Who Will Be The New Old Heads?

[The Original OTIB]

Without any doubt whatsoever, the STATED  position by the club and Manning was that they were in alignment (LM used that word). The club STATED that they believed in the squad (please don't derail via opinions about lies, incompetence, b.s., and all the other stuff that's been done to death, there are countless threads for that).

Manning said: "The big bit is the playing group that is currently here." - "The big attraction is the current group that are in place".  He was ok with what he was walking into and that: ""The balance in the group looks good". The balance being the OLD and the NEW.

Equally, on older professionals, he said that it is:  "Important for any group ... a core of senior players ... I'm big in terms drawing out that experience and that knowledge."

Now every close season will have a natural turnaround of players, so that will get them off the hook to some extent, but if they perceive now  (or season's end) that there is an imbalance at all, it will be one that they have stated that they did not see (or STATE thus) at the start of their "journey". All that aside, much of the change will undoubtedly be at the senior level. I can see this going one of two ways. 1. They will say that the seniors are those that remain, i.e. Rob Dickie and they will also bump up Zac (albeit at 27) into that category. Only younger players added. 2. Manning will bring in older heads from the lower divisions, people that he knows and has worked with to augment the aforementioned (or maybe an older, lesser known pro from West Ham as well). If two, will the club (well, BT) pitch in and identify senior players to bring in to add something else? I think (as do many) that we will see the end of King, James, Naismith, Wells, Williams (only 27, I know) and probably Cornick (I'd keep him, but that is a whole other, contentious area best left for other thread hysteria). That will leave Sykes as the next "senior(ish)", at the grand old age of 26 (have i missed anyone?).

The serious question is, who will be the new old heads for next season? 

** Footnote: This isn't a LM in or out thread, there are plenty of them already. I believe (95%) that he will be here so I'm not even bothering on that score. This is about likely trajectory into pre-season and into next.

 

 

[Carey 6]

Naismith & Wells will both be here next season under contract won’t they? 

Don’t see bids coming in for either. 

[MelksRed]

Agree ref Vyner - he will become a senior leader now....to be fair to him he has been leading in that regard for most of the season....setting the example (albeit the OG!).

Whilst I agree with your assertion of finding a few experienced players from the lower leagues, I'm not entirely sure about rationale here. They are in the lower leagues for a reason. Look at Cornick and Memeti who have both struggled to make a transition that has added impact over a protracted period. 

Teams on the cheap never pay off. Not saying we need to blow our biscuits on transfers....just getting some championship experience to assist the coaching and development of our younger players is key. 

Agree that Manning will be here next season. The sooner this gets put to bed the better. Whilst completely uninspiring he does need to be given more than half a season to make any change. We are (all but) safe. Nothing to lose for the remainder.....would like to see him properly experiment over the last 9 games. Sadly I don't think he has the minerals. 

Edited March 11 by MelksRed

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Carey 6 said:

Naismith & Wells will both be here next season under contract won’t they? 

Don’t see bids coming in for either. 

Naismith came on a free and will have one year left. He will be gone, in my view.

The Wells contract runs to the end of this year, if I recall correctly, as it was a "new" one in Dec 2022 for 2 years. Likely to go to a relegated Championship club or the local route (near neighbours). The former more likely owing to wages. All guesses, of course.

[Sheltons Army]

Good , and important topic IMO

Like a few others I’ve said this is one of my biggest concerns going into next year

Nit only are we looking likely to be missing a number of what I believe ‘better’ players , but some significant experienced characters and pros who are to a large degree worthy of the same credit as NP himself for the decent things that were happening on the playing side.

 

I don’t see us replacing with similar in terms of age or experience 

I guess it depends whether you believe how vital that experience and those culture setters are , or some sort of belief that in the ‘modern game’ its not so vital

 

Personally I’m absolutely in the former - Absolutely vital IMO

Not that easy to find and I don’t think we will go that way either.

[The Original OTIB]

5 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Agree ref Vyner - he will become a senior leader now....to be fair to him he has been leading in that regard for most of the season....setting the example (albeit the OG!).

Whilst I agree with your assertion of finding a few experienced players from the lower leagues, I'm not entirely sure about rationale here. They are in the lower leagues for a reason. Look at Cornick and Memeti who have both struggled to make a transition that has added impact over a protracted period. 

Teams on the cheap never pay off. Not saying we need to blow our biscuits on transfers....just getting some championship experience to assist the coaching and development of our younger players is key. 

Agree that Manning will be here next season. The sooner this gets put to bed the better. Whilst completely uninspiring he does need to be given more than half a season to make any change. We are (all but) safe. Nothing to lose for the remainder.....would like to see him properly experiment over the last 9 games. Sadly I don't think he has the minerals. 

Re: your paragraph 2, read what I said again. I said that I could see him doing that (older heads from lower leagues), I did not say that I agreed with it.

Re: Cornick, he came through the divisions but is an established Championship player, but let's not go down that hole, I like him, others do not.

[The Original OTIB]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good , and important topic IMO

Like a few others I’ve said this is one of my biggest concerns going into next year

Nit only are we looking likely to be missing a number of what I believe ‘better’ players , but some significant experienced characters and pros who are to a large degree worthy of the same credit as NP himself for the decent things that were happening on the playing side.

 

I don’t see us replacing with similar in terms of age or experience 

I guess it depends whether you believe how vital that experience and those culture setters are , or some sort of belief that in the ‘modern game’ its not so vital

 

Personally I’m absolutely in the former - Absolutely vital IMO

Not that easy to find and I don’t think we will go that way either.

Manning said he wanted them himself, to reiterate his words:  "Important for any group ... a core of senior players ... I'm big in terms drawing out that experience and that knowledge."

If some do not come in, then it is item 1. in my post above. 

[Carey 6]

Just now, The Original OTIB said:

Naismith came on a free and will have one year left. He will be gone, in my view.

The Wells contract runs to the end of this year, if I recall correctly, as it was a "new" one in Dec 2022 for 2 years. Likely to go to a relegated Championship club or the local route (near neighbours). The former more likely owing to wages. All guesses, of course.

Wells is out of contract next summer, signed until summer 2025.

I really don’t see either being a top target for any clubs that will pay them a wage close to what they’ll be getting now. 

If neither play at all next season, I can see us doing what we did with Martin & agreeing to mutual termination in January. But don’t see them going in the summer. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Naismith came on a free and will have one year left. He will be gone, in my view.

The Wells contract runs to the end of this year, if I recall correctly, as it was a "new" one in Dec 2022 for 2 years. Likely to go to a relegated Championship club or the local route (near neighbours). The former more likely owing to wages. All guesses, of course.

Wells also to 2025 iirc.

[BCFCGav]

Good thread OP, senior pros are important in any squad but especially in ours given we have lots of youth and we're in a bit of a contentious moment. So this should make for a good discussion.

I certainly like to think Kal will be sticking around, if we can have that season where his availability is high and he's a starting XI player for, say, 75% of games, I think that improves us no end. He's a very intelligent player, a very talented ball-playing defender with a very impressive range of passing. He could be a good start to the new 'leadership' group.

Dickie is clearly stepping up too, so he's another. And his availability has been very good, so he'll be leading on the pitch. 

James, Williams, King... I'd not be amazed if one, maybe even two, signed extensions. 

And then perhaps Manning will add one old head via recruitment. I do think we're in for a summer of high turnover as we leave the Pearson era and enter the Manning era. I'm sure they'd consider one or two senior pros as well as the youth we like to target.

[DirtySanchez]

Who on earth have Wells that contract?! I thought it was a one year deal.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Manning said he wanted them himself, to reiterate his words:  "Important for any group ... a core of senior players ... I'm big in terms drawing out that experience and that knowledge."

If some do not come in, then it is item 1. in my post above. 

I think due to his and staffs complete inexperience at this level it’s vital that we try and get in some true experience (But I believe we won’t)

I know it was a difficult testing period to clear the deadwood and bloated overpaid under performers etc and the stabilising and rebuild start , but the fact that someone with all Pearson’s experience made it a priority to acquire , and retain in new contracts , certain characters with significant experience is quite telling

So we are in a new phase , and I just get the vibe that we don’t see that as important- we can only wait and see 

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wells also to 2025 iirc.

Yes, June 2025, so corrected. I can still see him going to a relegated club, Sheff Weds or Birmingham being two obvious contenders.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

I think due to his and staffs complete inexperience at this level it’s vital that we try and get in some true experience (But I believe we won’t)

I know it was a difficult testing period to clear the deadwood and bloated overpaid under performers etc and the stabilising and rebuild start , but the fact that someone with all Pearson’s experience made it a priority to acquire , and retain in new contracts , certain characters with significant experience is quite telling

So we are in a new phase , and I just get the vibe that we don’t see that as important- we can only wait and see 

Take your point, but as I have pointed out twice now, he has stated it quite clearly as something that he is "BIG" on "a core of senior players". To me that means more than Rob and Zac, and I can't see him keeping many of the current older lot unless he has to. Ergo, who comes in, from what level and what blend will we be left with?

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Take your point, but as I have pointed out twice now, he has stated it quite clearly as something that he is "BIG" on "a core of senior players". To me that means more than Rob and Zac, and I can't see him keeping many of the current older lot unless he has to. Ergo, who comes in, from what level and what blend will we be left with?

Unless he was lying.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Unless he was lying.

With respect, there are plenty of other threads for such speculation. 

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

With respect, there are plenty of other threads for such speculation. 

It’s a reasonable question - not really sure what you were anticipating or wanting in reply wise to your op

 

I will leave this debate to others I think

 

[The Original OTIB]

9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s a reasonable question - not really sure what you were anticipating or wanting in reply wise to your op

 

I will leave this debate to others I think

 

I don't see "unless he was lying" as a reasonable question (or indeed statement) in this context. The thread takes them at face value, there are countless other threads about believability, credibiltiy, conspiracy, etc (we've all pitched in therein). I was merely hoping for a debate about the possible blend of older heads into what we have into pre-season/next season, from where they might be drawn and who they might be.

[Davefevs]

As others are suggesting, moving on senior players who are under contract (Wells, Naismith and Cornick) is only likely to be achieved if we continue contributing to their wages.  I’d rather keep Wells and Naismith.  Cornick it’s possible we might get offered a small fee that might offset some of the lost wages, but he has 2 years left on his deal this summer, not one year.

 

[The Original OTIB]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As others are suggesting, moving on senior players who are under contract (Wells, Naismith and Cornick) is only likely to be achieved if we continue contributing to their wages.  I’d rather keep Wells and Naismith.  Cornick it’s possible we might get offered a small fee that might offset some of the lost wages, but he has 2 years left on his deal this summer, not one year.

 

Naismith came on a free and one year to go (?), so I suspect a modest fee might move him on. Bonnie Scotland might beckon again.

 

Edited March 11 by The Original OTIB

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Naismith came on a free and one year to go (?), so I suspect a modest fee might move him on. Bonnie Scotland might beckon again.

 

Who is picking up his (alleged) £15k p.w. - that’s the issue!

[WECANDO]

1 hour ago, MelksRed said:

Agree ref Vyner - he will become a senior leader now....to be fair to him he has been leading in that regard for most of the season....setting the example (albeit the OG!).

Whilst I agree with your assertion of finding a few experienced players from the lower leagues, I'm not entirely sure about rationale here. They are in the lower leagues for a reason. Look at Cornick and Memeti who have both struggled to make a transition that has added impact over a protracted period. 

Teams on the cheap never pay off. Not saying we need to blow our biscuits on transfers....just getting some championship experience to assist the coaching and development of our younger players is key. 

Agree that Manning will be here next season. The sooner this gets put to bed the better. Whilst completely uninspiring he does need to be given more than half a season to make any change. We are (all but) safe. Nothing to lose for the remainder.....would like to see him properly experiment over the last 9 games. Sadly I don't think he has the minerals. 

Vyner should be captain as he is more of a leader than Knight. His position allows him to bark out instructions and encouragement. Then there's McCrorie who is vocal and can lead.

Poor old Cornick who dont af get some criticism should play up the middle at c/f with Conway or Wells circulating around him. He has shown that if given the ball to feet, he can shift his arse and out pace defenders. Get him muscled up in the close season and let him loose. Can't play in any other position effectively. 

As to Mehmeti, he looks to have improved somewhat in recent games. Although on Saturday he did delay shooting a couple of times when he could have tested their keeper. 

[The Original OTIB]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Who is picking up his (alleged) £15k p.w. - that’s the issue!

May well move on a free in lieu of a fee with wages covered.

[redkev]

1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

Naismith & Wells will both be here next season under contract won’t they? 

Don’t see bids coming in for either. 

If ( massive if ) Naismith can stay injury free we are a better side with him in it , but Christ even the most slightest of niggles he seems to be out for ages , ideally get rid not available enough 

[The Original OTIB]

13 minutes ago, redkev said:

If ( massive if ) Naismith can stay injury free we are a better side with him in it , but Christ even the most slightest of niggles he seems to be out for ages , ideally get rid not available enough 

I think age and injury record will be an additional factor in the decision. I'm not judging any of these players, just thinking about what might happen.

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As others are suggesting, moving on senior players who are under contract (Wells, Naismith and Cornick) is only likely to be achieved if we continue contributing to their wages.  I’d rather keep Wells and Naismith.  Cornick it’s possible we might get offered a small fee that might offset some of the lost wages, but he has 2 years left on his deal this summer, not one year.

 

Josh Murphy could be a type that might fit the Manning bill of older but with knowledge of him directly. Contract up in the summer, experience at this level and higher (albeit limited). Better than L1. Caveat: Not advocating, just musing on possibles.

Edited March 11 by The Original OTIB

[GrahamC]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Who is picking up his (alleged) £15k p.w. - that’s the issue!

No one.

He has mentioned more than once how he enjoyed his time at Pompey but I’d be amazed if they were interested in taking someone back who has a poor availability record over the last two years.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, WECANDO said:

Vyner should be captain as he is more of a leader than Knight. His position allows him to bark out instructions and encouragement. Then there's McCrorie who is vocal and can lead.

Poor old Cornick who dont af get some criticism should play up the middle at c/f with Conway or Wells circulating around him. He has shown that if given the ball to feet, he can shift his arse and out pace defenders. Get him muscled up in the close season and let him loose. Can't play in any other position effectively. 

As to Mehmeti, he looks to have improved somewhat in recent games. Although on Saturday he did delay shooting a couple of times when he could have tested their keeper. 

FWIW I think the last thing you want to burden Zak with is the captaincy.  Let him concentrate on being excellent at his own game.

Re Cornick, that’s how I’d play him too.

I’m really intrigued how the summer striker is gonna play on his own.

1 hour ago, The Original OTIB said:

May well move on a free in lieu of a fee with wages covered.

Do you mean, someone agrees to buy him for £0 but picks up his full wage (alleged) as they are saving paying a fee?  Yes, that’s possible, although I suspect he’d want more than a 12 month deal, but I’m speculating.

[The Original OTIB]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I think the last thing you want to burden Zak with is the captaincy.  Let him concentrate on being excellent at his own game.

Re Cornick, that’s how I’d play him too.

I’m really intrigued how the summer striker is gonna play on his own.

Do you mean, someone agrees to buy him for £0 but picks up his full wage (alleged) as they are saving paying a fee?  Yes, that’s possible, although I suspect he’d want more than a 12 month deal, but I’m speculating.

Yes.