W-S-M Seagull Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Super said: I just laugh at your absolute bollox. Once you stop grieving over Pearson you'll see things differently. How am I supposed to see this any differently Super? No win Win No win No win No win No win Win Win Win No win No win No win No win No win No win Win Win No win Why are you mentioning Pearson AGAIN? I think you have a strange obsession with the guy mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveInSA Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 I’m negative, because we should absolutely and completely be beating QPR. And we should absolutely and completely beaten Norwich at home (the last game I saw in person). There are countless other games we should have done better in, and of course the reverse is also true (we’ve won a couple we should have lost). I want to see a level of arrogance and confidence that we can beat any team in this league. We’ve shown we can do it. But we’re so inconsistent it isn’t even funny. The players need to find a way to win more games. I want to see attacking football with a bit of grit and guile in it. I want to see a bit of commitment and passion and big tackles. I want to be entertained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: How am I supposed to see this any differently Super? No win Win No win No win No win No win Win Win Win No win No win No win No win No win No win Win Win No win Why are you mentioning Pearson AGAIN? I think you have a strange obsession with the guy mate. Well for one you think he was doing a fine job yet Manning is doing a shite one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 16 minutes ago, Davefevs said: We really aren’t creating more decent opportunities. We are creating slightly less chances , and slightly worse chances - a double whammy. ? We're going at 4 shots on target per game v 3 under Pearson this season. Raw shots is 0.5 per game higher as well. Raw shots is marginal but shots on target up by 33% is g negligible. Total xG for is ever so slightly more in Pearson's games but it's a difference of 0.02 average per game so not really anything. Manning's I guess includes two penalties whereas Pearson never got penalties so take from that what you will. Average xG per shot under both of them is basically 0.099 per shot. It's nothing to get too excited about but it's also not, in my opinion, something to level against the current set up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, Super said: Well for one you think he was doing a fine job yet Manning is doing a shite one. He was doing a fine job considering squad availability ( check the team and squad available v Cardiff and many previous games). With the squad now available and the players that have returned to fitness I would have expected us to be in a much better position than we are now. Thanks for not replying to my post re: lyers. Shame you are quite happy to roll over and have your tummy tickled and happily put up with it. I won't... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Better Red said: Pring and Vyner are better. Max Bird will also likely start. Good spot. I also forgot about Vyner out Atkinson in. If all fit and in form it can be a nice problem to have however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, Galley is our king said: He was doing a fine job considering squad availability ( check the team and squad available v Cardiff and many previous games). With the squad now available and the players that have returned to fitness I would have expected us to be in a much better position than we are now. Thanks for not replying to my post re: lyers. Shame you are quite happy to roll over and have your tummy tickled and happily put up with it. I won't... No idea what post you are on about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollsRoyce Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 53 minutes ago, Super said: I just laugh at your absolute bollox. Once you stop grieving over Pearson you'll see things differently. It’s not bollox though . Pearson has gone but you seem as obsessed with him as you claim WSM is . im struggling to understand what it is you think we should be seeing differently , as many are looking to the future now but you keep looking to the past . 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollsRoyce Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 47 minutes ago, Super said: Well for one you think he was doing a fine job yet Manning is doing a shite one. Manning is very average. That has nothing to do with Pearson. You are obsessed with Nige . Nige has gone , finished . Manning is now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 hours ago, FNQ said: At half time versus QPR, surely a most exciting managerial appointment should have been able to affect the game more? We weren’t playing Real Madrid. At half time the rest of our entire season was on the line, not that in any way you would have thought so. And I’m not sure that next year will be any more interesting than this one, Burnley, Luton and Sheffield Utd will occupy the top three positions and progressive teams like Hull, Coventry and Sunderland will be in with a shout making up the top 6, we’ll continue to reduce our losses by selling Tommy and JL and BT will still be here spouting the same crap planning for the following season… This is the recurring concern about Manning. He might be a good coach on the training pitch but that doesn’t mean he is necessarily any good at dealing with tactics and substitutions during a game. He’s a novice at this level but he’s not completely inexperienced. Admittedly he didn’t plan for Bell to pull his hamstring midway through the first half, but that still doesn’t explain the lack of impetus in the second half and then making those 3 substitutions just while we were applying some pressure on QPR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 9 hours ago, Sheltons Army said: For me , I don’t think we can afford to assemble a ready made squad to play that way So , to think of a run at promotion by any means , Manning either needs to prove to be an exceptional ,or at least excellent coach in drilling 11 v 11 on training ground , significantly improving / developing players we can afford , and be very good tactically in game Or We we find a more pragmatic way to win games , probably more Luton than Burnley (I cant see Manning ever considering this) I haven’t looked at any stats and only watched them casually , and Fevs will correct me if I’m wrong , but I don’t see them as possession based at all Id certainly describe their football as front foot , which we certainly are not , for all the spout by Tinnion Ipswich have more possession than opponents generally, but its not high. The teams approach differs through the thirds starkly. Their keeper is very good on the ball, they use a double pivot in a 4 - 2 -3 -1 and build up play in the first third that guarantees possession. This intent alters in the second and last third - They become aggressive looking to play up back and through quickly, quick combinations attempting to penetrate, and play a lot of bounce passes bringing opponents onto them and hitting spaces in behind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said: It’s not bollox though . Pearson has gone but you seem as obsessed with him as you claim WSM is . im struggling to understand what it is you think we should be seeing differently , as many are looking to the future now but you keep looking to the past . The point is Manning is bring treated very differently to Pearson. Edited February 22 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 43 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: ? We're going at 4 shots on target per game v 3 under Pearson this season. Raw shots is 0.5 per game higher as well. Raw shots is marginal but shots on target up by 33% is g negligible. Total xG for is ever so slightly more in Pearson's games but it's a difference of 0.02 average per game so not really anything. Manning's I guess includes two penalties whereas Pearson never got penalties so take from that what you will. Average xG per shot under both of them is basically 0.099 per shot. It's nothing to get too excited about but it's also not, in my opinion, something to level against the current set up. You’ll know that my team data I take from Opta which is Non-Pen Shots / Goals….both attack and defence. For some reason I can’t attach my stats summary (some will be relieved)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Ipswich have more possession than opponents generally, but its not high. The teams approach differs through the thirds starkly. Their keeper is very good on the ball, they use a double pivot in a 4 - 2 -3 -1 and build up play in the first third that guarantees possession. This intent alters in the second and last third - They become aggressive looking to play up back and through quickly, quick combinations attempting to penetrate, and play a lot of bounce passes bringing opponents onto them and hitting spaces in behind. Those “bounce passes” are where they really break forward from settled possession to what almost appears to be a counterattack - but not from a regain. The number of times they play into Chaplin in the middle third, and then he either: rolls his man and then goes quickly wide to Davis (or Burns or Clarke) usually because Broadhead has sucked a player infield is so evident, or he lays off and someone else makes the pass instead, but it’s done quickly. Although you say “guarantees possession” I think they are incredibly brave (trust the process) too. I’m still surprised teams get sucked in, their patterns are so repeatable, albeit superbly executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollsRoyce Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Super said: The point is Manning is bring treated very differently to Pearson. By whom ? I loved Nige , would never have sacked him . But I’m looking at Manning and I am deeply concerned . Zero to do with Nige. I am looking at Manning and there is more that worries me that convinces me . Why is Manning being treated different ? He has not got a squad of wasters , has no need to reduce the wage bill by a third , or create a £30 M transfer profit . Lucky for him . He has a different scenario and is judged against that . He has a very different challenge . I cannot see his role remotely comparable to Pearson. I have no idea why you keep talking about Pearson . Manning is Manning . Nige is gone . Manning has run this team for more games this season . I am looking at his impact on the squad . I’m not convinced . I wa t to see much better for the last games . 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said: By whom ? I loved Nige , would never have sacked him . But I’m looking at Manning and I am deeply concerned . Zero to do with Nige. I am looking at Manning and there is more that worries me that convinces me . Why is Manning being treated different ? He has not got a squad of wasters , has no need to reduce the wage bill by a third , or create a £30 M transfer profit . Lucky for him . He has a different scenario and is judged against that . He has a very different challenge . I cannot see his role remotely comparable to Pearson. I have no idea why you keep talking about Pearson . Manning is Manning . Nige is gone . Manning has run this team for more games this season . I am looking at his impact on the squad . I’m not convinced . I wa t to see much better for the last games . Squad of wasters is a tad harsh, I think many individually and collectively had run their course, injuries were huge, morale was on the floor. Albeit there were definitely some and it was an almighty task to keep us afloat, steadily improve our baseline and along with Gould steer us clear of FFP sanctions under huge Regulatory constraints (Regulatory constraints I'm not wholly convinced other clubs approaching the 3 year line to this season are under to the same degree). The task now is to build, build on a solid base with a good culture but perhaps a lack of flair or high Championship quality in some areas. Edited February 22 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 16 minutes ago, Super said: The point is Manning is bring treated very differently to Pearson. If Pearsons results had been the same as Mannings have since October I can assure you that you would not see anyone on here giving as much love to him as you're to Manning. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Those “bounce passes” are where they really break forward from settled possession to what almost appears to be a counterattack - but not from a regain. The number of times they play into Chaplin in the middle third, and then he either: rolls his man and then goes quickly wide to Davis (or Burns or Clarke) usually because Broadhead has sucked a player infield is so evident, or he lays off and someone else makes the pass instead, but it’s done quickly. Although you say “guarantees possession” I think they are incredibly brave (trust the process) too. I’m still surprised teams get sucked in, their patterns are so repeatable, albeit superbly executed. Having a footballing goal keeper gives Ipswich a consistent overload at the back, and he can with ease take part in the patterns of play, he also can pop balls efficiently over the top into team mates. When you have that behind the lines providing balance it makes teams bolder. They can ping it about, and put their foot on it, and their CBs can drive to release. he lays off and someone else makes the pass instead, but it’s done quickly - Up back and through. It appears relentless. If they don't go up, second season may see teams letting them have it. 4-2-4-1 they have quite frequently five players behind the ball, let them have it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Sorry Super but I do not for one minute believe you went into this season expecting us to be mid table and to equal last years total. The vast majority were expecting progression. Once again I think you're moving the goal posts to down play down the shite job Manning has done. Because we have a lot of teams below us to play and Saturday proved Manning does not have a clue how to beat those sides. JL clearly expected progression despite all the kids we giving debuts to. We had a bench packed full of quality “on paper” last Saturday and we were utter shite. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 9 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Having a footballing goal keeper gives Ipswich a consistent overload at the back, and he can with ease take part in the patterns of play, he also can pop balls efficiently over the top into team mates. When you have that behind the lines providing balance it makes teams bolder. They can ping it about, and put their foot on it, and their CBs can drive to release. he lays off and someone else makes the pass instead, but it’s done quickly - Up back and through. It appears relentless. If they don't go up, second season may see teams letting them have it. 4-2-4-1 they have quite frequently five players behind the ball, let them have it. It’s probably the tactic a lot of Lg1 teams used, get behind the ball, but Ipswich’s quality told in a lot of games last season, but they did have a wobble for a spell. Their results against the top 6 were excellent though, think they only lost 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: Of course, let’s ignore the fact that when we’ve won games we’ve done it with less possession which makes points 2 and 3 frankly bizarre Edit - I think Fevs may also have analysis that shows Liams producing less xG! Did you actually read what I wrote? “I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times.” Just because you automatically think Sky Sports possession percentages, when you hear the word possession, I get why you think that would sound “bizarre”, so let me help you out. Just because you’re more thoughtful in possession doesn’t mean you have more of it, you’re looking at it really simplistically. You don’t have to have a higher percentage than your opposition to be more effective whilst you have it. Fun fact, depending on what’s happening within the game, I’ll keep it easy, sometimes you’re okay with the opponents having the ball believe it or not. So when people talk about possession, there is so much more to it than simple “we’ve got the ball” longer than you. The fact you think that is bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: ? We're going at 4 shots on target per game v 3 under Pearson this season. Raw shots is 0.5 per game higher as well. Raw shots is marginal but shots on target up by 33% is g negligible. Total xG for is ever so slightly more in Pearson's games but it's a difference of 0.02 average per game so not really anything. Manning's I guess includes two penalties whereas Pearson never got penalties so take from that what you will. Average xG per shot under both of them is basically 0.099 per shot. It's nothing to get too excited about but it's also not, in my opinion, something to level against the current set up. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Cowshed said: . 4-2-4-1 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: It’s probably the tactic a lot of Lg1 teams used, get behind the ball, but Ipswich’s quality told in a lot of games last season, but they did have a wobble for a spell. Their results against the top 6 were excellent though, think they only lost 1. Looking at my typo that's one way of getting at teams getting behind the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Just now, Cowshed said: Looking at my typo that's one way of getting at teams getting behind the ball. I did wonder whether you were playing the goalie up top, or modern methods now quoted the keeper in formations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 37 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: Did you actually read what I wrote? “I think we are more composed and thoughtful in possession. I love how Manning is encouraging the team to retain the ball and build up play patiently. This contrasts with more direct approaches seen in the past which sometimes was a bit hit and hope at times.” Just because you automatically think Sky Sports possession percentages, when you hear the word possession, I get why you think that would sound “bizarre”, so let me help you out. Just because you’re more thoughtful in possession doesn’t mean you have more of it, you’re looking at it really simplistically. You don’t have to have a higher percentage than your opposition to be more effective whilst you have it. Fun fact, depending on what’s happening within the game, I’ll keep it easy, sometimes you’re okay with the opponents having the ball believe it or not. So when people talk about possession, there is so much more to it than simple “we’ve got the ball” longer than you. The fact you think that is bizarre. Tim, have you considered that teams also allow us to have the ball? Knowing that we can't break teams down who sit in a low/med block? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNQ Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Super said: The point is Manning is bring treated very differently to Pearson. By JL certainly.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, FNQ said: By JL certainly.. And BT. In LM's press conference he was asked about the recent sackings in the Championship. He said that BT came down and spoke to him about them. All very matey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Its hard to be optimistic when we going down the table and our football is tothless. No speed, creative, pace, seldom wins and so on. Teams know how to play against us, they sit back and dont have to fight for there lifes for 3 points. This is a buisness of result, our way of playing football dont get it. Many games are so boring, ball betwen our players, playing back and then same thing again. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 8 hours ago, Davefevs said: You’ll know that my team data I take from Opta which is Non-Pen Shots / Goals….both attack and defence. For some reason I can’t attach my stats summary (some will be relieved)! Yep. Also, we don't create enough. That is true. We didn't create enough at the start of the season either. It is something that needs fixing if we're going to be a serious top 6 perspect. Shots for should be around 14 or 15, not 11 like it is now. Shots on target needs another increase to 5 rather than 4. That's what you see the big boys put down, and somehow - and I don't know enough abouts tactics and shapes and passing etc to say how - we need to match that. We're not doing it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Tim, have you considered that teams also allow us to have the ball? Knowing that we can't break teams down who sit in a low/med block? Yes, Dave. Edited February 23 by Tim Monaghan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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