazy football hence the shouts of "get it forward" 

It's absolutely fantastic we got the win on Saturday but TGH isn't going to score a wonder goal every week. It will be interesting to see how a game goes when it remains a stalemate. 

TGH scoring drew Boro out which then opened the game out. But without that wonder goal I do wonder how the game would have went. 

I absolutely respect that you view the game differently to me. And I'm sure you do the same with me. I just don't things like Matt saying he was arguing/debating with his mate because they both wanted different things. If people want to shout "get it forward" no problem. If Matt wants to shout "keep the ball and be patient and wait for the opportunity" again no problem. Just no need for people to get at each other.

[CityReds]

At the end of the day AG likes winning. Fans will get used to it and they’ll accept it. No one will be stupid enough not to turn up just because we decide to keep the ball more.

Edited November 27, 2023 by CityReds

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the point WSM is making is that often “attacking football” is joined with “fast”, “forward thinking”, “high press” words by people (inc those at the club), when it hasn’t really been much / anything like that in LM’s first two games.  

Yes exactly that, thank you Dave. 

It's just that on the face of it, we've got different to what we were told we were looking for. The language has changed from bringing in a headcoach who can come in and immediately make us play better attacking front foot football which will make us challange now to "we are going to have to be patient whilst Liam coaches our players to play his style of football and therefore promotion this season is therefore not the expectation" 

[CityReds]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes exactly that, thank you Dave. 

It's just that on the face of it, we've got different to what we were told we were looking for. The language has changed from bringing in a headcoach who can come in and immediately make us play better attacking front foot football which will make us challange now to "we are going to have to be patient whilst Liam coaches our players to play his style of football and therefore promotion this season is therefore not the expectation" 

I understand, but have you ever seen a coach come in and instantly transform a team? The only time that occasionally happens is with a relegation team who quite possibly can’t get worse!

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, CityReds said:

I understand, but have you ever seen a coach come in and instantly transform a team? The only time that occasionally happens is with a relegation team who quite possibly can’t get worse!

The point I'm making is the language used by JL and Tinnion was that we were not looking for transformation playing wise. Evolution not revolution. 

"We've made the decision to part ways with Nigel now to give the new head coach the best possible chance of achieving our objectives of promotion this season" 

[transfer reader]

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the point WSM is making is that often “attacking football” is joined with “fast”, “forward thinking”, “high press” words by people (inc those at the club), when it hasn’t really been much / anything like that in LM’s first two games.  

Is it not more pertinent to remind people that it's just 2 games in and one of those was against one of, if not the form side in the division who had just won 7 from 9 games and are very capable of scoring themselves. 

Even if Manning hadn't been a new manager, I think it would be unreasonable to be overly critical about a more pragmatic approach to the Middlesbrough game.

 

If we had the best squad in the league I wouldn't have that view, because the top sides should be able to impose their style on any game, but a mid-tablish side against on that should be playoffs minimum are going to have to make concessions.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Is it not more pertinent to remind people that it's just 2 games in and one of those was against one of, if not the form side in the division who had just won 7 from 9 games and are very capable of scoring themselves. 

Even if Manning hadn't been a new manager, I think it would be unreasonable to be overly critical about a more pragmatic approach to the Middlesbrough game.

 

If we had the best squad in the league I wouldn't have that view, because the top sides should be able to impose their style on any game, but a mid-tablish side against on that should be playoffs minimum are going to have to make concessions.

I kinda get this time but playoffs minimum for Middlesbrough is pushing it a bit.

Impressive side sure but I'd say playoffs which they could win, is about their level. Form since mid September fantastic but they don't have the quality and depth of the 3 relegated sides.

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, CityReds said:

At the end of the day AG likes winning. Fans will get used to it and they’ll accept it. No one will be stupid enough not to turn up just because we decide to keep the ball more.

That’s a leap of faith if we aren’t winning.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Is it not more pertinent to remind people that it's just 2 games in and one of those was against one of, if not the form side in the division who had just won 7 from 9 games and are very capable of scoring themselves. 

Even if Manning hadn't been a new manager, I think it would be unreasonable to be overly critical about a more pragmatic approach to the Middlesbrough game.

 

If we had the best squad in the league I wouldn't have that view, because the top sides should be able to impose their style on any game, but a mid-tablish side against on that should be playoffs minimum are going to have to make concessions.

That’s kinda the point though.  You’re calling it pragmatic, I’m calling it similar….yet some fans are calling it fast, forward, high press, front foot, forward thinking, because that’s what they’ve been told we are getting.  And because we won that’s what they think we got.

Im just pleased that LM comes across as having tonnes more substance than a few buzzwords.  I hope he can translate that onto the pitch.  He feels “genuine” though.

[George Rs]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That’s kinda the point though.  You’re calling it pragmatic, I’m calling it similar….yet some fans are calling it fast, forward, high press, front foot, forward thinking, because that’s what they’ve been told we are getting.  And because we won that’s what they think we got.

Im just pleased that LM comes across as having tonnes more substance than a few buzzwords.  I hope he can translate that onto the pitch.  He feels “genuine” though.

Exactly this. In reality, no matter who’s saying them the words “front foot”, “forward thinking” and “attacking football” are relatively moot. Every team wants to score and every team wants to win. You need to attack to do that. 

Would I have liked us to have more shots on target in the first 30? Yes. But I wasn’t at all unhappy about how we played. The words I’d use are “controlled” “thoughtful” and to some degree “unpredictable” to describe how we played. 
 

Some people hear the words front foot attacking football and instantly think prime Brazil or 17/18 Man City. Which is why I understand why some might be annoyed at JL using them to describe how we want to play. In reality they are big phrases with not a lot of actual meaning. 

 

[David Brent]

I thought ‘Math’ summed it up quite well 

[JP Hampton]

8 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The thing is Jon Lansdown came out and said things like we were looking to play attacking front foot football and that our new head coach would need to fit into to that mould. 

Manning isn't that. Maybe at times he is. But one of his principles are "if the opponent doesn't have the ball, they can't score" 

Maybe if JL and Tins had said we were looking for a style like Mannings then more people would be on board with it?

But how it was framed was entirely different to what we saw on Saturday and at QPR. 

That's my issue anyways. 

I'm not smart enough to know the difference but it seems like this is a lot like how SOD played? 

History tells us Ashton Gate doesn't like that style of football.

  I can understand your frustration because of what was muted by JL etc. but just to play devil’s advocate for a moment , I would say that you’re presuming that the style of play we saw on Saturday for much of the first half, is the finished article. 
 

  Maybe he’s going back to basics, retaining the ball, possession and ultimately control, reminding players the answer isn’t always passing forward, especially at the risk of losing the ball, wouldn’t some fans be then moaning that we give the ball away to cheaply?
 The play we saw also doesn’t mean that the front foot, forward, attacking football won’t follow. 

  Perhaps in studying our style of play, which I’m sure he’s done, Manning has seen it’s an area that needs improvement .
 

  As to the comments that fans got a bit negative/frustrated with the first half an hour or so. I think in fairness it’s not surprising, given that the ultimate in entertainment at a match, is seeing your team score, we want the excitement of seeing our team creating opportunities.  I believe if we continue to play this possession football, but end up winning more games, the moaning will soon stop, because fans will see it has value.   

  

[Sir Geoff]

13 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-grumblers-need-grip-8935839

 

Is there any need for this antagonising comment from Matt? I think he also said something quite antagonising in the aftermath of Pearsons departure. 

I used to really enjoy the 3peeps podcast. Matt is entitled to his opinion, just like we all are. But hearing him telling fans their opinions are essential wrong doesn't feel right to me. He sounds as if he is out of touch with the fanbase. He sounds as if he is a Bristol Sport employee or due to his connections to the club, he wants to keep them happy.

The reality we are in is that we have some fans like Matt that are very excited about Manning and at the opposite end of the spectrum we have people that are still really pissed off with the whole situation and the owners and its okay for people to feel whatever they want to feel. The atmosphere at Ashton Gate on Saturday suggests the fan base isn't exactly full of excitement like Matt is. 

Matt often speaks quite openly about mental health and is a big advocate of that and I massively applaud that. As a Bristol City fan, the last month has been quite stressful and full of emotions. So Matt, if you're reading this, please do consider that antagonising comments are probably not needed during a time when fans have gone through a range of emotions. I don't think it's right to dismiss others feelings in such an antagonising manner.

 



 

 

Stopped listening to three peaps even though it used to be my preferred City podcast. Matt definitely spouting the 'party' line.

[Johnny Musicworks]

The impatience of some fans is understandable. For the last few years we are used to seeing other teams come to Ashton Gate and dominate possession. The real problem has been that, at least in the recent past, our players have been impatient too. When they have got the ball they have attempted to get it forward too quickly, more often than not conceding possession within 2 or 3 touches.

Criticism of Max and his distribution and lack of confidence in our defenders to play out from the back leads to a noticeable nervousness for many fans.
Mistakes will be made but first the fear factor needs to be removed from the players and criticising the likes of TGH for pass-backs doesn’t help players gain confidence. Fans won’t suddenly become patient overnight but with the right coaching players can. One poster mentioned that historically Ashton Gate doesn’t like that type of football. One could argue that historically Ashton Gate has yet to see Premier League football and maybe that’s not unconnected.