Forever Bristol City Podcast - SUNDERLAND [H] the verdict ..... we got away with that one & MOL was excellent

[Curr Avon]

DaveP is joined by Ian, Mark & Neil in assessing a hard earned victory against Top 6 opponents.

 

 

[Red Skin]

I'm not listening now.  You spoilt the ending.

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

 

[Sir Geoff]

Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!

[Curr Avon]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!

We discussed the feasibility of trying to loan Premier League players, at an educationally guessed minimum weekly wage of £25,000 for untried youngsters. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Curr Avon

[W-S-M Seagull]

15 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

We discussed the feasibility of trying to loan Premier League players, at an educationally guessed minimum weekly wage of £25,000 for untried youngsters. 

Ian does make me laugh with the BS he comes out with sometimes. 

He claimed someone told him that when the reality is he listened to a NP interview where he learned that information. 

He then claimed he knows someone very intelligent at the HPC who told him the difference in coaching is night and day. 

He then also claimed that someone told him that Alex Scott is on 12x his wages. A quick Google search or common sense will tell you that. 

It reminds me of when he said he was meeting with Steve Lansdown, but conveniently forgot to mention he'd be meeting him with 100 other senior reds. 

[2015]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!

Not only that, Ian posting on twitter about Saturday's game 'What's not to like?' 

Well it was a carbon copy of the 1-0 win vs Coventry under NP in October and he absolutely slated that very result/performance.

I feel disappointed a bit since the NP sacking as this was my go to City podcast, but they are desperate for the 'I Told you NP was no good' line.

[Tomo]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not only that, Ian posting on twitter about Saturday's game 'What's not to like?' 

Well it was a carbon copy of the 1-0 win vs Coventry under NP in October and he absolutely slated that very result/performance.

I feel disappointed a bit since the NP sacking as this was my go to City podcast, but they are desperate for the 'I Told you NP was no good' line.

Good point...

[2015]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Good point...

As I said, a carbon copy of that performance which Ian didn't like. Suddenly Saturday was clearly better and 'progressive'. 

The hypocrisy is nauseating.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not only that, Ian posting on twitter about Saturday's game 'What's not to like?' 

Well it was a carbon copy of the 1-0 win vs Coventry under NP in October and he absolutely slated that very result/performance.

I feel disappointed a bit since the NP sacking as this was my go to City podcast, but they are desperate for the 'I Told you NP was no good' line.

He also said yesterday that Coventry should have been 4 nil up by half time. 

I'm not sure that was the case at all but he'll say anything to be controversial and to add weight to his dislike of NP. 

I thought Sunderland were far more relentless than Coventry and whilst i also felt we were slightly lucky to win vs Coventry, Saturday's win was far more of a we got lucky there win. The stats certainly back that up too. 

Ian can't be taken seriously right now as everything he says is through the lens of his dislike of NP. His support of Manning is also down to that. 

You're summary is absolutely correct. 

[Tomo]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

As I said, a carbon copy of that performance which Ian didn't like. Suddenly Saturday was clearly better and 'progressive'. 

The hypocrisy is nauseating.

It was a gritty performance against Sunderland and Coventry. Yes, Coventry could have scored numerous times in the 1st half, but that also applies to Sunderland, who had more shots than Coventry.

Defensively we performed well. It's interesting that when we have less possession, our results are sometimes better....

 

[2015]

The truth is we beat Coventry and Sunderland because of how good we were at the back, along with some good goalkeeping on Saturday. Dickie has been very influential in these wins. Vyner was brilliant Saturday too. Everything else apart from that, pretty poor especially up front.

[2015]

Just now, Tomo said:

Defensively we performed well. It's interesting that when we have less possession, our results are sometimes better....

This side is suited better to being a counter attacking team. We do better against sides who prefer to have the lions share of possession. Hopefully Manning can see this and slowly evolve us in time to a more progressive, possession based side.

[Tomo]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

This side is suited better to being a counter attacking team. We do better against sides who prefer to have the lions share of possession. Hopefully Manning can see this and slowly evolve us in time to a more progressive, possession based side.

Agreed. At this time, it should be a case of making 'little steps' as the players have been used to a playing system for the best part of 3 years, albeit the system did change this time last year in terms of a back 4. Let's be honest, the players are a mid table side for now, so forget how many points we are off the play offs, until new signings are made....

Edited December 18, 2023 by Tomo

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

This side is suited better to being a counter attacking team. We do better against sides who prefer to have the lions share of possession. Hopefully Manning can see this and slowly evolve us in time to a more progressive, possession based side.

With his comments about he thinks he's overloaded the players, I'm hopeful, based on what I've seen, that he's learned that he went too gung ho in his approach and has rolled it back a bit since. 

The last bit was exactly what NP was doing. 

[Tomo]

In all fairness to FBC and I am a regular listener and throw in content via the chat threads, the title of this most recent episode is 'we got away with that' so the overall opinion from DP and the boys is not bumming up the performance.

Ian, on reflection, should realise the Coventry comparisons....

[2015]

11 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Agreed. At this time, it should be a case of making 'little steps' as the players have been used to a playing system for the best part of 3 years, albeit the system did change this time last year in terms of a back 4. Let's be honest, the players are a mid table side for now, so forget how many points we are off the play offs, until new signings are made....

I heard talk of the playoffs on the way out of AG Saturday and had to laugh to myself. This side aint nowhere near good enough based on performances i've seen, pre Nige and post Nige. You can't rely on winning games 1-0 every week, or by the odd goal every week.
If we add a goalscorer in January then who knows, but for now this is about where we are and it is something Liam can try and build upon.

Yes I was angry with the sacking, still am with BT and JL, but I'm not anti Liam or wanting him to fail either and I think if he slowly changes things over time his reign will work for the better.

10 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Ian, on reflection, should realise the Coventry comparisons....

Just desperate to say 'I told you so' it will help him sleep better at night.

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, Tomo said:

In all fairness to FBC and I am a regular listener and throw in content via the chat threads, the title of this most recent episode is 'we got away with that' so the overall opinion from DP and the boys is not bumming up the performance.

Ian, on reflection, should realise the Coventry comparisons....

I like it when @Davefevs is on there. He keeps Ian in check with just his presence.  

Ian keeps his controversial thoughts to a minimum when Dave is on there, most likely because he knows Dave can pick factual holes in those thoughts if need be. 

[Tomo]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I like it when @Davefevs is on there. He keeps Ian in check with just his presence.  

Ian keeps his controversial thoughts to a minimum when Dave is on there, most likely because he knows Dave can pick factual holes in those thoughts if need be. 

Ian is still good value and makes several good points but can also make some 'howler comments' as well, like the Coventry lucky win comparison, which mirrored Sunderland on Saturday. In both games, we defended well and let's be thankful that both teams didn't convert their chances. The Coventry forward line should have put the game to bed in the 1st half, but they didn't and our defensive unit improved after numerous scares.

That's just Ian. He says he had nothing against NP, but on occasions his comments go against that. I'm sure he will have a pop at Liam after a few more defeats

Onwards and upwards...

Edited December 18, 2023 by Tomo

[headhunter]

The "pile on" of criticism towards Ian Gay just proves my point that he is our very own Piers Morgan - people love to hate him but they still listen/watch.

Ignoring my own opinions, and just remember like any host, some are made to provoke debate I note no antipathy towards Neil or Mark.

On the topic of loans, which was a suggestion of mine, I had to laugh at @Sir Geoff who replied,  "Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!"  - @Curr Avon [Mark] has already corrected him in this thread with the reply that centred on the viability of paying unproven youngsters from the Prem a likely £25k per week and my point was that any loan signing had to be better than what we already had. For example, a "first pick" ahead of Mehmeti or Bell on the left side.

7000 downloads across all episodes in the past 30 days suggests we're doing something right!!!

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, headhunter said:

The "pile on" of criticism towards Ian Gay just proves my point that he is our very own Piers Morgan - people love to hate him but they still listen/watch.

 

You say that like it’s a good thing……

[2015]

10 minutes ago, headhunter said:

The "pile on" of criticism towards Ian Gay just proves my point that he is our very own Piers Morgan - people love to hate him but they still listen/watch.

Ignoring my own opinions, and just remember like any host, some are made to provoke debate I note no antipathy towards Neil or Mark.

On the topic of loans, which was a suggestion of mine, I had to laugh at @Sir Geoff who replied,  "Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!"  - @Curr Avon [Mark] has already corrected him in this thread with the reply that centred on the viability of paying unproven youngsters from the Prem a likely £25k per week and my point was that any loan signing had to be better than what we already had. For example, a "first pick" ahead of Mehmeti or Bell on the left side.

7000 downloads across all episodes in the past 30 days suggests we're doing something right!!!

I like your pod mate, I just aint having some of Ian's nonsense towards Nigel Pearson.

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

You say that like it’s a good thing……

Yep. How to make sure people never tune in.  

As if you need to anyway. 

[Davefevs]

56 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not only that, Ian posting on twitter about Saturday's game 'What's not to like?' 

Well it was a carbon copy of the 1-0 win vs Coventry under NP in October and he absolutely slated that very result/performance.

I feel disappointed a bit since the NP sacking as this was my go to City podcast, but they are desperate for the 'I Told you NP was no good' line.

That underpins so many of Ian’s views.  He initially was all for Nige when appointed, but then changed his view by the end of the season, because in Nige’s case he generally “analysed” by results, not context / other factors.  He get sucked into liking / disliking managers and loses objectivity…and consistency of his argument.

Dont get me wrong Coventry were well on top that first half and hour before we started to calm them down a bit.

Ian says 4-0.

@Kid in the Riot says 3-0

XG is not all defining, I accept that, but here’s their XG from the first half.

0.44.

Here are screenshots of those 7 chances:

I don’t see 3-0 or 4-0 from those chances.  Hitting the woodwork makes Sheaf’s chance appear better.  Shots from distance or through crowded penalty area.  Of course it’s possible a sense of relief that they had a goal disallowed for offside - correct decision btw.

 

[Tomo]

Mr Gay is marmite as @headhunter has highighted.

If we all agreed with each others views, it would be a boring podcast. 

To make it more valuable, Ian does need to be challenged on certain occasions by the rest of the podders, (without having a slamming match and accepting others opinions in a debate format).

Keep listening

[Tomo]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That underpins so many of Ian’s views.  He initially was all for Nige when appointed, but then changed his view by the end of the season, because in Nige’s case he generally “analysed” by results, not context / other factors.  He get sucked into liking / disliking managers and loses objectivity…and consistency of his argument.

Dont get me wrong Coventry were well on top that first half and hour before we started to calm them down a bit.

Ian says 4-0.

@Kid in the Riot says 3-0

XG is not all defining, I accept that, but here’s their XG from the first half.

0.44.

Here are screenshots of those 7 chances:

I don’t see 3-0 or 4-0 from those chances.  Hitting the woodwork makes Sheaf’s chance appear better.  Shots from distance or through crowded penalty area.  Of course it’s possible a sense of relief that they had a goal disallowed for offside - correct decision btw.

 

Spot on. Have you analysed the differences in detail yet @Davefevs between Cov and Sunderland?

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, headhunter said:

The "pile on" of criticism towards Ian Gay just proves my point that he is our very own Piers Morgan - people love to hate him but they still listen/watch.

Ignoring my own opinions, and just remember like any host, some are made to provoke debate I note no antipathy towards Neil or Mark.

On the topic of loans, which was a suggestion of mine, I had to laugh at @Sir Geoff who replied,  "Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!"  - @Curr Avon [Mark] has already corrected him in this thread with the reply that centred on the viability of paying unproven youngsters from the Prem a likely £25k per week and my point was that any loan signing had to be better than what we already had. For example, a "first pick" ahead of Mehmeti or Bell on the left side.

7000 downloads across all episodes in the past 30 days suggests we're doing something right!!!

I’d imagine £25k p.w for an unproven PL loanee is OTT.

I posted relatively recently (hypothetically) about what loanees we might go for, and in particular bracketed them into ones who’ve never had a loan (they won’t be £25k pw), those who have had a loan in say Lg1 versus one in the champ and those that have had a successful champ loan (your Archer’s, Ramsay’s etc).

That latter bracket are your big wage and / or loan fee players.  If we are running a tight ship they ought to be out of our range.  We anecdotally have a wage structure that tops-out at £15k(ish) per week!

Finding the right loan from an affordable bracket is the challenge…and when I say “right loan” I mean one who’ll make an impact.

Someone like TGH, not from PL I hasten to add, is the kinda profile I’d like to see, some experience at this level…and an option to buy.  We might not get that with a PL loan.

It us gonna be an interesting window…and one where we will see if we appear to be deviating from the recruitment strategy of the last 2+ years.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Spot on. Have you analysed the differences in detail yet @Davefevs between Cov and Sunderland?

What are you wanting analysed?

[Tomo]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What are you wanting analysed?

Mate, I collect football data, I don't analyse it in detail like yourself. I did all that stuff in my corporate days along time ago as a Data/Business Analyst

Looking at the simple Sky Sports stats, comparing the 2 games, I'm assuming Sunderland had a better XG to Coventry against us?

[Charlie BCFC]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He also said yesterday that Coventry should have been 4 nil up by half time. 

I'm not sure that was the case at all but he'll say anything to be controversial and to add weight to his dislike of NP. 

I thought Sunderland were far more relentless than Coventry and whilst i also felt we were slightly lucky to win vs Coventry, Saturday's win was far more of a we got lucky there win. The stats certainly back that up too. 

Ian can't be taken seriously right now as everything he says is through the lens of his dislike of NP. His support of Manning is also down to that. 

You're summary is absolutely correct. 

Sunderland are a much better side for me, if they make the right managerial appointment I’ll go as far as to say I think they’ll go up. 
 

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Haha, you've all spent 2 1/2 years bashing Pearson for not making any loan signings then spend 15 minutes arguing that loan signings are not a good idea. Unbelievable!!

I always understood the stance on loan players, realistically a waste of money with what prem clubs demand. If it’s the right deal (TGH for me is that) then why not but for the most part it looks a complete waste