FBC POD - Watford [H] the verdict ...... it was OK, no more than that

[headhunter]

Ian, Mark, Neil & DaveP debate a game which was a case of  "after the Lord Mayor's show" in comparison with the sparkling FA Cup win over West Ham.

There was to be no repeat of the 4-1 hammering of the Hornets on Boxing Day. They were a lot more enterprising than some sides seen at home this season but for all their neat play MOL in goal was rarely threatened.

Nice for Twine to score on his debut but we still have a problem at that end of the pitch

Ian, Mark, Neil & DaveP debate a game which was a case of  "after the Lord Mayor's show" in comparison with the sparkling FA Cup win over West Ham.

There was to be no repeat of the 4-1 hammering of the Hornets on Boxing Day. They were a lot more enterprising than some sides seen at home this season but for all their neat play MOL in goal was rarely threatened.

Nice for Twine to score on his debut but we still have a problem at that end of the pitch

 

Edited January 22 by headhunter
Insert video link

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Just at the part where it was suggested we drop Knight and throw McCrorie into a midfield 3 for the Forest game. 

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Just at the part where it was suggested we drop Knight and throw McCrorie into a midfield 3 for the Forest game. 

just listened to it and enjoyed it.

Agreed with nearly all Ian said - except for the McCrorie bit above.

Congrats re Talk Sport.

[NcnsBcfc]

@headhunter

Bit harsh on taking that question "Are we better off without Conway" out of context ....

Makes me look like a complete muppet...

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@headhunter

Bit harsh on taking that question "Are we better off without Conway" out of context ....

Makes me look like a complete muppet...

Talking of muppets, with you and Dave on screen together, it’s very “Waldorf and Stadtler”!

[Markthehorn]

I think lot of our fans thought we had the better of the 1st half but you certainly controlled the second and looked much more likely to score a winner.

Both goals came from defensive errors I guess and each keeper made decent saves.

 

 

[maxjak]

Just to let you know, despite what was stated on your podcast, and an Easy mistake to make?     Watford's Asprilla is NOT in anyway related to Faustino Asprilla, the former Newcastle forward............apparently Asprilla is quite a common Surname in Colombia?

[Numero Uno]

12 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

I think lot of our fans thought we had the better of the 1st half but you certainly controlled the second and looked much more likely to score a winner.

Both goals came from defensive errors I guess and each keeper made decent saves.

 

 

I did like Ben Hamer's "slightly late" dive for our goal though.......by the time he landed you were kicking off.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Did I hear Ian right? Did he say he thinks we'd only get quarter of a million compensation for Tommy if he was out of contract? I've heard some shit come out of his mouth but this is really up there.

[Pip King]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Did I hear Ian right? Did he say he thinks we'd only get quarter of a million compensation for Tommy if he was out of contract? I've heard some shit come out of his mouth but this is really up there.

Sometimes I think he says things just to be contrarian 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Talking of muppets, with you and Dave on screen together, it’s very “Waldorf and Stadtler”!

Don't know whether he's got new glasses or he's a bit more cheerful these days but @headhunter seems to look increasingly like Sergeant Bilko.

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Did I hear Ian right? Did he say he thinks we'd only get quarter of a million compensation for Tommy if he was out of contract? I've heard some shit come out of his mouth but this is really up there.

If he's out of contract and refuses to sign a new one isn't it done on a formula? That formula is not as high as you might think even for a lad who has been with the Academy from Under 9's (when it officially begins).

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If he's out of contract and refuses to sign a new one isn't it done on a formula? That formula is not as high as you might think even for a lad who has been with the Academy from Under 9's (when it officially begins).

Let’s just assume he went to Rangers or Celtic, then we’d get something like €400k as an OOC player. (FIFA compo scheme)

But the reality is if in the summer of 2025 Tommy is OOC, there will be English clubs after him and that falls under the English PFCC compo scheme and the likelihood is that if he is still scoring at the rate he is, we would get millions.

Danny Ings is the highest compo under PFCC…£6.5m fee, £1.5m in add-ons and 20% sell-on, when he went from Burnley to Liverpool.

Not many end up going to “tribunal” these days, clubs usually come to some compromise,

[W-S-M Seagull]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s just assume he went to Rangers or Celtic, then we’d get something like €400k as an OOC player. (FIFA compo scheme)

But the reality is if in the summer of 2025 Tommy is OOC, there will be English clubs after him and that falls under the English PFCC compo scheme and the likelihood is that if he is still scoring at the rate he is, we would get millions.

Danny Ings is the highest compo under PFCC…£6.5m fee, £1.5m in add-ons and 20% sell-on, when he went from Burnley to Liverpool.

Not many end up going to “tribunal” these days, clubs usually come to some compromise,

So Ians 250k is complete utter bullshit just like I suspected when I heard him say it? 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So Ians 250k is complete utter bullshit just like I suspected when I heard him say it? 

Do you know when he said that on the pod, I’d like to listen to the context.

[Curr Avon]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you know when he said that on the pod, I’d like to listen to the context.

25:25

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

25:25

Thanks, Ian incorrect.

Agree with rationale re contract, but that’s a fans view based more on hope than likelihood.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

25:25

Well. It’s possible we keep Tommy then. As long as man is still alive, and as long as woman can survive.

[Kid in the Riot]

Good episode. Flows so much better when everyone takes their turn speaking and doesn't interrupt. 

[Davefevs]

Surprised at the low evaluation (and valuation) of Tommy.

He's scoring at a goal every other game(ish) in a mid-table team, who also happen to be a low scoring team.  Odds not stacked in his favour, plus playing a system that isn’t a perfect fit.

Other team’s recruitment departments will be looking beyond some of those (perceived negative) factors.

I recall a certain LM saying pre-Southampton, that Tommy scores from crosses, pull-backs, etc, and he (LM) needs to find a way to get us in behind teams to service Tommy.  Not seen any evidence of that bar Huddersfield (a) when Sykes and Knight carved their left-back up.

So I think he’s doing a pretty decent job.

[NcnsBcfc]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Surprised at the low evaluation (and valuation) of Tommy.

He's scoring at a goal every other game(ish) in a mid-table team, who also happen to be a low scoring team.  Odds not stacked in his favour, plus playing a system that isn’t a perfect fit.

Other team’s recruitment departments will be looking beyond some of those (perceived negative) factors.

I recall a certain LM saying pre-Southampton, that Tommy scores from crosses, pull-backs, etc, and he (LM) needs to find a way to get us in behind teams to service Tommy.  Not seen any evidence of that bar Huddersfield (a) when Sykes and Knight carved their left-back up.

So I think he’s doing a pretty decent job.

I like Conway @Davefevs but the point I make on the podcast is that he's scored 6 goals this season in the league, 3 of them pens.

The 2 at Rotherham and 1 at Huddersfield are his only outfield goals and we need more from him in the position he is playing at the moment.

I get part of that is the service he is getting and no doubt Manning will be looking to address this over the summer with some hopefully bold decisions over the squad and recruitment.

I listed at the end of the podcast other strikers in the Championship that arguably would fall into the same category as Conway. This is the list of top scorers in the division ( Conway joint 34th !)

 

 

Edited January 22 by NcnsBcfc

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I like Conway @Davefevs but the point I make on the podcast is that he's scored 6 goals this season in the league, 3 of them pens.

The 2 at Rotherham and 1 at Huddersfield are his only outfield goals and we need more from him in the position he is playing at the moment.

I get part of that is the service he is getting and no doubt Manning will be looking to address this over the summer with some hopefully bold decisions over the squad and recruitment.

I listed at the end of the podcast other strikers in the Championship that arguably would fall into the same category as Conway. This is the list of top scorers in the division ( Conway joint 34th !)

 

 

Apologies for mucking up the order, but you get my drift. 

A large number of young players there having far better seasons and looking real prospects for the future.

From that list do we really think Conway stands out? He's not a differential forward like Semenyo.

He won't sign the two contracts offered to him (source Tinnion at Senior reds).

Sentimentality over our academy products is of course a good thing, but I really can't see him commanding anything more than £5-6m in the summer in my honest opinion.

[Davefevs]

@NcnsBcfc do you think this summer LM will be looking to improve service for Conway?  Or service for some other new striker(s).  I don’t see him moving away from playing one do you?

Theres no sentimentality, I just happen to think he’s a cracking striker, who clubs will see for more than a simple rank of top scorers.

Edited January 22 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

Are we accounting for injuries with Conway?

Not listened yet but have to factor in our for 2 months IMO and then the fact that for us penalties are feast v famine.

Are we weighting penalty goals v non penalty goals for all.

[marcofisher]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are we accounting for injuries with Conway?

Not listened yet but have to factor in our for 2 months IMO and then the fact that for us penalties are feast v famine.

Are we weighting penalty goals v non penalty goals for all.

Just what I was about to write, you need to factor in that he was not fit for a large part of the season, and has been playing in a team which does not create a lot of chances. If we take cup matches into account (against Prem opposition), he is just over 1 in 3.

 

[NcnsBcfc]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@NcnsBcfc do you think this summer LM will be looking to improve service for Conway?  Or service for some other new striker(s).  I don’t see him moving away from playing one do you?

Evening @Davefevs

No I don't see him moving from playing a lone striker.

The thing that struck me on Saturday was that we only made 3 subs, because in all honesty, there was no sub that could improve us whilst still keeping the same formation (never going to risk it at 1-1).

Something has to change though, strip out the Hull, Boro and Watford(a) games and that's 21 goals in 25 league games. Quite frankly that's appalling and I've very thankful that our defence has been as good as it has (in general) this season.

The changes Manning made at Oxford last Summer were radical, with a large turnover of players. Maybe he's planning something similar for us. I can't see any of the OOC players staying and surely others like Naismith, Cornick, Wells or even possibly Mehmeti will either be replaced or shipped out on loan.

Max is an adequate keeper, but his distribution either has to improve for us to progress, or likewise we need someone better.

We are a solid championship team (based on our defence of course). But in the last 3-4 seasons our lack of goals have stopped us from getting into those precious playoff spots.

Standing still isn't an option. We are still losing money hand over fist and need to sell players once again just to stay within FFP.

We can't just keep treading water in this division. We obviously haven't got massive scope to spend, but we have to change the dynamic of the team somehow.

In essence, can I see Conway firing the goals to get us into the playoffs. No I can't unfortunately.

Edited January 22 by NcnsBcfc

[Mr Popodopolous]

We don't need to sell players to keep in line with FFP IMO but that's another debate.

Obvious caveat being how much we spend, how much we throw at it etc.

Plus short, medium and long term considerations.

Edited January 22 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

25 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Apologies for mucking up the order, but you get my drift. 

A large number of young players there having far better seasons and looking real prospects for the future.

From that list do we really think Conway stands out? He's not a differential forward like Semenyo.

He won't sign the two contracts offered to him (source Tinnion at Senior reds).

Sentimentality over our academy products is of course a good thing, but I really can't see him commanding anything more than £5-6m in the summer in my honest opinion.

Depends how he finishes the season I think. If he also goes to the Euros and does well there then that can only increase his price. 

I feel a bit sorry for Tommy. It's not his fault he's having to play up top on his own and that he lacks any kind of decent service. 

I don't think anyone else would do much better than him with the scraps he gets fed. 

Worth mentioning that it was his shot (which he should have scored really) that led to our goal on Saturday. 

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We don't need to sell players to keep in line with FFP IMO but that's another debate.

Obvious caveat being how much we spend, how much we throw at it etc.

Plus short, medium and long term considerations.

Whilst it's great that the sale of Scott has afforded us some scope. We still don't have a huge amount to spend on players and of course our wage budgets are lower than a few years ago out of necessity.

For me the signing of Twine demonstrates short term mentality up until the summer.

There's no doubt in my mind that we would be paying £5m for him (or thereabouts). We need short term creativity in the team, but I was worried after Saturday that we are trying to make him the focal point of our attacks.

It was almost like watching an U12 team, with the coach shouting out "get it to Scott", as if he was the best player on the pitch. I'm sure in my mind that Twine won't be here next season, so how that takes us forward as a club in the medium term is a mystery.

All for having a player in that makes other players better around him, but we are literally letting him do everything in the team at the moment (quite rightly on the set pieces as he was superb).

Unlike Pearson's evolution, maybe we are on the cusp of Manning's " Summer Revolution" and not willing to either over pay in this Jan window, or get players in that are either your 3rd or 4th choice for the sake of it.

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Depends how he finishes the season I think. If he also goes to the Euros and does well there then that can only increase his price. 

I feel a bit sorry for Tommy. It's not his fault he's having to play up top on his own and that he lacks any kind of decent service. 

I don't think anyone else would do much better than him with the scraps he gets fed. 

Worth mentioning that it was his shot (which he should have scored really) that led to our goal on Saturday. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Tommy and he is starting to get better and better at nicking the ball off the last man.

But as it stands he won't sign the contract offers and unless there is major movement on one side or another or even both, he won't be here next season.

We're not going to make the same mistake again that we made with Fammy. If a player has a worth and won't sign, he needs to go.