Joe Williams

[BCFCOFSWEDEN]

Have we offered him a new contract?

If not, do it fast!

[Steve Watts]

No.

And too bloody right.  Should be an absolute top priority.  For me, currently player of the season by a country mile.

Edit: To clarify, I was responding to both your points, not saying it was too bloody right that we hadn't offered him a contract!!!

Edited February 8 by Steve Watts

[Cityboy1954]

4 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

No.

And too bloody right.  Should be an absolute top priority.  For me, currently player of the season by a country mile.

Edit: To clarify, I was responding to both your points, not saying it was too bloody right that we hadn't offered him a contract!!!

The experienced one to keep with the young ones next year get rid of the others .

[Steve Watts]

I'd be adding Andy King to that list but have accepted the fact that we won't.  Mr dependable whenever called upon and experience in droves.

[Davefevs]

I think Joe has been playing well all season, although for some perhaps it’s been noticeable under LM.  Had an injury (calf)neither side of the manager change, but I think he gives us something different, and is in his peak years.

I think he’s proved he’s over the hamstring injuries and would give good balance to the rest of the midfield next season…which will be a young central-midfield.

Williams (27 at start of season)

Knight (22)

Gardner-Hickman (22)

Bird (23)

Murphy (19)

+++++

Benarous (21)

Taylor-Clarke (20)

Backwell (21)

+++++

not included Stokes as I don’t see him playing any deeper roles, expect Kadji, James and King to be released, nor the wide midfielders.

But the 5 above is a good core imho.

[RedRoss]

The thinking at the start of this season would have been to not renew.

Now it's intirely a different story. Think he's got back to his Wigan form days. He's been brilliant.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

The thinking at the start of this season would have been to not renew.

Now it's intirely a different story. Think he's got back to his Wigan form days. He's been brilliant.

Imagine going into the summer knowing midfield is sorted. That would be really good.

[Tony Tootle]

I don't think he is that bothered about staying here TBH and will have offers from other clubs up North.

[RedRoss]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Imagine going into the summer knowing midfield is sorted. That would be really good.

Yeah not sure we've been in that position for a while now. We've had decent players but we'll have the strength in depth you've mentioned. To cover inevitable injuries, suspensions, form ect.

Across the board asides from the elusive striker position. Although it's an annoyance to look to next season already I do think we've got a good squad going forward.

[Redrascal2]

He is adding the bite to midfield which we have lacked for a long time. Really hope he stays. It would be madness to lose him now. But this is Bristol City and if they can leave us without any goal scoring strikers then they are more than capable of cocking this up.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, RedRoss said:

Yeah not sure we've been in that position for a while now. We've had decent players but we'll have the strength in depth you've mentioned. To cover inevitable injuries, suspensions, form ect.

Across the board asides from the elusive striker position. Although it's an annoyance to look to next season already I do think we've got a good squad going forward.

I know many will say “he’s one of our top earners, he’ll have to take a cut”, and I tend to agree, but in some respects you can treat him like a free transfer / academy player, virtually all of his fee amortisation is now sunk.  So if you have to pay a little more than his going rate, the fact you aren’t having to sign a new player makes it cheaper in the long run.

He’s been putting up good numbers all season.

[Clevedon Red]

5 minutes ago, Tony Tootle said:

I don't think he is that bothered about staying here TBH and will have offers from other clubs up North.

How do you deduce that?

[RedRoss]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know many will say “he’s one of our top earners, he’ll have to take a cut”, and I tend to agree, but in some respects you can treat him like a free transfer / academy player, virtually all of his fee amortisation is now sunk.  So if you have to pay a little more than his going rate, the fact you aren’t having to sign a new player makes it cheaper in the long run.

He’s been putting up good numbers all season.

In fairness, I've been saying that too but each and every game he's played I've been more and more  convinced we've got to retain him. Especially if we're losing James and King.

I think Tinnion eluded to this in his RB interview. He said they are playing for their contracts and didn't sound convicing but picked Williams out specifically re the form he's in.

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

For me, beyond Williams' form, the big thing is trying to minimise the non-essential transfer business over the summer so we can focus on getting in an attacking midfielder and key striker, especially if the belief is we'll be losing Conway. Keeping Williams enables us to know our budget and focus it where needed. Even in terms of his wage, paying him a little more might avoid paying a transfer fee for someone else. 

[95red]

3 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

In fairness, I've been saying that too but each and every game he's played I've been more and more  convinced we've got to retain him. Especially if we're losing James and King.

I think Tinnion eluded to this in his RB interview. He said they are playing for their contracts and didn't sound convicing but picked Williams out specifically re the form he's in.

 

 

He ain't just become  a great player  always  have just been  unlucky  with injuries . Cost alot of money  to replace  his quality  

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

In fairness, I've been saying that too but each and every game he's played I've been more and more  convinced we've got to retain him. Especially if we're losing James and King.

I think Tinnion eluded to this in his RB interview. He said they are playing for their contracts and didn't sound convicing but picked Williams out specifically re the form he's in.

 

 

Yes, I suspect that if you’re like me, you’ve been waiting to see if there’s been a drop off (nope) or injury reoccurrence (nope) before committing your view.

[JP Hampton]

8 minutes ago, 95red said:

He ain't just become  a great player  always  have just been  unlucky  with injuries . Cost alot of money  to replace  his quality  

You’re right my OH and I have just been waiting for him to get back to what we saw early on. You can’t ask for more passion either while we’re at it. 

30 minutes ago, Tony Tootle said:

I don't think he is that bothered about staying here TBH and will have offers from other clubs up North.

What makes you think that?

[Shauntaylor85]

Tinnion has liked a post from another fan on X who asked him to sign up Williams to a new deal. 

[1960maaan]

It wasn't just an injury, it was getting injured after an injury and breaking down during come backs, must have absolutely smashed his confidence in his own body.
I think we ( him and us ) are reaping the benefit  of him being totally confident those problems are gone, or at least he can trust himself to be up to playing game after game. I think we are seeing the player we thought we had signed in the beginning . The only slight difference could be his mind, he's had a lot of time to think about things over the last few years and is starting to lead on the pitch. He looks a complete midfielder , goals apart maybe , he has just about everything . 
I really hope he stays. 

[Harry]

6 months ago I’d have happily said no extension. 
But to be fair, he’s really proving himself and for me he does now deserve a new deal. 
 

Question is, on what terms? 
 

As alluded to above, Joe is likely one of our highest earners. And if we take his total contract over his 4 years here so far, he’s not really given us value for money. 
It wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest that he’s been earning around £1m per year over the last 4 years. Add the fee and we’re talking around £5m total. 
And we’ve only really seen any value from that in the last 4 months or so. 
So we’ve seen a fair amount of money down the drain, but of course through no fault of his own. 
 

I would imagine (well in fact I had actually heard it confirmed) that we will offer him a deal on reduced salary. 
I guess it depends how much we’ve reduced it. And he will of course be free to talk to other clubs to see if they can offer him anything better. 

I’d say it’s fair and reasonable for us to offer reduced terms. Whilst he may currently deserve at least the same as he’s on now, I’d be offsetting that against his 2.5 years of being unavailable, so reduced terms is fair, in my opinion (to re-accrue some of that lost money). 
 

But. Let’s say we offer him 3 years at his current rate. That’ll be £3m. 
Are there other players who we could bring in at half the salary and circa £1.5m fee? Maybe. 
But if none of those are available at that price and wage then I’d have no qualms in Joe sticking around. 

Edited February 8 by Harry

[Mr Popodopolous]

What was the fee in the end, somewhere between £1-2m iirc?

You can knock that amortisation off for a start with any new deal, that alone is a (non-cash) saving.

[Malago]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think Joe has been playing well all season, although for some perhaps it’s been noticeable under LM.  Had an injury (calf)neither side of the manager change, but I think he gives us something different, and is in his peak years.

I think he’s proved he’s over the hamstring injuries and would give good balance to the rest of the midfield next season…which will be a young central-midfield.

Williams (27 at start of season)

Knight (22)

Gardner-Hickman (22)

Bird (23)

Murphy (19)

+++++

Benarous (21)

Taylor-Clarke (20)

Backwell (21)

+++++

not included Stokes as I don’t see him playing any deeper roles, expect Kadji, James and King to be released, nor the wide midfielders.

But the 5 above is a good core imho.

You writing off James staying Dave?

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, Malago said:

You writing off James staying Dave?

James won’t be staying. 
One reason for disagreement between Nige and “the club” was that Nige was pushing for James to stay but “the club” didn’t agree. 
I can’t see “the club” changing their mind even if Manning wants him to stay. 
Simply because his salary is too high and we won’t pay that level any more. 

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

6 months ago I’d have happily said no extension. 
But to be fair, he’s really proving himself and for me he does now deserve a new deal. 
 

Question is, on what terms? 
 

As alluded to above, Joe is likely one of our highest earners. And if we take his total contract over his 4 years here so far, he’s not really given us value for money. 
It wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest that he’s been earning around £1m per year over the last 4 years. Add the fee and we’re talking around £5m total. 
And we’ve only really seen any value from that in the last 4 months or so. 
So we’ve seen a fair amount of money down the drain, but of course through no fault of his own. 
 

I would imagine (well in fact I had actually heard it confirmed) that we will offer him a deal on reduced salary. 
I guess it depends how much we’ve reduced it. And he will of course be free to talk to other clubs to see if they can offer him anything better. 

I’d say it’s fair and reasonable for us to offer reduced terms. Whilst he may currently deserve at least the same as he’s on now, I’d be offsetting that against his 2.5 years of being unavailable, so reduced terms is fair, in my opinion (to re-accrue some of that lost money). 
 

But. Let’s say we offer him 3 years at his current rate. That’ll be £3m. 
Are there other players who we could bring in at half the salary and circa £1.5m fee? Maybe. 
But if none of those are available at that price and wage then I’d have no qualms in Joe sticking around. 

To some extent you have to forget what has happened in the past 3.5 (will be 4) years.  That money is sunk.  My guess is that Williams is on £15-18k p.w at the mo, but that’s kinda irrelevant come July 1st.

But the bit in bold is key.

As you say, we now have to think about replacing him, and the cost of that.  I’m assuming Bird is one piece in the James, Williams, King replacement jigsaw, so we need one more….one of which could be retain Williams.

Can we get someone in as good / better for what you're gonna outlay on Williams - let’s say over the next 2 / 3 years?  There is of course the thinking of the alternative player you bring in might have future value too.  So lots of things to consider.

For me he’s different to what we have (inc Bird) too, and that’s quite apppealing in what is likely to continue to be a young side.

22 minutes ago, Malago said:

You writing off James staying Dave?

Yes.  Don’t think he’ll be retained.

[RedRaw]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Tinnion has liked a post from another fan on X who asked him to sign up Williams to a new deal. 

What the “I’m off X” tinnion? 

[RedEyez]

Absolutely has to be kept around as the experienced head. Plus the boy can really play. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think Joe has been playing well all season, although for some perhaps it’s been noticeable under LM.  Had an injury (calf)neither side of the manager change, but I think he gives us something different, and is in his peak years.

I think he’s proved he’s over the hamstring injuries and would give good balance to the rest of the midfield next season…which will be a young central-midfield.

Williams (27 at start of season)

Knight (22)

Gardner-Hickman (22)

Bird (23)

Murphy (19)

+++++

Benarous (21)

Taylor-Clarke (20)

Backwell (21)

+++++

not included Stokes as I don’t see him playing any deeper roles, expect Kadji, James and King to be released, nor the wide midfielders.

But the 5 above is a good core imho.

Do you see Naismith as primarily a centre back?

[Merrick's Marvels]

10 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Do you see Naismith as primarily a centre back?

Personally, I think that should be "Do you see Naismith as primarily irrelevant?".

And I'd make it rhetorical.

[Curr Avon]

3 hours ago, BCFCOFSWEDEN said:

Have we offered him a new contract?

If not, do it fast!

Yes, and we've sent it by the same courier service we used for re-signing Liam Rosenior in 2003, Manwivnovan.

[Curr Avon]

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Personally, I think that should be "Do you see Naismith as primarily irrelevant?".

And I'd make it rhetorical.

No. It should be:

"Do you see Naismith?"

"No."

"Now try with your right eye."

Edited February 8 by Curr Avon