Gary O’Neil - VAR

[Davefevs]

Worth a watch.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

[BCFC Rich]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

Agreed. Even more annoyingly if he had dropped to floor and rolled around clutching his face I bet it would have been a red. It just encourages the ridiculous over reactions you get sometimes. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, BCFC Rich said:

Agreed. Even more annoyingly if he had dropped to floor and rolled around clutching his face I bet it would have been a red. It just encourages the ridiculous over reactions you get sometimes. 

I was gonna say that. His honesty has cost his team there which just seems totally ridiculous. 

[Lrrr]

Amazon have been told their pundits can't criticise referees because the PL is worried they'll lose their referees to foreign leagues because the referees don't like the amount of criticism they get. Sky/BT have been told the same but just carry on because of how large their investment in English football is they know the PL can't really do anything about it, Amazon however who only have a small TV deal are easy to replace. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

The only way this mess gets sorted out in my opinion is by having either the ref or var ref having to explain their decisions. "No red card" is not good enough. If its not a red card for that headbutt, explain why it isn't. At the moment there is no accountability for this faceless people in the VAR room which isn't even at the stadium.

 

[slartibartfast]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Worth a watch.

 

Didn't know the result, but how did I guess Wolves had lost ?

[petehinton]

Always really liked him since being a manager. Extremely articulate and clearly a very good coach too. 

[Jose]

The amount of decisions going against them this season is farcical.

[Portland Bill]

6 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Amazon have been told their pundits can't criticise referees because the PL is worried they'll lose their referees to foreign leagues because the referees don't like the amount of criticism they get. Sky/BT have been told the same but just carry on because of how large their investment in English football is they know the PL can't really do anything about it, Amazon however who only have a small TV deal are easy to replace. 

The real problem is the amount of young referees who are quitting the game, assaults are now common practice in non league grassroots games. 
These ‘were’ the future referees. 

[East End Old Boy]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Worth a watch.

 

Stuart Attwell was the VAR “official” and took so long reviewing surely proves nothing was clear and obvious. Also surprised there wasn’t an intervention for a red!

[GlastonburyRed]

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

Edited November 28, 2023 by GlastonburyRed

[LondonBristolian]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The only way this mess gets sorted out in my opinion is by having either the ref or var ref having to explain their decisions. "No red card" is not good enough. If its not a red card for that headbutt, explain why it isn't. At the moment there is no accountability for this faceless people in the VAR room which isn't even at the stadium.

 

I think there is a lot they could do to simplify it. I just find it ridiculous that football spent years resisting implementing video technology and have then implemented it in such a heavy handed and unstructured way.
 

Any of - or a combination of - the following three things could simplify it massively:

1. VAR is only implemented when a manager requests and a manager can make one VAR request per half.

2. A panel of three VAR assessors watch footage back three times from three different angle. It is only a “clear and obvious error” if all three are unanimous from those three viewings that an error has been made.

3. VAR starts to work on the basis that the referee is right unless proven wrong. At the moment, VAR officials are acting as a separate arbitrator rather than an appeals process and that massively undermine’s the referee’s authority.

[1960maaan]

Wolves don't seem to be getting their share of decisions so far, can't wait until the "evens out over a season" kicks in they will be in Championship winning form.

Joking aside;
First Pen looks just wrong 
The headbutt , when not sent off the I don't think VAR overturn it as it could be seen as the guy standing up. Not that I necessarily think that, but I can see that argument. 
As for the taking of the Pens , I didn't think you were allowed to stop in the run up. Willian almost does for the first, I'll just about give him that he still has momentum, but the 2nd looks like he does stop.

Over this season and some of the decisions, O'Neil has shown some restraint . He has been very calm in his post match stuff that I've seen. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

18 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Wolves don't seem to be getting their share of decisions so far, can't wait until the "evens out over a season" kicks in they will be in Championship winning form.

Joking aside;
First Pen looks just wrong 
The headbutt , when not sent off the I don't think VAR overturn it as it could be seen as the guy standing up. Not that I necessarily think that, but I can see that argument. 
As for the taking of the Pens , I didn't think you were allowed to stop in the run up. Willian almost does for the first, I'll just about give him that he still has momentum, but the 2nd looks like he does stop.

Over this season and some of the decisions, O'Neil has shown some restraint . He has been very calm in his post match stuff that I've seen. 

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

That’s why the referee should have been told to review the head but incident - had that happened it would have been a red card.

[jj77]

1 hour ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

It's only for the TV audience which is probably why it was pushed so hard by the Tv companies in the first place.

It isn't much fun watching grass grow for 8 minutes at a time in the stadium.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

I don't think I phrased my reply very well.

What I meant is as the lad did it in one move, I could see VAR being of the opinion it wasn't clear enough to overturn themselves. They can't intervene with a yellow, but I think they can ask the Ref to look at the replay. That should have happened IMO. They seem scared at times to ask Refs to look , yet happy to take minutes looking at obvious decisions. 

[sludge]

9 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

Didn't know the result, but how did I guess Wolves had lost ?

Equally as surprising, Marco Silva seemed completely happy with VAR in his post match interview.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I think they've ****** up the rules of the game in a quest for perfection.

• The flow is gone.
• The decisions are still questionable.
• The offside lines are mathematically questionable.

It needs fixing as it's a joke, as it is.  Slow disjointed and often wrong, at least the injustice at this level is because the ref is just shit.

https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/motion-capture-reveals-why-var-in-football-struggles-with-offside-decisions/

It's an interesting read 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[Out of his pie crust]

If you have to watch a replay more than 3 times it’s not a clear and obvious error. Personally I’d get rid of it. Keep goal line technology which is fast, generally accurate and non subjective and accept that refs / Lino’s will make the odd error, at the benefit of the game flow.

[TV Tom]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I was gonna say that. His honesty has cost his team there which just seems totally ridiculous. 

If that was Grealish he would of rolled around the floor 10 times to ensure the guy was sent off (as would a huge majority of prem' players) the Wolves guy was far too honest

[Markthehorn]

37 minutes ago, Out of his pie crust said:

If you have to watch a replay more than 3 times it’s not a clear and obvious error. Personally I’d get rid of it. Keep goal line technology which is fast, generally accurate and non subjective and accept that refs / Lino’s will make the odd error, at the benefit of the game flow.

Exactly - people thought it would be perfect and there wouldn’t be any errors but we seem to get more debates than ever now.

Because it’s all very subjective and the VAR either sticks with their mate or the on field refs feel under pressure maybe from a more experienced officiating team to charge his mind .

Which why I am not even sure a review system would work tbh like in cricket .

Edited November 28, 2023 by Markthehorn

[Riaz]

4 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Might be in the minority here, and probably wouldn't agree if City were in the Prem/subject to VAR, but I love the extra drama and controversy it brings. It's the entertainment business after all.

As someone above alluded to, the managers only tend to chirps, as per, when the decisions go against them. A tale as old as time, whether the decisions are being made by man or machine...

Really?

It utterly kills the best bit of the match... a goal... Cant celebrate now... i hope its gone, if and when we go up.

[Curr Avon]

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That headbutt is a red card all day long. Shocking that they've not got involved it that.

 

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes VAR can take a look at the headbutt because it was a clear and obvious error for the ref to only issue a yellow for it when it should have been red. 

Var can't get involved in yellow card decisions unless it could be a red. 

 

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

For years now even a brush with the head has been enough for a red, it's been zero tolerance I would be surprised if there is no retrospective red.  Where this nonsense of it's a soft headbutt comes from I don't know.  Maybe it's because the wolves player didn't jump up and onto the floor with his face in his hands?

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

The real problem is the amount of young referees who are quitting the game, assaults are now common practice in non league grassroots games. 
These ‘were’ the future referees. 

It is almost like there is a synergy present where behaviours at the top manifest themselves throughout the game. I cant quite put my finger on the psychology where diminished respect for officialdom  at the games zenith is not mirrored at grass roots games .. 

[Lavington Robin]

2 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Yes, but it was a soft headbutt. 

 

Yep. Definitely a red card for poor execution 

[Will Rollason]

Here's my take. 

I think the system is flawed in that it's attempting to take error away from refereeing.

Unlike other sports a lot of football refereeing calls are subjective and It doesn't  matter how much VAR tries to be better or quicker or more professional it will STILL be subjective.

With Cricket, for instance,  the tech is there to help and is very useful objectively BUT if it's very tight or if there is any doubt it remains the umpires call which he made subjectively in the moment.

I believe this should be the case in football as well. A really good example is the 2nd Fulham penalty from the other night

The referee is in a great position and he decides, in the moment, it's not a penalty.

That's it. Thrat's enough for me,  we need to let the referees and assistants make their calls and,  critically,  accept it. We may agree or not but that's what the ref is for.

Mistakes will happen with offside/pens/cards but that has to be better than the current spectacle of endless slow-mo and freeze frames trying to justify getting the ref to change his call. 

How many of them have been brave enough to say "No" to the VAR? How many of them have had the nerve to say,  "Nope,I don't even need to see it again?"

Not many because there is now that fear that they might have got it wrong because they've been asked to watch it again. 

It's in danger of ruining our beautiful game. 

 

 

 

 

[supercidered]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

Really?

It utterly kills the best bit of the match... a goal... Cant celebrate now... i hope its gone, if and when we go up.

I don't think you need to worry yourself.

However, if they bring it to the Championship, I can only see things getting worse.