Tins on RB

[TV Tom]

13 hours ago, Countryfile said:

In 1976 I walked up the steps into Highbury with my Dad and his words are still ringing in my ears, he said “I never thought I’d live to see this day” he was 51 and had supported man and boy since he could stand up and had long dreamed of seeing his team in the first division (as was).

Fast forward to 2023, I am considerably older than my father was in 76, and I don’t dream of seeing us in the Prem, it simply won’t happen in my remaining lifetime, and call me pessimistic but while the people who currently run the club continue to do so, it will never happen.

If as a City fan anyone believes we will get to the promised land under the present regime then good luck to you, I genuinely think you have more chance of winning the lottery first prize than achieving promotion.

I won’t try and justify my statement, I’ll just refer you to the definition of insanity by dear old uncle Albert.

My dear old dad was in his mid 50's as well, i remember the pride he felt seeing "his team" finally in the top flight and telling me how lucky i was only having to wait till i was a teenager to see it, i  used to love the stories he used to tell me about how his dad used to watch Bristol South End on St. Johns Lane, i've got to believe that my kids don't have to wait till they are in their mid 50s  

What were Luton fans thinking 8 years ago while they were mid-table mediocrity in the conference ? I think it's better to stay positive and hopeful otherwise what's the point ?

[Floatn Over]

10 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

The future we all wish for will never come with present owners and arguably not whilst we are under the ludicrous BS umbrella.

 

i am now reconciled to never again in my lifetime, aged 78, seeing City play in top flight.  Much more likely see them play in equivalent of old division 3 South

I share your thoughts entirely, just seeing us and those shirts (shame we don’t have kit like that now) in the top flight was so special, a struggle for much of the time yes but still etched in my memory.

I still cling to the slight hope it will happen but it needs a passionate management team (CEO, D of F, Ambassador, call them what you like) with that and BCFC as a belief and vision.  This is not a knock at LM, the coaching side is a separate issue.

The problem is, certain persons would need to hand over some controls and drive, so I’m not holding my breath on that.

[The Bard]

33 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Its also flipping obvious that most of those were short term options and they would be gone at the end of this season regardless of who is manager. Grooming King as a coach was a bit sentimental on NPs part imo.

Players can be young and have played 200+ times at a commensurate level, they are experienced players in their own right.

Quite obvious that King (moving home to Leicester according to his Mrs.), Weimann (home to Solihull), and unfortunately James, will be gone at the end of the season. Tinnion bigged up Williams so he maybe stays if the contract is right for him.

New era.

Again.

 

the suggestion is we are going to be signing promising players.  We are going to be a very young side if that's the case.  

Experience isn't just about number of appearances. It's also about maturity of the individual.  Most males prefrontal cortex doesn't properly mature until mid 20s.  Emotional regulation/personality etc.  You could see watching the way likes of King/James/Weimann and Wells interacted with Scott/Conway/Bell when they first came into the side that their development as people was just as important as their footballing ability.  Pearson knows that this is what distinguishes the ones that make it from the ones that don't and positive role models is absolutely key to that.

Scott and Conway in particular have developed really quickly I would say because of the nature of the environment created by Nigel Pearson which is now being hacked to pieces by Tinnion.  There were worrying signs on Friday - bickering amongst players. A couple of times I noticed some not exactly busting a gut to track runners etc.

 

 

 

 

[Silvio Dante]

28 minutes ago, The Bard said:

the suggestion is we are going to be signing promising players.  We are going to be a very young side if that's the case.  

Experience isn't just about number of appearances. It's also about maturity of the individual.  Most males prefrontal cortex doesn't properly mature until mid 20s.  Emotional regulation/personality etc.  You could see watching the way likes of King/James/Weimann and Wells interacted with Scott/Conway/Bell when they first came into the side that their development as people was just as important as their footballing ability.  Pearson knows that this is what distinguishes the ones that make it from the ones that don't and positive role models is absolutely key to that.

Scott and Conway in particular have developed really quickly I would say because of the nature of the environment created by Nigel Pearson which is now being hacked to pieces by Tinnion.  There were worrying signs on Friday - bickering amongst players. A couple of times I noticed some not exactly busting a gut to track runners etc.

 

 

 

 

If you’ve not listened to FBC this week yet I would - @TomSutton makes a similar point excellently 

[TomSutton]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes Araoye as deputy to Atkinson when Naismith is gone.

What to do with Knight-Lebel then - as 2 into 3 won't go if he's competing with Vyner and Dickie for RCB. Sell him like Towler? Or perhaps compete with McCrorie for RB to start with and Tanner becomes expendable. Carey and Vyner both started at RB before moving to RCB, maybe that's the plan for Knight-Lebel too.

I believe he said on Bristol Live that if possible it would be ideal to sort him out a league loan. It’s clear he’s a quality technician of a centre back as he’s been Canada u20 captain for over a year now but he needs mens experience. You can’t have a 21/22 year old with under 20-30 games played these days as you are made to recall on previous experiences and if you have none to fall back on especially at centre back it can be extremely difficult.

That being said unless your exceptional it can be difficult to break into an EFL club at centre back as unlike attackers where it is easier to sub on and off it is one of those positions which is built on an understanding of how each other work/play.

ie: one covers, one man marks, set pieces and communication with the holding mid or full backs. It is a massive ask for a teenager to do all of those while focusing on his own game in a new league with a new team especially within the EFL.

personally l am a massive fan of this Araoye loan as it provides that experience with communicating with older players and the level he’s at now is not a bad one for development and playing 90 minutes in a league men’s game the way I look at it could be worth playing 270 in a 21s game.

in summary really interested in where JKL goes (should be a loan but to where and what level) as I think we’ve all known about his talent for years but he’s got to start kicking on now.

Edited February 5 by TomSutton

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I reckon I might trademark that word when it comes to LM!

it’s one of the things that I can’t figure out about him. We have appointed what is, on paper a young and progressive coach bursting with ideas from a great education (West Ham, Man City). Every box would say he’d be the man to be innovative and break things. But he’s the polar opposite - he’s massively structured in all means - probably over structured - and has shown an inability to cope if things change outside of his plan.

Some of that you could put down to adapting to the new level, but if you seek out MK Dons comments from the EP when he was appointed “Didn’t seem to be able to turn it around when the plan wasn’t working” and Oxfords forum “Often poor second half after good first half” then it becomes more apparent it’s a character trait. And to be clear, that’s fine - he’s a planner, he’s organised - and if he has the best players or things click to that plan, it works.

My broad concern is that his particular character aspect has its flaws exposed at a higher level for two reasons - we won’t have the best players, and because the opposition managers are more likely to adapt themselves and throw his plan off.

I think I posted after the Soton game when we had the pattern of great first half then not “countering the counter” that it had the signs of a pattern. It definitely is now, and he needs to find a way to break it. But it might not be in his character.

Well said. For me it is absolutely clear from home league matches, the away side are careful in the first half not to concede. City have a reasonable share of the ball but very few opportunities for goalscoring.

Then in second half, opponents change the way they play, often it seems, getting a goal ahead and continuing to have major share of the ball. City are left to very few visits to the away sides goal and when we try to get late equaliser or even winner, the sucker punch winner is always at the end we're defending.

Manning is a coach and nothing else. Managers are coaches who can read a game and make the necessary changes to counter the other side.

Continue this much longer and we'll be scrapping with Blackburn Rovers for the third relegation place.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

My dear old dad was in his mid 50's as well, i remember the pride he felt seeing "his team" finally in the top flight and telling me how lucky i was only having to wait till i was a teenager to see it, i  used to love the stories he used to tell me about how his dad used to watch Bristol South End on St. Johns Lane, i've got to believe that my kids don't have to wait till they are in their mid 50s  

What were Luton fans thinking 8 years ago while they were mid-table mediocrity in the conference ? I think it's better to stay positive and hopeful otherwise what's the point ?

I’m always positive and always realistic.

I don’t know anything about Luton’s story, are there parallels? same owner, same mistakes, or a change or several changes of ownership along the way? Happy to hear from someone who knows the path they took, are there other clubs who haven’t cheated to get there (not saying Luton did, but there are I believe clubs who got promoted who would have been in big trouble had they not).

We’ve been really close once, didn’t back the manager fully then, and paid the price.

I just don’t see any real chance of promotion, the goalposts are moving further and further away, the parachute teams becoming more and more prevalent.

I go now out of habit and to be entertained, I wasn’t disappointed or deflated by the Leeds result, we were second best, everyone looked like they were trying and I thought Leeds were fantastic( a short break while I throw up having to say that).

The most vital change for me has to be in ownership and appointing people who have earned the right to be employed in the correct roles, there is far too much jobs for the boys inside Ashton Gate.

Perhaps our grandfathers stood next to each other at St John’s  Lane, mine claimed to have gone to the Cup Final (he would have been nine), I never really had a chance to question him as he passed away when I was still quite young and it wasn’t something that seemed to matter then, it does now.

[UREDS_91]

Manningball will never work with James and Williams in there, hence the pooling of CM talent to take over next year. We need mobile, box to box types that get us moving quickly. Not James who labours around the pitch and a slow Williams (who puts in a hard tackle every now and again and maybe pulls off a pass once in 10 attempts). Its crap that we're once again rebuilding but its required. I was a staunch advocate of Pearson and dont think he should have been sacked, but Manning is here, we can all see the way he "wants" to play. We just dont have the players to achieve it... Yet.  

[Clutton Caveman]

On 03/02/2024 at 11:47, NcnsBcfc said:

Completely @GrahamC

"So in the summer we're looking for a big strong, quick forward to play as a number 9" ie not Tommy

"But we would still love Tommy to sign a new contract"

"We need to improve our forward options". Read everyone is going from our current forwards (Conway, Cornick and dare I say it Wells?)

"There are funds available from Alex, Antoine deals and..." BT was gagging to say the money we'll get for Conway.

How on earth did we buy Cornick?

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

How on earth did we buy Cornick?

This perhaps helped.

A YouTube video doesn't tell the whole story but he was also in a fundamentally different setup to here.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Countryfile said:

I’m always positive and always realistic.

I don’t know anything about Luton’s story, are there parallels? same owner, same mistakes, or a change or several changes of ownership along the way? Happy to hear from someone who knows the path they took, are there other clubs who haven’t cheated to get there (not saying Luton did, but there are I believe clubs who got promoted who would have been in big trouble had they not).

We’ve been really close once, didn’t back the manager fully then, and paid the price.

I just don’t see any real chance of promotion, the goalposts are moving further and further away, the parachute teams becoming more and more prevalent.

I go now out of habit and to be entertained, I wasn’t disappointed or deflated by the Leeds result, we were second best, everyone looked like they were trying and I thought Leeds were fantastic( a short break while I throw up having to say that).

The most vital change for me has to be in ownership and appointing people who have earned the right to be employed in the correct roles, there is far too much jobs for the boys inside Ashton Gate.

Perhaps our grandfathers stood next to each other at St John’s  Lane, mine claimed to have gone to the Cup Final (he would have been nine), I never really had a chance to question him as he passed away when I was still quite young and it wasn’t something that seemed to matter then, it does now.

I actually have no idea if my granddad went to the cup final, i doubt it otherwise i'm sure it would of been mentioned, apparently Billy Wedlock was his hero and the best player in the country according to him !!!

If teams, like Burnley, Fulham, Brentford, Bradford, Luton, Hull Huddersfield, Blackpool etc. etc. etc can get there then so can we, i'm as frustrated as the next man that season after season we can't even finish above Preston but i still have hope and honestly believe we will get there and hopefully under this regime, i know i know, i'm a fool  

[Sheltons Army]

3 hours ago, TomSutton said:

I believe he said on Bristol Live that if possible it would be ideal to sort him out a league loan. It’s clear he’s a quality technician of a centre back as he’s been Canada u20 captain for over a year now but he needs mens experience. You can’t have a 21/22 year old with under 20-30 games played these days as you are made to recall on previous experiences and if you have none to fall back on especially at centre back it can be extremely difficult.

 

If this is Knight-Lebel , Tom (I may be off kilt here !) 

Thats a bit strange as - 

Tinnion said on Friday that he will get game time , he commented on how many times he’s been on the bench and said ‘he will be a first team player’ (or words to that effect)

I don’t see him going anywhere and based on Tinnions comments expect to see him have first team minutes at least ,  before the end of the season 

[supercidered]

4 hours ago, The Bard said:

the suggestion is we are going to be signing promising players.  We are going to be a very young side if that's the case.  

Experience isn't just about number of appearances. It's also about maturity of the individual.  Most males prefrontal cortex doesn't properly mature until mid 20s.  Emotional regulation/personality etc.  You could see watching the way likes of King/James/Weimann and Wells interacted with Scott/Conway/Bell when they first came into the side that their development as people was just as important as their footballing ability.  Pearson knows that this is what distinguishes the ones that make it from the ones that don't and positive role models is absolutely key to that.

Scott and Conway in particular have developed really quickly I would say because of the nature of the environment created by Nigel Pearson which is now being hacked to pieces by Tinnion.  There were worrying signs on Friday - bickering amongst players. A couple of times I noticed some not exactly busting a gut to track runners etc.

 

 

 

 

I didn't see that but that was probably because I had my head in my hands for most of the game!

If there is bickering starting and elements of not making the required effort then that is a big worry. For all NP's faults and there were some terrible matches in his reign, I never saw a lack of effort from his players or any bickering at any point. 

[TomSutton]

31 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

If this is Knight-Lebel , Tom (I may be off kilt here !) 

Thats a bit strange as - 

Tinnion said on Friday that he will get game time , he commented on how many times he’s been on the bench and said ‘he will be a first team player’ (or words to that effect)

I don’t see him going anywhere and based on Tinnions comments expect to see him have first team minutes at least ,  before the end of the season 

Ah plans may have changed I was referring to an interview LM gave a month and a bit ago. Was not aware Tins had spoke about him in regards to first team minutes my apologies 

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, TomSutton said:

Ah plans may have changed I was referring to an interview LM gave a month and a bit ago. Was not aware Tins had spoke about him in regards to first team minutes my apologies 

Ahh

Interesting and I have to say that’s still strange 

Our HC LM talking , albeit a month + or so back about suitability for a loan and our DoF recently talking about minutes and integration into the first team

Either JKL has since really impressed LM for talk proper first team integration , which is possible , or .... they aren’t quite on the same page ....which would be strange , and a niggling concern

[Silvio Dante]

12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ahh

Interesting and I have to say that’s still strange 

Our HC LM talking , albeit a month + or so back about suitability for a loan and our DoF recently talking about minutes and integration into the first team

Either JKL has since really impressed LM for talk proper first team integration , which is possible , or .... they aren’t quite on the same page ....which would be strange , and a niggling concern

I don’t think Tinnions quite got the balance between giving not enough and giving too much information. Remember we all knew that one kid in school who would say something when they only had half the story because they’re desparate for attention?

That’s Tinnion.

If you take the RB Friday interview he had to stop himself saying Tommy was going and then went into detail about who we’d be wanting in the summer. It was more detail than I’d expect to be given and weakens the negotiation hand.

I think with JKL, it’s again Tinnion being desparate to say something. Big up an academy player (You want to see the next ones coming through) - not because it’s happening, but because he wants and loves the attention. Because again that decision has to be LMs and with Liams reticence to play academy and Rob Atkinson due back, combined with results needed in view of form, it looks unlikely to happen

He’s a strange little man. Every pore of him is shouting “love me” - he’s desparate for it and you can see it in how he interacts.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I don’t think Tinnions quite got the balance between giving not enough and giving too much information. Remember we all knew that one kid in school who would say something when they only had half the story because they’re desparate for attention?

That’s Tinnion.

If you take the RB Friday interview he had to stop himself saying Tommy was going and then went into detail about who we’d be wanting in the summer. It was more detail than I’d expect to be given and weakens the negotiation hand.

I think with JKL, it’s again Tinnion being desparate to say something. Big up an academy player (You want to see the next ones coming through) - not because it’s happening, but because he wants and loves the attention. Because again that decision has to be LMs and with Liams reticence to play academy and Rob Atkinson due back, combined with results needed in view of form, it looks unlikely to happen

He’s a strange little man. Every pore of him is shouting “love me” - he’s desparate for it and you can see it in how he interacts.

As usual , an interesting post

 

And as usual I think you are probably on the money -

 

would make a lot of sense / explain why I’m so confused (I don’t think I’m alone) about some messages atm

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I don’t think Tinnions quite got the balance between giving not enough and giving too much information. Remember we all knew that one kid in school who would say something when they only had half the story because they’re desparate for attention?

That’s Tinnion.

If you take the RB Friday interview he had to stop himself saying Tommy was going and then went into detail about who we’d be wanting in the summer. It was more detail than I’d expect to be given and weakens the negotiation hand.

I think with JKL, it’s again Tinnion being desparate to say something. Big up an academy player (You want to see the next ones coming through) - not because it’s happening, but because he wants and loves the attention. Because again that decision has to be LMs and with Liams reticence to play academy and Rob Atkinson due back, combined with results needed in view of form, it looks unlikely to happen

He’s a strange little man. Every pore of him is shouting “love me” - he’s desparate for it and you can see it in how he interacts.

JKL is clearly a decent player, he’s had a number of U21 games (some as captain), and a brief cameo in the first team.

I would suggest that rather than improving him as a player the club has held him back, he has spent numerous games on the bench without (with a single exception I think), getting any game time, this must be detrimental to his development, he needs game time now, not when he gets to 23, this is a very important stage of his career.

I wouldn’t go so far as to accuse BT of craving attention, rather that he isn’t trained or has sufficient knowledge to deal with matters that require a modicum of discretion and discipline when answering questions.

Just another example of jobs for the boys.

 

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

 

He’s a strange little man. Every pore of him is shouting “love me” - he’s desparate for it and you can see it in how he interacts.

Do you reckon he wanted the love from Nige and was rebuffed?

Hell hath no fury than a DoF scorned

(or whatever he's called himself)

Joking aside, if Lansdown's trusted expert was regarded as a no mark by NP, then it was only ever ending one way, and I think if LM fails, the coach takes the rap not Tinnion.

[Glen hump]

26 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Do you reckon he wanted the love from Nige and was rebuffed?

Hell hath no fury than a DoF scorned

(or whatever he's called himself)

Joking aside, if Lansdown's trusted expert was regarded as a no mark by NP, then it was only ever ending one way, and I think if LM fails, the coach takes the rap not Tinnion.

If Lm  it’s all on bt and Jon , no hiding from it .

Just now, Glen hump said:

If Lm  it’s all on bt and Jon , no hiding from it .

If lm fails 

[Superjack]

6 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

If Lm  it’s all on bt and Jon , no hiding from it .

If lm fails 

They WILL hide from it though. They always ****ing do. 

 

Cowards.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Glen hump said:

If Lm  it’s all on bt and Jon , no hiding from it .

If lm fails 

No hiding I agree, but they still wont accept any responsibility.

 

[chinapig]

5 hours ago, Countryfile said:

I wouldn’t go so far as to accuse BT of craving attention, rather that he isn’t trained or has sufficient knowledge to deal with matters that require a modicum of discretion and discipline when answering questions.

Absolutely. There's plenty of interviewing skills training available (though most interviewers in the media don't seem to have had any).

But what BT and JL both need is training for interviewees. That might at least stop them blurting stuff out without thinking like Tinnion did, as you say.

It might also have stopped Jon saying this was the first time in 20 years that they knew exactly what they wanted from a head coach, apparently unaware that he was admitting they had been getting it wrong for 20 years!

Hard to believe I know but it's just possible though that they would not be up to the job even with training.

[Carey 6]

On 03/02/2024 at 19:27, Edgy Red said:

I agree with almost all of your choices apart from Mehmeti. I think there is a player there who is comfortable accepting the ball and he deserves some time and a run in the team. He may come good, he may not, but we don't really have anyone else like him.

The only other one i'm slightly unsure about is Tanner. If he's a back up right back then maybe, but i just don't think he's good enough to be starting regularly.

Your comments & a couple of others regarding the loss of experience in the upcoming summer, reminded me of this tweet regarding senior players from NP when he left. 

 

I guess that would’ve been a major disagreement between NP/BT regarding who was getting new contracts.

When City lost Basso, Orr & Trundle all in the same summer around 2010 I always felt like we lost 3 players that were great for the squad morale etc. I’m not suggesting we keep players around purely for those purposes but it could be counter productive to let so many go all at once. 

Weimann & Williams are big characters & will be missed much like the three mentioned above. I’d definitely be looking to keep Williams, but I can’t make my mind up on Weimann.

None of us know how good of a coach King is, so can’t judge him on that but what we have all seen is how much Scott/Conway get on with him so he must’ve been good for them. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 hours ago, chinapig said:

Absolutely. There's plenty of interviewing skills training available (though most interviewers in the media don't seem to have had any).

But what BT and JL both need is training for interviewees. That might at least stop them blurting stuff out without thinking like Tinnion did, as you say.

It might also have stopped Jon saying this was the first time in 20 years that they knew exactly what they wanted from a head coach, apparently unaware that he was admitting they had been getting it wrong for 20 years!

Hard to believe I know but it's just possible though that they would not be up to the job even with training.

The bizarre thing is that after taking 20 years to figure out exactly what it is they wanted, they then appointed a head coach that didn't meet the description of what they said they wanted. 

[mozo]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The bizarre thing is that after taking 20 years to figure out exactly what it is they wanted, they then appointed a head coach that didn't meet the description of what they said they wanted. 

Straight after appointing Nige who in every single way is not what they like or wanted.

[Ivorguy]

I agree about the lack of training of those at the top of the club in the basics of good management.  This is becoming an embarrassment for the club.  I have said for years now that when appointing staff, including managers and players, they need to bring in professional advisers,and my old chestnut that we need an independent audit of club management.

 

it is frankly unbelievable that a company as large as it is is run so amateurishly

 

[TomSutton]

10 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Your comments & a couple of others regarding the loss of experience in the upcoming summer, reminded me of this tweet regarding senior players from NP when he left. 

 

I guess that would’ve been a major disagreement between NP/BT regarding who was getting new contracts.

When City lost Basso, Orr & Trundle all in the same summer around 2010 I always felt like we lost 3 players that were great for the squad morale etc. I’m not suggesting we keep players around purely for those purposes but it could be counter productive to let so many go all at once. 

Weimann & Williams are big characters & will be missed much like the three mentioned above. I’d definitely be looking to keep Williams, but I can’t make my mind up on Weimann.

None of us know how good of a coach King is, so can’t judge him on that but what we have all seen is how much Scott/Conway get on with him so he must’ve been good for them. 

I think with Williams he’s entering the prime of his career I imagine they’ll be a divide from where we view him wage wise to where his agent and himself view him.

I imagine like we had with AW if a compromise can be met then I could see him signing but as it stands it seems unlikely I don’t even believe the club are pursuing it like “allegedly” they are with TC. I imagine they’ll be looking to see if they can get better either through free agency or the market but most likely I imagine the former. 

I could see this decision being made in April time my gut says he goes which will be a loss because we’ve seen what he can do when he’s at it. Brings a real tenacious nature to that midfield almost like a throwback to a Marvin Elliot which we don’t otherwise have. However, does always want an extra touch for me while he does have a decent range of passing the consistency isn’t always there and if LM is sticking true to his word around dominating games that would mean us having more possession. 

I feel that Williams is one of those players who affect the game more and make more of an impact when we don’t have the ball ie winning it back or vocalising the press. If we are going to be a possession based team rather than a counter I could see him not being as effective as he is atm.

[One Team]

18 hours ago, Glen hump said:

If Lm  it’s all on bt and Jon , no hiding from it .

If lm fails 

I agree, and Manning was Tinnion’s appointment, but if he (LM) fails then I’m sure Tinnion and Lansdown will distance themselves from it. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, TomSutton said:

I think with Williams he’s entering the prime of his career I imagine they’ll be a divide from where we view him wage wise to where his agent and himself view him.

I imagine like we had with AW if a compromise can be met then I could see him signing but as it stands it seems unlikely I don’t even believe the club are pursuing it like “allegedly” they are with TC. I imagine they’ll be looking to see if they can get better either through free agency or the market but most likely I imagine the former. 

I could see this decision being made in April time my gut says he goes which will be a loss because we’ve seen what he can do when he’s at it. Brings a real tenacious nature to that midfield almost like a throwback to a Marvin Elliot which we don’t otherwise have. However, does always want an extra touch for me while he does have a decent range of passing the consistency isn’t always there and if LM is sticking true to his word around dominating games that would mean us having more possession. 

I feel that Williams is one of those players who affect the game more and make more of an impact when we don’t have the ball ie winning it back or vocalising the press. If we are going to be a possession based team rather than a counter I could see him not being as effective as he is atm.

However you also need press when out of possession to win the ball back..Possession based sides, what is done in possession that is just one side of the coin.

Assuming James and King didn't stay he would suddenly he one of our elder statesmen in midfield, albeit as you say entering peak years..one of our more experienced players in short. We should definitely look to retain IMO.

Edited February 6 by Mr Popodopolous