Should we Re-merge the ex-players forum into football chat?

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Were you not one of the people to request the sub forum?

SUGGEST it might be an idea. Yes is my opinion a problem?

[Silvio Dante]

11 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Were you not one of the people to request the sub forum?

Indeed he was. And crucially his last paragraph in this thread confirms that people should have their say:

 

 

[Gazred]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

SUGGEST it might be an idea. Yes is my opinion a problem?

No, why would your opinion be a problem? Everyone is entitled to one as far as i'm concerned.

This one just didn't happen to be a popular one by the looks of it.

[Silvio Dante]

Crucially as well, @Maesknoll Red confirmed what would happen to the forum if it didn’t work:
 

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Indeed he was. And crucially his last paragraph in this thread confirms that people should have their say:

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Gazred said:

No, why would your opinion be a problem? Everyone is entitled to one as far as i'm concerned.

This one just didn't happen to be a popular one by the looks of it.

Exactly Free Speech is what it is you have your say I have mine. And if I don’t like what you say I have right of reply and so do you. This is how it works and continues to work. 
 

Free speech can get harder when people want to make someone that doesn’t agree with them the bad guy.

That’s been turned into an art form in the USA. 
 

But I have big shoulders. Big enough for a football forum. 
 

FOR THE RECORD.

 

I LIKE THE EX PLAYERS FORUM AND I DON’T CARE IF SOME PEOPLE THINK MY OPINION IS NOT POPULAR OR DISAGREE. 
 

Hope that’s clear. Now excuse me as me myself and I grapple with upsetting other people! And having a continued life!!

 

Edited January 2 by REDOXO

[1960maaan]

I like the sub forums, keeps busy threads neat and easy to access. Could be an argument for the gAss dustbin thread to go that way to stop it slipping down the pages. 

[lenred]

20 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I like the sub forums, keeps busy threads neat and easy to access. Could be an argument for the gAss dustbin thread to go that way to stop it slipping down the pages. 

That’s fair enough. But where does it stop? On the front page we currently have threads about Adam Hinshelwood (Brighton), Wayne Rooney (Brum), the colour of football boots and Rangers - all  of which I don’t care one jot about (but very much appreciate some people will) but posts about players and managers that I care about, because they are are related to our club,  are hidden away somewhere out of sight.  
As it’s a Bristol City forum I’d expect it to be the other way around, with non city related posts to be sub sectioned, if there are to be any splits at all (which I don’t think there should be).  

Edited January 2 by lenred

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, lenred said:

That’s fair enough. But where does it stop? On the front page we currently have threads about Adam Hinshelwood (Brighton), Wayne Rooney (Brum) and Rangers - all three of which I don’t care one jot about (but very much appreciate some people will) but posts about players and managers that I care about, because they are are related to our club,  are hidden away somewhere out of sight.  
As it’s a Bristol City forum I’d expect it to be the other way around, with non city related posts to be sub sectioned, if there are to be any splits at all (which I don’t think there should be).  

I think this is where again it comes down to engagement. Although I’m not a fan of the sub forums (other than the transfer forum), more than anything else I believe the majority view should hold sway so if the majority wanted them I’d suck it up.

Where things went wrong here is the total lack of engagement prior to the sub forum implementation. It was badly handled, but there was equally no harm in a trial period once it had been put in. We’re now two months in and I think all anyone is saying is let’s assess how the forum feel following that trial and then, in line with @Maesknoll Red said, re merge the forums if it doesn’t work. And in the absence of anything else to prove/disprove it doesn’t work, then the majority rule following the trial has to be the arbiter. That’s just good practice.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

That’s fair enough. But where does it stop? On the front page we currently have threads about Adam Hinshelwood (Brighton), Wayne Rooney (Brum), the colour of football boots and Rangers - all  of which I don’t care one jot about (but very much appreciate some people will) but posts about players and managers that I care about, because they are are related to our club,  are hidden away somewhere out of sight.  
As it’s a Bristol City forum I’d expect it to be the other way around, with non city related posts to be sub sectioned, if there are to be any splits at all (which I don’t think there should be).  

Yep, get that. But ex players and Managers usually pop up for a reason ( Birthday , Anniversary ,scoring etc ) and I think there is more chance of catching those on a separate forum as there wouldn't be as much activity. Where they could drop off the main page quickly.

Just my preference of course.

Edited January 2 by 1960maaan

[Gazred]

48 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

Exactly Free Speech is what it is you have your say I have mine. And if I don’t like what you say I have right of reply and so do you. This is how it works and continues to work. 
 

Free speech can get harder when people want to make someone that doesn’t agree with them the bad guy.

That’s been turned into an art form in the USA. 
 

But I have big shoulders. Big enough for a football forum. 
 

FOR THE RECORD.

 

I LIKE THE EX PLAYERS FORUM AND I DON’T CARE IF SOME PEOPLE THINK MY OPINION IS NOT POPULAR OR DISAGREE. 
 

Hope that’s clear. Now excuse me as me myself and I grapple with upsetting other people! And having a continued life!!

 

FWIW i don't think you or anyone else of the same opinion is a bad guy here. A difference of opinion is fine. It was suggested, tried and now being discussed as to if it should stay, that's all healthy without sides having to be formed about it. I'm not and i don't think anyone else is particularly upset about this.

[Colemanballs]

8 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Yep, get that. But ex players and Managers usually pop up for a reason ( Birthday , Anniversary ,scoring etc ) and I think there is more chance of catching those on a separate forum as there wouldn't be as much activity. Where they could drop off the main page quickly.

Just my preference of course.

You mean like the Tom Ritchie thread that's, as I write top of the main forum and which, were it to have been posted in the sub-forum as it should have been, would have received a fraction of the attention?

[East End Old Boy]

Learn something new everyday, as didn’t know there was a sub forum! Although, when I see a thread with multiple pages I very rarely read them these days - not a fan of everything being lumped together!

[Henry]

Seemed odd at the time but as @Silvio Dante says it was a trial. As a paying member of the site, I think he has the right to ask the question and not be dismissed by admin.

[Silvio Dante]

24 minutes ago, Henry said:

Seemed odd at the time but as @Silvio Dante says it was a trial. As a paying member of the site, I think he has the right to ask the question and not be dismissed by admin.

Thanks - all I’m really trying to do is establish now the trial has ended (and two months seems to be long enough), the forum view on whether it should stay. And the answer is one of two things:

- The majority of the forum don’t want it to stay so it should be remerged in line with @Maesknoll Reds post (I’d reiterate that as no “success” criteria was laid down in the trial then the only thing that can be used to gauge success is the forum view)

- The mods are of the mind it should stay, even though the majority don’t want it. And there is nothing wrong with that but it does draw a line in the sand as to who the forum is being run for and I’d imagine that will be a consideration when paying members come to renew

Either way avoiding the question is really disrespectful - not just to me, but to the majority of the forum who have expressed a view. Phantoms “answer” wasn’t an answer in any way as it just said “many requested it” with no quantification particularly when we do have an opinion gauge now.

Again, avoidance of doubt if only 20ish percent of people expressed a strong desire for it to go I’d happily go with that majority view.

[Henry]

36 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Thanks - all I’m really trying to do is establish now the trial has ended (and two months seems to be long enough), the forum view on whether it should stay. And the answer is one of two things:

- The majority of the forum don’t want it to stay so it should be remerged in line with @Maesknoll Reds post (I’d reiterate that as no “success” criteria was laid down in the trial then the only thing that can be used to gauge success is the forum view)

- The mods are of the mind it should stay, even though the majority don’t want it. And there is nothing wrong with that but it does draw a line in the sand as to who the forum is being run for and I’d imagine that will be a consideration when paying members come to renew

Either way avoiding the question is really disrespectful - not just to me, but to the majority of the forum who have expressed a view. Phantoms “answer” wasn’t an answer in any way as it just said “many requested it” with no quantification particularly when we do have an opinion gauge now.

Again, avoidance of doubt if only 20ish percent of people expressed a strong desire for it to go I’d happily go with that majority view.

There is form for it. Looks at some of the comms around the supporters trust. ‘Who cares’ was the reply to posters raising questions.

the forum is missing the overlord.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I have voted to retain the sub forum.

It was several days (weeks?) before I realised it existed, but now I am aware find it quite useful.

A random post on a former player, manager or whoever drops very quickly on the main site and, if one is absent from the forum for a day or so, is missed totally - at least, that is my experience.

Similarly, a quick glance at the sub forum sometimes reveals an interesting thread that would have gone unnoticed were it to have been on the main forum.

[James54De]

Merge it back. Ridiculous it was moved anyway. It is “football chat”, no? 

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I have voted to retain the sub forum.

It was several days (weeks?) before I realised it existed, but now I am aware find it quite useful.

A random post on a former player, manager or whoever drops very quickly on the main site and, if one is absent from the forum for a day or so, is missed totally - at least, that is my experience.

Similarly, a quick glance at the sub forum sometimes reveals an interesting thread that would have gone unnoticed were it to have been on the main forum.

And to be clear Phil, I totally respect that point of view (and again, if it was the majority I’d totally acquiesce to that).

This isn’t now about me or anyone else stamping our feet. This is simply about the forum being set up without consultation and then a trial period having occurred, and the results of that trial being clearly in favour of re-merging with only c20% in favour of retention when the mods confirmed if it didn’t work the forum would be re-merged

 I’m kind of of the mind it’s been discussed to death and the mods now need, to either re-merge or simply state they don’t want to.

[CS Red]

I'm guessing that the mods are unpaid volunteers?

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, CS Red said:

I'm guessing that the mods are unpaid volunteers?

They are, and again, the job they do is appreciated. But that is whataboutery.
 

This is simply mods stating there would be a trial of a forum (after it was implemented with no consultation), that trial now having results confirming it’s not wanted, and then asking the mods to either remerge in line with their statements or confirm they don’t want to. And again, either is fine.

I volunteer unpaid. It doesn’t make me unaccountable.

[PHILINFRANCE]

14 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And to be clear Phil, I totally respect that point of view (and again, if it was the majority I’d totally acquiesce to that).

This isn’t now about me or anyone else stamping our feet. This is simply about the forum being set up without consultation and then a trial period having occurred, and the results of that trial being clearly in favour of re-merging with only c20% in favour of retention when the mods confirmed if it didn’t work the forum would be re-merged

 I’m kind of of the mind it’s been discussed to death and the mods now need, to either re-merge or simply state they don’t want to.

Thanks for your fair and well presented response.

For what it is worth, even though I voted for the sub forum to remain, I am not too fussed one way or the other, although I suppose I lean towards the majority view prevailing.

We shall see what happens.

[Maesknoll Red]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

They are, and again, the job they do is appreciated. But that is whataboutery.
 

This is simply mods stating there would be a trial of a forum (after it was implemented with no consultation), that trial now having results confirming it’s not wanted, and then asking the mods to either remerge in line with their statements or confirm they don’t want to. And again, either is fine.

I volunteer unpaid. It doesn’t make me unaccountable.

The poll you put up has been responded to by less than 13% of the members who have visited the forum since you posted it, so less than 10% have voted to reinstate the posts to the main forum.  We are discussing it, we all work and have lives away from here and whether or not 145 members have voted in favour of your POV, it will take as long as it takes to get a decision.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The poll you put up has been responded to by less than 13% of the members who have visited the forum since you posted it, so less than 10% have voted to reinstate the posts to the main forum.  We are discussing it, we all work and have lives away from here and whether or not 145 members have voted in favour of your POV, it will take as long as it takes to get a decision.

Thank you. So you also acknowledge that less than 3% have asked to keep it. And it still hasn’t been established what percentage of the forum asked for it to start with so we’re back to whataboutery (I assume less than 10%)

With respect, I also volunteer for free and have a life as well - but if I went back to the organisation I volunteer for and said it takes as long as it takes when asked for a decision then I’d consider that unacceptable. If you want to keep it for personal preference you’re the mods and that’s fine - just say so and don’t kick the can

Finally, It’s not about my POV. As I’ve said numerous times, it’s about the majority view and you confirmed that the forum should be remerged if it didn’t work. This again smacks of avoiding the question and I believe you’re better than that.

[lenred]

22 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The poll you put up has been responded to by less than 13% of the members who have visited the forum since you posted it, so less than 10% have voted to reinstate the posts to the main forum.  We are discussing it, we all work and have lives away from here and whether or not 145 members have voted in favour of your POV, it will take as long as it takes to get a decision.

Wow. And how many ‘voted’ to have the sub forum in the first place?

Edited January 3 by lenred

[James54De]

20 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The poll you put up has been responded to by less than 13% of the members who have visited the forum since you posted it, so less than 10% have voted to reinstate the posts to the main forum.  We are discussing it, we all work and have lives away from here and whether or not 145 members have voted in favour of your POV, it will take as long as it takes to get a decision.

Ummm. That’s never how it’s been done, in any type of vote. Especially after it was done on a whim by the admin group. 

[CS Red]

23 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

They are, and again, the job they do is appreciated. But that is whataboutery.
 

This is simply mods stating there would be a trial of a forum (after it was implemented with no consultation), that trial now having results confirming it’s not wanted, and then asking the mods to either remerge in line with their statements or confirm they don’t want to. And again, either is fine.

I volunteer unpaid. It doesn’t make me unaccountable.

Thanks for confirming that.

 

In that case I would like to say thanks to the mods for giving up your spare time and a excellent job they do.

If this thread was on other forums I use it would of been deleted and the original poster told to private message the mods.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, CS Red said:

Thanks for confirming that.

 

In that case I would like to say thanks to the mods for giving up your spare time and a excellent job they do.

If this thread was on other forums I use it would have been deleted and the original poster told to private message the mods.

 I think you’re missing the point, potentially willingly.

The forum appears to have been set up because some (unknown as the mods won’t say how many so I assume single figure) users asked for it. All anyone is trying to do here is gauge of the people that care about the issue how many people want the forum to stay or go. Nothing to do with the mods being volunteers. Everything to do with a non transparent decision, and your last point is exactly why it came about as opposed to the gotcha you think it is.

[Down Town]

I have been reading these posts with interest recently. It really is toys being thrown out of the pram by a very small number of people. 

Silvio asked for an explanation, two of the admin have responded but still keeps going on about it. Grow up, respect the decision and worry about something important.

I do agree with CS Red, this should be binned off now, a couple of people are looking very silly with their constant self important whinging. 

Please do us all a favour and delete or lock this now

[Colemanballs]

On 03/01/2024 at 00:51, phantom said:

 

This thread was moved bec it was asked to be pinned so stayed at the top 

We then got comments from people saying they missed it as it was pinned among many others 

It was then suggested to move to the transfer forum. 

 

This has got somewhat lost amongst the rest of the debate about the ex players forum, but from the number of likes my request has received, I am not alone. Respectfully, I would say that the suggestion to move the loan thread was not a good one unless the intention was to kill it off. Please can it be moved back to the main forum. Thank you.

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 hours ago, Down Town said:

I have been reading these posts with interest recently. It really is toys being thrown out of the pram by a very small number of people. 

Silvio asked for an explanation, two of the admin have responded but still keeps going on about it. Grow up, respect the decision and worry about something important.

I do agree with CS Red, this should be binned off now, a couple of people are looking very silly with their constant self important whinging. 

Please do us all a favour and delete or lock this now

As someone who requested a change back some time ago - and btw. quickly received enough 'likes' to make it a 'popular' post - I agree with Silvio.

It might not be important in the wider scheme of things but it's evidently important to many of us in terms of our enjoyment of the forum and I hope, after their deliberations, the mods decide to go with the majority view and reinstate things as they were.

The 'very small number of people throwing their toys out of the pram' are not Silvio and the likes of me who want a return to how things were, and imo worked so well, but those very few who demanded change where none was needed in the first place and were quickly responded to.

It's really nothing to do with 'whinging' or a need to 'grow up', and you are under no obligation to read this thread if it evokes such emotion in you that you feel the need to be rude to a fellow poster.