Sunderland away match thread

[FNQ]

7 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

"A Difficult Place To Come".

Where isn't? I hate that bloody statement, means bugger all if you say it about absolutely everywhere.

Not too many saying that about Ashton Gate these days… we’re just as shit at home.

[Steve Watts]

2 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I think this league is brutal and there will be crap games and some poor performances. (I see myself as a realist.) We should kind of accept that , however frustrating it is.

Whilst I agree, the desired split is more decent than poor. The reality is that the pendulum swings sooooo far the other way that it becomes impossible to kind of accept that. 

Today was just more of the same and we can thank Max for the point. It was just a dire performance. All that rubbish on the pitch... And a fair amount of litter too!

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, phantom said:

I'm pleased to hear you've never had a bad day at the office. I wonder if your colleagues would feel the same 

One thing to your credit, win, lose or draw, great performance or bad performance you are still posting the same dull nonsense day after day on here 

I do wonder why you bother watching games or even posting on here if you don't enjoy it so much 

Very true, but sadly the team we've had on the pitch this season have consistently been like this all season 

Sadly a change in Manager hasn't seen a massive improvement 

Fortunately their friendships go much deeper than having a great night out.

They're currently happily enjoying their evening, some great photos coming back from everyone out together 

I'm not sure what you expect Phants? You want posters to post positive things when those positive things are lacking? 

Its only been a recent thing where I've stopped enjoying going. Probably since about November time. 

You must have seen all the posts from people who have said they are not renewing. I'm not the only one who's not enjoying this. 

 

[Rob k]

3 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

no point sacking manning, we would only get another cheap league one manager with a few results on his cv that will say yes to anything to get a crack in the championship. the people above him got the personality they want, relying on tinnion to teach him how to manage it. with his management skills leading the way now, i fear we are in deep shit

Liam Manning didn’t come ‘cheap’ 

[Son of Fred]

8 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

it's important that we win at least one of the next two home games and make sure we beat Rotherham. Getting done by that mob in our last home game of the season will certainly upset a few!!

Am I right in saying Rotherham have failed to win a single match on the road this season???..............

[The Coach]

56 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Am I right in saying Rotherham have failed to win a single match on the road this season???..............

Step up Bristol City

[redsquirrel]

4 hours ago, Rob k said:

Liam Manning didn’t come ‘cheap’ 

fair comment ,i have no idea what he cost,  

i will rephrase that to valuable as in skills,knowledge etc. 

i would expect to pay a lot more for an experienced  mechanic than an 18 year old with 2 years yts training behind him. 

is it not fair to assume that the same applies to a degree in football?

[95red]

Sum up last  3 games ,Leicester decent great win ,Leicester  3 0r 4 easy chances missed take  that against  top of league. Plymouth  on a awful run there for the taking first  35 we were crap ,second  half better just. Yesterday Sunderland  on a awful  run also ,points a point but Max saves us could have been 3 or 4 down we were crap  again. 7 points  gets us safe. Next season  for me under Manning  going to be another long boring slog no confidence  in him at all .

 

[Unan]

15 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

I thought there midfielder Pierre Ekwah looked a real quality player for them only 22 signed from West hams academy for free!!! Unreal bit of scouting.

His best game of the season afaia, they don’t like him at all and think he’s a dud

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

10 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

no point sacking manning, we would only get another cheap league one manager with a few results on his cv that will say yes to anything to get a crack in the championship. the people above him got the personality they want, relying on tinnion to teach him how to manage it. with his management skills leading the way now, i fear we are in deep shit

Really? 

[Bazooka Joe]

7 hours ago, Rob k said:

Liam Manning didn’t come ‘cheap’ 

And he’s definitely not “chirpy”.

[Alessandro]

10 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I think play-offs is out of reach as we stand (ie before summer recruitment - but it will need something significant to make us top six).  Success next season (for me) is top ten with some exciting performances. 
Failure is flirting with relegation/still looking  over our shoulder with ten games left. 

I think this league is brutal and there will be crap games and some poor performances. (I see myself as a realist.) We should kind of accept that , however frustrating it is.

I’ve no idea whether LM will ‘succeed’ or not, but I have some patience. I never bought the hierarchy’s supposed suggestion that we were capable of top six this season. They didn’t fund a big/strong enough squad for that. I take a lot of what football people say with a pinch of salt.

I can’t stand many of the unequivocal postings on this forum. They lack nuance and context. And I don’t like the personal attacks on LM. But that’s the world we live in: too much social media short-termism and knee-jerk reactions. Thirty years ago we went down the pub after a game, or whatever, and ranted with two or three mates about  a performance. Now we come on here and other sites, and everything is amplified. It’s nuts, frankly. Plus, some people take themselves far too seriously. I’ve hardly posted recently because I can’t be bothered with the aggro. 

Only two Bristol City managers in history have succeeded in getting us into the top division and I don’t even know the name of the first one. Mid-table in the Championship is not the worst place to be. Ten seasons in the Championship have been pretty good compared to many of the other forty-four seasons I’ve witnessed. I’d like to see us in the PL before I die but it’s a damn hard thing to achieve. It needs wisdom, skill, money, patience and luck. I’m not holding my breath. 

I really hate losing and I want every BC manager to succeed. I don’t mind a sacking (ruthless when necessary) but I think LM deserves more time. I’m surprised you’ve nailed your colours this early in his tenure but that’s your prerogative. I’ve seen good and bad under LM and I expect that will continue under him and every other BC manager I’ll see. Because that’s pretty much football life. 

 

I agree with much of your post, it's a very sensible, realistic one.

But I just want to pick up on your sentences in bold - I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot on here recently:

Something along the lines of "this is the way it's alway's been with City" or "it used to be much worse" and "it's football, it's tough, nothing's a given" etc etc.

And I just don't like it. At all - it's so...defeatist. So unambitious. So mediocre.

Do you think that's the attitude Ipswich have at the moment? Or Luton before them. Or Brentford before them? I could go on.

Yes it's a tough league and nothing is a given, but we should as a club and a fan base, be striving and demanding so much more from the club, even with the level of investment, IMO, we should be competing higher up the league.

The reason's for that have been done to death - but I personally don't subscribe to this "it is what it is" attitude. 

I believe the "10 seasons in the championship" is not necessarily the badge of honour you think. Why:

Well IMO mid-table championship is Bristol City's par - the fact we've spent so much time under that level shows how we've underachieved as a club and the fact we've been talking about 'potential' for 20 years shows every year more at mid-table in the championship is not fulfilling our potential.

 

 

 

[pillred]

Bristol City boss delivered this honest verdict on Sunderland draw and his 'outstanding' performer (msn.com)

[Jerseybean]

10 minutes ago, pillred said:

Bristol City boss delivered this honest verdict on Sunderland draw and his 'outstanding' performer (msn.com)

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/manning-on-sunderland-stalemate/

[phantom]

11 hours ago, Ashtongreight said:

That’s academic, he was supposed to be a better coach that would achieve more this season with our present squad. 

Out of interest who said he was a better coach? 

[Silvio Dante]

18 minutes ago, pillred said:

Bristol City boss delivered this honest verdict on Sunderland draw and his 'outstanding' performer (msn.com)

If he’s now happy it’s a 55 game season then how does that square with bitching about the number of games we had to play earlier in the season?

[phantom]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure what you expect Phants? You want posters to post positive things when those positive things are lacking? 

Its only been a recent thing where I've stopped enjoying going. Probably since about November time. 

You must have seen all the posts from people who have said they are not renewing. I'm not the only one who's not enjoying this. 

 

You clearly know your football and I like your posts, but I'm amazed that you still have so much negativity about it all 

Personally I think the football on offer has been dire for many years and where we are now is no worse (or better) than in a very long time 

I hope you find the spark again in the team 

[Street red]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not sure what you expect Phants? You want posters to post positive things when those positive things are lacking? 

Its only been a recent thing where I've stopped enjoying going. Probably since about November time. 

You must have seen all the posts from people who have said they are not renewing. I'm not the only one who's not enjoying this. 

 

I know what your saying and there isn't anything positive about the club at the minute,My season ended when they made the change and when I seen who was linked to the job I just couldn't believe it. I've not liked the appointment of manning since day one and that's not going to change.

[glynriley]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

Out of interest who said he was a better coach? 

I’m going all Sean O’Driscoll now. 
 

Stupid Question.

Nobody ‘specifically’ said he’s a better coach, but the implication from the 3 stooges, was that someone would come in and improve squad performance.

Ergo…

 

 

[willem ii]

13 hours ago, redkev said:

Was tongue in cheek phantom I have met a fair few of them on a fair few occasions at the Lions , Ashton gate , silver spoons at Wembley and a fair few away games , there a very lively bunch I will give them that and very protective 

not been to Tilburg yet though 

Always welcome to come over. We will greet you with open arms (and beers)!

[1960maaan]

27 minutes ago, phantom said:

Out of interest who said he was a better coach? 

I can't remember specifically , but the Club statement said  (along with the top 6 bollox ) that we were under performing and that Manning was brought in to take us to the next level . Paraphrasing , and I really can't be arsed to search for the interview , but that was the gist of it. 
So the they implied Pearson was under performing with the squad and Manning would improve us . Mind you it was supposed to be a seamless , perfect fit for continuity . In that respect , I feel sorry for Manning . 

[cotswoldred2]

18 hours ago, David Brent said:

What’s difficult to understand? I’d rather see encouraging performances.

We have nothing to play for so points are a byproduct.

Always something to play for...check your commitment.

[AshtonGreat]

12 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Context, Pearson was brought in to completely overhaul the Club, Manning was brought in to take the current squad onto a level it should be at . The owners thought we were under performing.

I liked Pearson , I thought he should have been given until the summer at least , but he's gone.

Now I judge the team on what they do. I don't give a shit that Jon said top 6 side , I do care about trajectory . I don't see any forward momentum at the moment . 
The owners didn't take into account that we had the weakest squad out just before  Pearson was binned , how does that equate now ? It was really unlucky that Dickie was out , I think his leadership could have meant the difference. 
Last game I thought his half time Subs showed that front foot leadership we wanted. Today was back to the 60 ish minute, like for like Subs . Not inspiring .

More or less the same as Pearson, by the Boards ideas is under performing . Just saying.

 

Sure, and he did some good work here - but two and a half years on, his results were much the same as the guy who's supposedly out of his depth

[David Brent]

18 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Always something to play for...check your commitment.

I’m not the one putting in performances like yesterday 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Sure, and he did some good work here - but two and a half years on, his results were much the same as the guy who's supposedly out of his depth

As per my post last night, there’s much more to it than results.

You only need an inch of water to drown.  That’s my way of saying “out of depth” means he’s not at the required level.  He doesn’t have to be much below that level, remember it’s fine margins!

[David Brent]

I can’t be the only one who enjoyed our football under Nigel. Where has the idea that we’ve been ‘dire for years’ come from.

I enjoyed the counter-attacking style we had which worked for what we had available. I personally particularly enjoyed watching WSM season. 

[Jerseybean]

Player ratings https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-player-ratings-sunderland-9209748?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Bristol+Live+-+BCFC+Newsletter_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=eda3a0ce-34ec-4a85-96cd-ae68727a6b80

What does Max need to do to get a 10? 

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

As per my post last night, there’s much more to it than results.

You only need an inch of water to drown.  That’s my way of saying “out of depth” means he’s not at the required level.  He doesn’t have to be much below that level, remember it’s fine margins!

Well, as I said, I'm prepared to give him a summer. And he'll get that anyway, so everyone will have to accept it

[David Brent]

9 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Sure, and he did some good work here - but two and a half years on, his results were much the same as the guy who's supposedly out of his depth

You keep comparing apples and oranges 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

Sure, and he did some good work here - but two and a half years on, his results were much the same as the guy who's supposedly out of his depth

Yep , roughly. 

I would have liked to see what would have happened if he'd been given the time to get those returning players back in. I came away from Cardiff fed up with losing, but optimistic there were signs we could kick on. 

That was not to be , but the fans were sold a plan that the new man would improve this squad , this season . That isn't on Manning. But I haven't seen much to think it will be better next year.  

There have been times we have lost games due to the other coaches making changes we couldn't cope with or react too. We tend to do Subs by the numbers and by the clock, the one time we didn't was at Plymouth and it worked and I was optimistic , for a short time. 
Yesterday, as I said elsewhere , Dickie being out is a big factor . But we seem to set up to a plan, that plan is always right and any changes will be personnel not plan . I am not seeing him adapt or learn , be proactive or positively reactive . For him not to be out of his depth will take a change of ideas and attitude on his part IMO , he will sink or swim on that. The Championship is a hard place to learn on the job.