Gary O’Neil - VAR

[Denbury Red]

9 hours ago, Jose said:

The amount of decisions going against them this season is farcical.

Very similar to the number of penalty shouts we had (until Saturday) that went against us - the standard of refereeing across the leagues is just shocking - with or without VAR

[Bris Red]

All the game ever needed was goal line technology IMHO, var has been a complete mess unsurprisingly.

[BCFC Rich]

31 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

All the game ever needed was goal line technology IMHO, var has been a complete mess unsurprisingly.

I agree, I think the only potential way of saving it is to give teams a single challenge if they feel a decision is wrong. Something a little more like tennis - If you challenge and are successful keep the challenge if you are wrong you lose it. It would make sure the game is so stop-start. It hasn't removed mistakes anyway, so just except their will be imperfect decisions and that this is part of the game. 

[And Its Smith]

Wolves deserve at least a point from yesterdays game. Nobody can disagree with that. So just give them a point. It lessens the mistake. 

[kit]

The only positive I can really think that has come from var is that it seems to have cut down in some of the egregious diving in the penalty area. 

On balance var has made the game so much worse and I don't think it can be made to work.

I also think that since Howard Webb has come on board things have got worse, I always thought he was hugely overrated as a referre and aside from having good control and pointing stern fingers at players he still seemed to be able to drop massive clangers that got largely overlooked.

Whenever you hear refs talk you get the impression that its a bit of a clique and competance doesn't really matter so long as you're one of the lads to get on the elite list.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

 

For years now even a brush with the head has been enough for a red, it's been zero tolerance I would be surprised if there is no retrospective red.  Where this nonsense of it's a soft headbutt comes from I don't know.  Maybe it's because the wolves player didn't jump up and onto the floor with his face in his hands?

I don't know if the rules have been changed but I thought even the intention of doing a headbutt was a red card offence? So simply the movement of the head towards the player. 

[cider hoss rules]

The principle of VAR I’m fine with, just not the way it’s being used.

I would change it so there is one VAR official watching the screens, if something happens that doesn’t get called by the on field officials, he suggests the ref goes and looks at the pitch side monitor for him to review it.

The ref has a chance to see if he has got a call wrong and he can then change it, not be told by someone else to make a change. I would also cut down on the freeze frames and super slow-mo as they can often make something look a lot worse than when played at normal speed.

Whilst this might make it more tedious initially, and possibly slightly longer delays, in time I think the proper flow would return and players more likely to accept the decisions the ref makes as it is his and his alone call.

[Sheltons Army]

Penalty ( ‘Handball’ )against Newcastle in 6thmin of added on time in Paris

 

Their have been dozens of farcical decisions in recent years , but we might have a winner

Outrageous , farcical , laughable and makes the game a complete nonsense , and utter joke

Disgraceful

WTF

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[frenchred]

Another shocker for VAR against the Toon tonight.

Bin it off FFS 

[Lew-T]

That’s a shocker.  
 

Yes, Newcastle rode their luck a little bit, but to get undone by a decision like that feels unfair. But it’s Mbappe and PSG so you can guess why it was given…

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[Sheltons Army]

The UEFA guide to officials is it is NOT handball if the ball is reflected off a player onto his arm 

 

So , the clowns in VAR and the clown referee is

1) Not aware of the guidelines (Totally unacceptable incompetence ) - unlikely 

2) Corrupt

3) I’m not sure there can be a third

 

About time UEFA , in this case hailed those involved in on Thursday morning and ask that exact question

 

Then tell all those involved , they won’t be officiating in the competition for a minimum of two years,  and have to earn consideration to possibly return

 

Enough is enough 

18 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

It’s shouldn’t be handball - see above WSM

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The UEFA guide to officials is it is NOT handball if the ball is reflected off a player onto his arm 

 

So , the clowns in VAR and the clown referee is

1) Not aware of the guidelines (Totally unacceptable incompetence ) - unlikely 

2) Corrupt

3) I’m not sure there can be a third

 

About time UEFA , in this case hailed those involved in on Thursday morning and ask that exact question

 

Then tell all those involved , they won’t be officiating in the competition for a minimum of two years,  and have to earn consideration to possibly return

 

Enough is enough 

It’s not handball - see above WSM

All these different interpretations of the laws is really confusing. 

[Fammyfan]

I think there’s got to be an element of how much impact an incident happens and not just whether it’s hit the arm or whether it’s technically a foul. By this I mean the decisions that do not appear to have any clear intent.

Take tonight for example, it hits the chest and then the arm. The cross had already been blocked by the chest and the ball was no longer heading into dangerous territory so the ball hitting the arm hasn’t really disadvantaged PSG. (Had the cross directly hit the arm, it’s a dangerous cross blocked by an arm away from the body which should rightfully be given)

Last night, Wilson would have sprinted the ball out to the wing and it should be considered that he hasn’t been denied a substantial opportunity. Granted he’s been denied possession but there’s got to be some common sense applied in the sense that it’s more of a coming together and on that basis you’ve got to be looking for a decision that won’t be hugely impacting.

VAR is supposed to intervene for clear and obvious errors. Yet, had the penalty decision not been given at the end of the game last night, I can’t see that there would have been a huge amount of outrage, which would indicate that the initial decision to give a penalty was not a clear and obvious error.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Fammyfan

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Fammyfan said:

I think there’s got to be an element of how much impact an incident happens and not just whether it’s hit the arm or it’s a foul. By this I mean the decisions that do not appear to have any clear intent.

Take tonight for example, it hits the chest and then the arm. The cross had already been blocked by the chest so the ball hitting the arm hasn’t really disadvantaged PSG. (Had the cross directly hit the arm, it’s a dangerous cross blocked by an arm away from the body which should rightfully be given)

Last night, Wilson would have sprinted the ball out to the wing and it should be considered that he hasn’t been denied a substantial opportunity. Granted he’s been denied possession but there’s got to be some common sense applied in the sense that it’s more of a coming together and on that basis you’ve got to be looking for a decision that won’t be hugely impacting.

VAR is supposed to intervene for clear and obvious errors. Yet, had the penalty decision not been given at the end of the game last night, I can’t see that there would have been a huge amount of outrage, which would indicate that the initial decision to give a penalty was not a clear and obvious error.

But it stopped the ball getting to Mbappe who was lurking behind who would be likely to score from that position. 

[Fammyfan]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But it stopped the ball getting to Mbappe who was lurking behind who would be likely to score from that position. 

Even with a player of Mbappe’s quality, I don’t think he’d have got there ahead of Livramento after it hits the chest

[Harry]

Back to the wolves one last night. 
Players need to take responsibility. 
And the refs need to understand when they are being conned. 
 

Look at that first one where Cairney is ‘fouled’. 
Even though the wolves player made contact with the ball, let’s just say he DID make contact with Cairney’s left toe. 
If contact to the left toe is what is being judged, then how did this minor contact prevent Cairney from planting his RIGHT FOOT. 

LEFT toe touched DOES NOT mean you can’t plant your RIGHT foot! 

Cairney has purposely collapsed his body by not planting his right foot after his left toe was tickled. 
 

Surely the ref should look at that and conclude that the player has flopped and is therefore attempting to con the referee. The decision from VAR should be to book Cairney. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 28/11/2023 at 06:30, petehinton said:

Always really liked him since being a manager. Extremely articulate and clearly a very good coach too. 

Said it before, we'd've been better off in 2016/17 with LJ with his boots back on in midfield and GO'N in the "technical" area as HC .....

[Super]

Last night was a disgrace that decision is nonsense. Bin it off ffs.

[frenchred]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure. His hands were by his side and that was fine. He then lifted his arm when the ball was kicked and that's when the ball hit his arm so unfortunately it was hand ball because he made his body bigger.

The outrage by the likes of McCoist is hilarious. What they don't realise that they're doing is actually arguing that the laws are wrong. 

If you seriously think that's a penalty then I'm afraid your knowledge of football is sadly lacking!

[Northern Red]

That's not a penalty last night, however the threshold for handball seems to be lower in European competition for some reason. Can think of at least 3 or 4 involving English clubs in the CL this season that wouldn't have been given in the PL.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

If you seriously think that's a penalty then I'm afraid your knowledge of football is sadly lacking!

It's a penalty according to the laws and UEFAs interpretation of those laws. 

What you're doing is arguing that it shouldn't be a law without you realising that's what's you're doing. 

[Markthehorn]

50 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

That's not a penalty last night, however the threshold for handball seems to be lower in European competition for some reason. Can think of at least 3 or 4 involving English clubs in the CL this season that wouldn't have been given in the PL.

I suppose these refs probably think they will get into trouble if they don’t follow the guidelines set by their masters at the top rather than use common sense .

[Cowshed]

16 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't know if the rules have been changed but I thought even the intention of doing a headbutt was a red card offence? So simply the movement of the head towards the player. 

The laws have not changed. A attempted headbutt is violent conduct, and contact is not necessary.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct (thefa.com)

[Ian M]

13 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Penalty ( ‘Handball’ )against Newcastle in 6thmin of added on time in Paris

 

Their have been dozens of farcical decisions in recent years , but we might have a winner

Outrageous , farcical , laughable and makes the game a complete nonsense , and utter joke

Disgraceful

WTF

Every time I see someone say that sort of thing, I check against Wolves... and yes, they had had an identical penalty awarded against them this season by VAR. 

[Mattredrobin]

VAR really killing my passion for football I have no team in the Prem so it shouldn't bother me as much as it should.....but it does we shouldn't be talking about decisions 3-4 days later on things 

The laws don't help at all they need ripping up and re writing.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 28/11/2023 at 10:34, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I think they've ****** up the rules of the game in a quest for perfection.

• The flow is gone.
• The decisions are still questionable.
• The offside lines are mathematically questionable.

It needs fixing as it's a joke, as it is.  Slow disjointed and often wrong, at least the injustice at this level is because the ref is just shit.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/motion-capture-reveals-why-var-in-football-struggles-with-offside-decisions/

It's an interesting read 

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

Some of them do and have been just as bad at that. E.g Lee Mason being sacked last season for forgetting to draw the lines on an offside that was wrongly awarded.

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The refs were bad enough before but now that many of them are required for VAR the ones on the pitch are even worse. I wonder why recently retired refs can't do VAR

Ex referees do.

[Markthehorn]

13 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

VAR really killing my passion for football I have no team in the Prem so it shouldn't bother me as much as it should.....but it does we shouldn't be talking about decisions 3-4 days later on things 

The laws don't help at all they need ripping up and re writing.

Like handball just being handball or offside is offside ?

Not did it hit that part of his body or were they deliberately going for the ball etc which is all subjective.