Why hasn’t Manning been sacked?

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Got to say Dave that the poor results under Pearson are very clear facts, and not at all my subjective opinion.  What was it, second lowest percentage of any City manager?  When he was sacked we’d won 3 league matches from 10 this season (30%); I believe that Manning’s record is 9 from 23, so just under 40% win percentage.

As far as I can see almost nothing I’ve said was particularly subjective, but anything not praising Pearson to the hilt seems to be met with a flurry of face palms and other negative emojis.  Oddly enough polarisation was what I was trying to avoid, but it doesn’t seem possible to have any sensible discussion on this site any more, sadly.

9 from 23 are you sure??

It is 6 from 19 in the League and 7 from 23 which granted was tbh a nice little Cup run.

3 from 10, the final half of which was in the midst of a month long injury crisis and are you even accounting for the Fleming game. How you weighting this?

Fairly sure the Swansea game followed the Hull game so we won 4 of the last 10 anyway.

Edited February 26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

12 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Got to say Dave that the poor results under Pearson are very clear facts, and not at all my subjective opinion.  What was it, second lowest percentage of any City manager?  When he was sacked we’d won 3 league matches from 10 this season (30%); I believe that Manning’s record is 9 from 23, so just under 40% win percentage.

As far as I can see almost nothing I’ve said was particularly subjective, but anything not praising Pearson to the hilt seems to be met with a flurry of face palms and other negative emojis.  Oddly enough polarisation was what I was trying to avoid, but it doesn’t seem possible to have any sensible discussion on this site any more, sadly.

Again, you have to take the results in the context of the hand he was dealt. 

Second lowest percentage? Perhaps. 

But by a country mile the biggest 'hands tied behind back' situation of any City manager. 

Throughout his tenure. 

Heartbreaking that he had just slipped the knots.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Oh no, that person was quite in favour of his appointment, until we had that losing run, constantly ignoring any context and thought it might tarnish his reputation, so revisioned history that he hadn’t been in favour at all, but thought he’d have been a good choice a couple of years earlier.

Hmmmm!

At this point I'm sure Ian Gay must be a parody? 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

9 from 23 are you sure??

It is 6 from 19 in the League and 7 from 23 which granted was tbh a nice little Cup run.

3 from 10, the final half of which was in the midst of a month long injury crisis and are you even accounting for the Fleming game. How you weighting this?

Fairly sure the Swansea game followed the Hull game so we won 4 of the last 10 anyway.

Think NP around a bit longer, so the played/won league games this season are:

NP 14/5 36%
CF 1/1 100%
LM 19/6 32%

 

[JP Hampton]

11 hours ago, TV Tom said:

At a guess i would say there's very little in it, certainly not enough to be pedantic

I think it’s being seen through the lens of “he was supposed to improve things” so yes it should really read “no better” in that context. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Think NP around a bit longer, so the played/won league games this season are:

NP 14/5 36%
CF 1/1 100%
LM 19/6 32%

 

Thanks, that is my recollection too.

I should add, if we win 3 of the next 4 that will be a real good sign and push us legitimately up to 9/23 which will suddenly look a tad better.

[Galley is our king]

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

9 from 23 are you sure??

It is 6 from 19 in the League and 7 from 23 which granted was tbh a nice little Cup run.

3 from 10, the final half of which was in the midst of a month long injury crisis and are you even accounting for the Fleming game. How you weighting this?

Fairly sure the Swansea game followed the Hull game so we won 4 of the last 10 anyway.

Yes you are correct.

NP's last 10 games we beat 

Swansea

Plymouth 

Rotherham 

Coventry 

5 from 11 if you include the Fleming game.

Sorry if this doesn't fit some people narrative or memory but these are the facts.

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Got to say Dave that the poor results under Pearson are very clear facts, and not at all my subjective opinion.  What was it, second lowest percentage of any City manager?  When he was sacked we’d won 3 league matches from 10 this season (30%); I believe that Manning’s record is 9 from 23, so just under 40% win percentage.

As far as I can see almost nothing I’ve said was particularly subjective, but anything not praising Pearson to the hilt seems to be met with a flurry of face palms and other negative emojis.  Oddly enough polarisation was what I was trying to avoid, but it doesn’t seem possible to have any sensible discussion on this site any more, sadly.

Oh dear.

if you get your “stats” wrong, maybe you reach the wrong conclusions, factually or subjectively?

[REDOXO]

Pearson turned Semenyo into a 12m premier league striker. There was a bloody thread on here pages long about how he wasn’t one

He gave Scott his debut and nurtured that kid to a 25m windfall

He turned Pring into a first team player. Improved his engine and stopped loaning him out

He resurrected Vyner from nowhere.

Turned OLeary into a championship keeper with stats as good as anyone
 

He took on a club bloated with crap players got rid of the shite and gave contracts to those that were any good. 
 

 

He brought through and gave debuts to countless of our youth team and got shot of those who were never gonna make it. All the while being staved of the money LJ pissed away and facing a points deduction. 
 

Most know it some want to rewrite history. However it’s exactly what it is history. Here we go again a Lansdown whim on finding a young coach with no experience with players in this division let alone at least one maybe two with a premier league winners medals. 
 

Its all so Bristol ******* City. 

[MelksRed]

On 24/02/2024 at 17:18, Fuber said:

One unexpected win against Southampton makes it worse, to be honest, as it shows that the players can play well. Which means it's down to setup, tactics, and selection - all down to the Manager.

Down to motivation - no career enhancing opportunity like Southampton....players only want to turn up if they have a chance of being scouted for Prem clubs...irrespective of the input of the manager this macks of a total lack of professionalism.

Gone are they days when players played for the shirt. Just a stepping stone.....and we have clueless, spineless pr1cks in charge. What could go wrong?

[Fuber]

7 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Down to motivation - no career enhancing opportunity like Southampton....players only want to turn up if they have a chance of being scouted for Prem clubs...irrespective of the input of the manager this macks of a total lack of professionalism.

Gone are they days when players played for the shirt. Just a stepping stone.....and we have clueless, spineless pr1cks in charge. What could go wrong?

Wasn't any issue before Manning with this group.

[MelksRed]

6 hours ago, Fuber said:

Wasn't any issue before Manning with this group.

Agree with you entirely.....they had something inspirational to rally around with NP (who did have his faults...not blinkered)...now its about a mechanism for up and out....cant stand fake investment / passion / badge kissing - makes me angry. (Polite version as its a family show!)

Our players are starting to pick at each other in games....it won't be too long before the wheels come off. 

I'm hoping for another positive season based on realistic expectation rather than crappy soundbites to convince. 

Would rather they said...we want to aim for 8th....and be close than playoffs and be closer to the bottom than the top.

[Tim Monaghan]

On 24/02/2024 at 17:51, harvey54 said:

The only way that Manning will get sacked is if people stop going or renewing season tickets. Lansdown doesn't care if we're a mid table side going nowhere as long as 20k plus keep turning up every home game. Be a bit different if only 12 or 14k was our average gate. It's all about the money. He cares **** all about the football 

Do you really think it's all about the money? I don't. They have made some bad footballing decisions, but I believe they meant well. If money was their only motive, they would have aimed for the Premier League, where the big bucks are. Owning a football club is not a simple business venture.

We have had some terrible times, I admit. The Tinnion and Millen appointments were disasters, but we have also had some good ones.

We have hired some quality managers as well. Danny Wilson, Gary Johnson, Steve Cotterill and, yes, Nigel Pearson.

Remember how the fans reacted to Steve Cotterill? How they cheered for Coppell? How they begged for Houghton? It's not easy to get it right, is it? Football is unpredictable and complex. There is no formula for success, especially in this league, which is one of the toughest in the world.

I understand your frustration and I agree that mistakes have been made, but to accuse SL of not caring or being greedy is unfair.

But let's not get into another SL argument.

[Cowshed]

8 hours ago, MelksRed said:

Down to motivation - no career enhancing opportunity like Southampton....players only want to turn up if they have a chance of being scouted for Prem clubs...irrespective of the input of the manager this macks of a total lack of professionalism.

Gone are they days when players played for the shirt. Just a stepping stone.....and we have clueless, spineless pr1cks in charge. What could go wrong?

How do you know that?

I have ex players and mates at Melksham where players get paid £50 - £240 a week. Turning up to be scouted? Something else?

City's players. Through academy and youth football I know two players contracted to City. Living like Monks, highly professional, dedicated, grinding through the training, doing extras, not in XI match day squads. Desperate to play and not doing it to be scouted by Man U.

Your post is a bit sweepingly silly.

[MelksRed]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

How do you know that?

I have ex players and mates at Melksham where players get paid £50 - £240 a week. Turning up to be scouted? Something else?

City's players. Through academy and youth football I know two players contracted to City. Living like Monks, highly professional, dedicated, grinding through the training, doing extras, not in XI match day squads. Desperate to play and not doing it to be scouted by Man U.

Your post is a bit sweepingly silly.

Thanks (genuinely) for your response.

How is it that that the same group of players can play out of their skins against Southampton / West Ham but not against teams at the bottom of the league? Is it arrogance, an unwillingness to dig deep and grind something out or some thing else?

Could it be frustration that aspects of their life are controlled generating a negative mindset?

I don't think they intend to lose or underperform - merely looking to stoke the fires of conversation. 

Is it resilience? Is it just inconsistencies- if so how could we iron these out?

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Thanks (genuinely) for your response.

How is it that that the same group of players can play out of their skins against Southampton / West Ham but not against teams at the bottom of the league? Is it arrogance, an unwillingness to dig deep and grind something out or some thing else?

Could it be frustration that aspects of their life are controlled generating a negative mindset?

I don't think they intend to lose or underperform - merely looking to stoke the fires of conversation. 

Is it resilience? Is it just inconsistencies- if so how could we iron these out?

It's quite simple. 

In games such as Southampton/West Ham etc, we played a way which suited the style that suited what this squad was built for. 

The issue is when we try to get this squad to play a style which it wasn't built for.

Take nothing away from the West Ham games but as its a cup game there is always that question of motivation. 

Southampton game was also fantastic however they have struggled of late. 

Edited February 27 by W-S-M Seagull

[BrizzleRed]

11 hours ago, MelksRed said:

Down to motivation - no career enhancing opportunity like Southampton....players only want to turn up if they have a chance of being scouted for Prem clubs...irrespective of the input of the manager this macks of a total lack of professionalism.

Gone are they days when players played for the shirt. Just a stepping stone.....and we have clueless, spineless pr1cks in charge. What could go wrong?

Sadly, it’s beginning to look that way.  

The contrast between motivation and performance levels in high profile and televised games and your normal run-of-the-mill Championship games against poor opposition couldn’t be more obvious.

It’s getting beyond a joke.

[Numero Uno]

14 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Got to say Dave that the poor results under Pearson are very clear facts, and not at all my subjective opinion.  What was it, second lowest percentage of any City manager?  When he was sacked we’d won 3 league matches from 10 this season (30%); I believe that Manning’s record is 9 from 23, so just under 40% win percentage.

As far as I can see almost nothing I’ve said was particularly subjective, but anything not praising Pearson to the hilt seems to be met with a flurry of face palms and other negative emojis.  Oddly enough polarisation was what I was trying to avoid, but it doesn’t seem possible to have any sensible discussion on this site any more, sadly.

Your stats are wrong. LM has won 6 out of 19 league games and 1 out of 4 cup games. That isn’t even close to 40%. Nige was in charge for 14 and won 5. The non subjective facts are that Manning has a poorer record and he was brought in to improve our record with the current squad.

Anyone who ignores the situation Pearson walked into and isn’t making allowances when discussing his overall win record is surely guilty of not engaging in sensible discussion. Liam did not walk into a car crash, Pearson did, yet Manning’s points record is no better if not worse?

[red panda]

34 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Thanks (genuinely) for your response.

How is it that that the same group of players can play out of their skins against Southampton / West Ham but not against teams at the bottom of the league? Is it arrogance, an unwillingness to dig deep and grind something out or some thing else?

Could it be frustration that aspects of their life are controlled generating a negative mindset?

I don't think they intend to lose or underperform - merely looking to stoke the fires of conversation. 

Is it resilience? Is it just inconsistencies- if so how could we iron these out?

Just because clubs are near the bottom of the league doesn't mean they're crap at the moment!  Wednesday had a really dreadful start with 6 points from their first 17 games, but then picked up 26 points from the next 17 which is pretty decent form.  Similarly, QPR got 10 points from their first 17 games and then 25 from the next 17.  Over the last 5 games (arbitrary I know, but easy to find as the BBC's league tables show this), both QPR and Wednesday have better records that either Southampton or Boro.

[One Team]

13 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Pearson turned Semenyo into a 12m premier league striker. There was a bloody thread on here pages long about how he wasn’t one

He gave Scott his debut and nurtured that kid to a 25m windfall

He turned Pring into a first team player. Improved his engine and stopped loaning him out

He resurrected Vyner from nowhere.

Turned OLeary into a championship keeper with stats as good as anyone
 

He took on a club bloated with crap players got rid of the shite and gave contracts to those that were any good. 
 

 

He brought through and gave debuts to countless of our youth team and got shot of those who were never gonna make it. All the while being staved of the money LJ pissed away and facing a points deduction. 
 

Most know it some want to rewrite history. However it’s exactly what it is history. Here we go again a Lansdown whim on finding a young coach with no experience with players in this division let alone at least one maybe two with a premier league winners medals. 
 

Its all so Bristol ******* City. 

This post needs to be pinned to the home page for future reference!

[harvey54]

7 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Do you really think it's all about the money? I don't. They have made some bad footballing decisions, but I believe they meant well. If money was their only motive, they would have aimed for the Premier League, where the big bucks are. Owning a football club is not a simple business venture.

We have had some terrible times, I admit. The Tinnion and Millen appointments were disasters, but we have also had some good ones.

We have hired some quality managers as well. Danny Wilson, Gary Johnson, Steve Cotterill and, yes, Nigel Pearson.

Remember how the fans reacted to Steve Cotterill? How they cheered for Coppell? How they begged for Houghton? It's not easy to get it right, is it? Football is unpredictable and complex. There is no formula for success, especially in this league, which is one of the toughest in the world.

I understand your frustration and I agree that mistakes have been made, but to accuse SL of not caring or being greedy is unfair.

But let's not get into another SL argument.

I firmly believe that SL is in his comfort zone while we're mid-table in the championship.  He gets 20k die hards at home games, sells the crown jewels every couple of seasons and hardly ever pays big bucks for a player. If he really wanted a successful club he'd get in a proven football man to sort it out. I'm thinking maybe Pearson found him out, told him a few home truths and then waited for the inevitable.

And then he got in a Lee Johnson clone to work for Tinnion. 

Whilst I recognise that he's spent millions keeping the club going and building a new shiny stadium I'd love to see where we might have been if he'd employed people that knew how to run a football club. And not bumbled along with his son.

And it was Hughton. Not Houghton

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, harvey54 said:

I firmly believe that SL is in his comfort zone while we're mid-table in the championship.  He gets 20k die hards at home games, sells the crown jewels every couple of seasons and hardly ever pays big bucks for a player. If he really wanted a successful club he'd get in a proven football man to sort it out. I'm thinking maybe Pearson found him out, told him a few home truths and then waited for the inevitable.

And then he got in a Lee Johnson clone to work for Tinnion. 

Whilst I recognise that he's spent millions keeping the club going and building a new shiny stadium I'd love to see where we might have been if he'd employed people that knew how to run a football club. And not bumbled along with his son.

And it was Hughton. Not Houghton

 

He is losing/converting to equity some £10-20m per season.

Is that a comfort zone for him? Maybe. A true cash Balance comfort zone would be the 3rd tier with their wage to revenue ratio and our high income for the level.

Or possibly the PL albeit with the Losses and Cash Flow we can see there it isn't so clear.

£10-20m per season in Cash or Debt to Equity..who wants to pay that year in year out for no real discernible benefit.

Don't get me wrong I know what you're saying but is £10-20m a year in debt conversion or Cash Flow a great place to be?

Edited February 27 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He is losing/converting to equity some £10-20m per season.

Is that a comfort zone for him? Maybe. A true cash Balance comfort zone would be the 3rd tier with their wage to revenue ratio and our high income for the level.

Or possibly the PL albeit with the Losses and Cash Flow we can see there it isn't so clear.

£10-20m per season in Cash or Debt to Equity..who wants to pay that year in year out for no real discernible benefit.

Don't get me wrong I know what you're saying but is £10-20m a year in debt conversion or Cash Flow a great place to be?

10 million quid? Chump change to him.

What do all his investments make him anyway? 

And if that's what it costs to give his boy a job, that's what it costs...  

Edited February 27 by Merrick's Marvels

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

10 million quid? Chump change to him.

What do all his investments make him? 

And if that's what it costs to give his boy a job, that's what it costs...  

Well true, and yes he can easily afford it but...it seems a strange thing to be happy with (I know if is the case for most clubs at the level) just to tread water.

Enjoyable hobby? Vanity? Hope of striking it lucky and getting up?

Edited February 27 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well true, and yes he can easily afford it but...it seems a strange thing to be happy with (I know if is the case for most clubs at the level) just to tread water.

To be serious for a moment, I dare say there's an element of philanthropy about it all. The sporting landscape in Bristol would certainly look quite different without his support over the last several years. 

Personally, I don't share the suggestions you often read here that he doesn't care or that he's happy for us to tootling along in midtable mediocrity.

I think he's always been genuine when saying the Premier League is the aim.

My problem is he doesn't seem to have a clue how to achieve that - all the while hiring the wrong people and, when circumstances force him into hiring the right people (because we're in the sh!t after he hired the wrong people), he always finds a way to fire them at the earliest opportunity. And round and round we go. A clueless bloke surrounding himself with incompetent ones. 

It's worse than a Brian Rix farce. 

Edited February 27 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's worse than a Brian Rix farce. 

Although better than had it been Graeme Rix!

[1960maaan]

30 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's worse than a Brian Rix farce. 

I can think of very few criticisms worse than that , they were bloody awful .

Though there is always this ....

 

[TDarwall]

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I can think of very few criticisms worse than that , they were bloody awful .

Though there is always this ....

 

One of the 1st bands I saw live. Gotta love Davey & the boys.

[Merrick's Marvels]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Although better than had it been Graeme Rix!

Let's not go there!!

[Merrick's Marvels]

36 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

Gotta love Davey.

City fan?

Could swear I saw him in the East End back in the 90s.