Parachute payments v Golden Hellos

[Red Skin]

Parachute payments have completely undermined the championship as a competition.  They seemed to be a knee jerk response to clubs like Barnsley that collapsed after relegation from the top flight because they failed to build relegation terms into players contracts.

It's been interesting to hear some of the conversations around Forest's points deduction.  One defence I've heard is that as a club promoted they needed to buy a whole new squad of players if they were to have any chance of competing in the Premiership.  

So why not change the model?

Scrap parachute payments and instead use the money to give promoted clubs a golden hello so that can have a better chance of competing in the top flight? 

[Sir Geoff]

7 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Parachute payments have completely undermined the championship as a competition.  They seemed to be a knee jerk response to clubs like Barnsley that collapsed after relegation from the top flight because they failed to build relegation terms into players contracts.

It's been interesting to hear some of the conversations around Forest's points deduction.  One defence I've heard is that as a club promoted they needed to buy a whole new squad of players if they were to have any chance of competing in the Premiership.  

So why not change the model?

Scrap parachute payments and instead use the money to give promoted clubs a golden hello so that can have a better chance of competing in the top flight? 

And yet they paid 2.5 million for Josh Bowler and loaned him to Olympiakos a few days later. plus other examples of money wasted needlessly (Lingard / Shelvey).

 

[Red Skin]

3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

And yet they paid 2.5 million for Josh Bowler and loaned him to Olympiakos a few days later. plus other examples of money wasted needlessly (Lingard / Shelvey).

 

My post wasn't intended as a defence of Forest's claim, but it's clear that almost every year the promoted sides languish at the bottom of the premier league and  usually get relegated.   Why change the model and make the competition fairer in both divisions? 

Edited March 19 by Red Skin

[ExiledAjax]

Interesting. But I don't think it gets to he root of the problem and in fact could enhance it.

Championship clubs already fly as close as they can to bankrupting themselves, or distort their squads beyond repair, in an effort to chase the riches of the PL. Increasing how much money is given to a promoted team would only increase that desire to do absolutely anything possible to get there.

Also, if you're encouraging teams to spend a **** ton on promotion you need to couple it with protections on relegation. Otherwise you simply increase the cliff that a relegated team falls off...and all that does is encourage PL teams to spend more and more in a desperate attempt to stay in that division.

Ultimately it's not the answer for me.

[And Its Smith]

They get £150m  golden hello already.  Seems enough to me 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Parachute Payments have existed albeit at much lower levels since the PL did.

It is only in recent years, perhaps 10-15 or less where the chasm has become huge but it is outright incorrect to say they were invented in the mid 2000s. Perhaps they were formalised then.

Edited March 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[Laner]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

They get £150m  golden hello already.  Seems enough to me 

Which is why they always claim the Championship Play Off Final to be one of (if not the) most lucrative games in football.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

They get £150m  golden hello already.  Seems enough to me 

More like £100-110m albeit there are other non Fixed Revenue Streams that may or may not rise on Promotion.

[Mr Popodopolous]

You only have to look at some mid to late 1990s, early 2000s Accounts to see thst yes assuming the club didn't go bankrupt or into administration some comparables between Relegated and non Relegated 2nd tier clubs to see that 4hey die exist even pre the mythical mix 2000s invention as TV revenue for these still was higher.

[Major Isewater]

With all this money given to Prem clubs how come so many are in the brown stuff ? 
 

[Monkeh]

12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

With all this money given to Prem clubs how come so many are in the brown stuff ? 
 

Paying players 250k a week helps

If you want a level playing field then an international wage cap needs to be introduced 

Edited March 19 by Monkeh

[SecretSam]

IIRC it was the collapse of Bradford that triggered it. I hate them, they are a reward for failure and taking excessive risk. Get rid of them. Clubs will have to manage their contracts with players accordingly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, SecretSam said:

IIRC it was the collapse of Bradford that triggered it. I hate them, they are a reward for failure and taking excessive risk. Get rid of them. Clubs will have to manage their contracts with players accordingly.

This sounds like a potential myth thoigh as I checked some Accounts prior to this and it seems otherwise.

Not criticising you or the OP but this poor reporting doesn't account for an undoubted T.V. money advantage to freshly Relegated sides prior to this.

[SecretSam]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This sounds like a potential myth thoigh as I checked some Accounts prior to this and it seems otherwise.

Not criticising you or the OP but this poor reporting doesn't account for an undoubted T.V. money advantage to freshly Relegated sides prior to this.

Yes, they got the TV money, but only whilst in the PL. Anyway, **** 'em.

[Midred]

Did anything ever happen with Wolves or did all the arrangements cover them when their then manager allegedly bought players through his agent? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

Yes, they got the TV money, but only whilst in the PL. Anyway, **** 'em.

If I can find the now (bankrupt) company of Bolton from 1999 say prior to Bradford going up and going belly up, and a typical Championship club from the period I'm quite sure a gap will appear between the 2 for TV money.

[downendcity]

Given that clubs almost bankrupt themselves in the quest to secure promotion to the premier league,  almost bankrupt themselves in attempting to be competitive when they get there i and almost bankrupt themselves in attempting to stay in the premier league, just why is the premier league regarded as the "promised land?

 

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

IIRC it was the collapse of Bradford that triggered it. I hate them, they are a reward for failure and taking excessive risk. Get rid of them. Clubs will have to manage their contracts with players accordingly.

Trouble is that we know they won't do that. The short term nature of football means we would get some clubs, owned by some people, willing to omit a relegation clause from a contract if it meant getting a player to sign for them rather than a rival.

We know this because it happens. Until recently Everton didn't have relegation clauses int heir contracts. Our own club gave out contracts in the 70s that it ultimately couldn't back. Just two examples of what would happen.

So you'd get clubs, community institutions, going bust, or going through desperate insolvency procedures. Unless and until there's enough oversight of owners to ensure pragmatic and sensible commercial decisions are made (*cough* regulator with teeth *cough*) you do have to have some sort of safety net in place to protect the clubs and their fans from stupid owners.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Trouble is that we know they won't do that. The short term nature of football means we would get some clubs, owned by some people, willing to omit a relegation clause from a contract if it meant getting a player to sign for them rather than a rival.

We know this because it happens. Until recently Everton didn't have relegation clauses int heir contracts. Our own club gave out contracts in the 70s that it ultimately couldn't back. Just two examples of what would happen.

So you'd get clubs, community institutions, going bust, or going through desperate insolvency procedures. Unless and until there's enough oversight of owners to ensure pragmatic and sensible commercial decisions are made (*cough* regulator with teeth *cough*) you do have to have some sort of safety net in place to protect the clubs and their fans from stupid owners.

The problem here is that fans live the big spending too.

Not all but a lot, ride the wave.

It is worth just key word search Dai Yongge on Twitter between x and y, they were loving it a lot of them. I did up until 10th Feb 2021.

I bet Aston Villa fans were moving it, if ever a  bunch of tossers have led a charmed life it's them.

Stupid or reckless owners are a key problem. However where were Rams Trust when Mel Morris was pulling the loopholes and acting like a lunatic at times.

Edited March 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[SecretSam]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Trouble is that we know they won't do that. The short term nature of football means we would get some clubs, owned by some people, willing to omit a relegation clause from a contract if it meant getting a player to sign for them rather than a rival.

We know this because it happens. Until recently Everton didn't have relegation clauses int heir contracts. Our own club gave out contracts in the 70s that it ultimately couldn't back. Just two examples of what would happen.

So you'd get clubs, community institutions, going bust, or going through desperate insolvency procedures. Unless and until there's enough oversight of owners to ensure pragmatic and sensible commercial decisions are made (*cough* regulator with teeth *cough*) you do have to have some sort of safety net in place to protect the clubs and their fans from stupid owners.

Tough. Let 'em burn.

[ExiledAjax]

46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The problem here is that fans live the big spending too.

Not all but a lot, ride the wave.

It is worth just key word search Dai Yongge on Twitter between x and y, they were loving it a lot of them.

I bet Aston Villa fans were moving it, if ever a  bunch of tossers have led a charmed life it's them.

Stupid or reckless owners are a key problem. Where wwre Rams Trust when Mel Morris was pulling the loopholes and acting like a lunatic at times.

Ah the fans. Yes. The fans.

Not so long ago Forest fans were gleefully compiling "ze List" - which I believe you made it on to - in mockery of their rivals being strung up by the rules.

Well, well, well, how the turns tabled.

A moral perhaps not to gloat too much when opportunity arises?

Edited March 19 by ExiledAjax

[Mr Popodopolous]

@SecretSam @Red Skin

Plus anyone else.

There is a gap.

It isn't a gargantuan gap by any means but there is a gap between a more established Championship side and a side relegated in 1998.

I take that gap to be a small Parachute Payments.

Edited March 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ah the fans. Yes. The fans.

Not so long ago Forest fans were gleefully compiling "ze List" - which I believe you made it on to - in mockery of their rivals being strung up the rules.

Well, well, well, how the turns tabled.

A moral perhaps not to gloat too much when opportunity arises?

Ha yes I remember. Derby were so badly mismanaged that they were done for FFP and Administration simultaneously.

Mad Mel..yet Rams Trust were pretty acquiescent until the first real signs of issue. Their Supporters Trust.

Edited March 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

I shouldn't pick on Derby too much but these Tweets from the start of the Morris era really aged well.

They also appear to have deleted the word Mel from any Tweets post September 2015. Unless they didn't mention him in a Tweet at all since, Pravda would be proud. 

Edited March 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Tough. Let 'em burn.

I mean...I strongly disagree with this.

[IAmNick]

That's tackling the symptom, rather than the problem though right? I'd argue that so are parachute payments.

The problem isn't that there isn't enough money in the Championship / Championship teams aren't spending enough. The problem is that there's too much money in the Premiership. Limit them, and that'll reduce the chasm.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I mean...I strongly disagree with this.

How about, thought this for 2-3 years. Maybe more.

Solidarity Payments, Parachute Payments and EFL cash into one Pot.

Then distribute equally by the 3 EFL Divisions. This smooths a big Championship cliff-edge in particular.

Abolish Parachute Payments not just PL to EFL but internally within EFL.

There is a starting point.

[Lrrr]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

And yet they paid 2.5 million for Josh Bowler and loaned him to Olympiakos a few days later. plus other examples of money wasted needlessly (Lingard / Shelvey).

 

They got Olympiacos to buy Nelson Abbey from Reading as they couldn’t spend anything further in January, odds are on him moving to Forest in the summer. 

[CityGill]

3 hours ago, Red Skin said:

Parachute payments have completely undermined the championship as a competition.  They seemed to be a knee jerk response to clubs like Barnsley that collapsed after relegation from the top flight because they failed to build relegation terms into players contracts.

It's been interesting to hear some of the conversations around Forest's points deduction.  One defence I've heard is that as a club promoted they needed to buy a whole new squad of players if they were to have any chance of competing in the Premiership.  

So why not change the model?

Scrap parachute payments and instead use the money to give promoted clubs a golden hello so that can have a better chance of competing in the top flight? 

I have always wondered why all premier league clubs couldn’t have mandatory contract clauses in all playing staff contracts stating that should they get relegated all players contracts would be reduced to X amount …… determined by the income of the club. 
 

It seems to be that one of the biggest justification for parachute payments is to cover wages of players after relegation. So if players under-perform they still have their PL wages guaranteed. This is at the expense of fairness of competition throughout the EFL. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, CityGill said:

I have always wondered why all premier league clubs couldn’t have mandatory contract clauses in all playing staff contracts stating that should they get relegated all players contracts would be reduced to X amount …… determined by the income of the club. 
 

It seems to be that one of the biggest justification for parachute payments is to cover wages of players after relegation. So if players under-perform they still have their PL wages guaranteed. This is at the expense of fairness of competition throughout the EFL. 

 

They do, somewhere between 1/4 and even as much as half at times.

Think most who get relegated do. However the current system still horribly flawed.