Joe Williams - New 3 Year Deal - CONFIRMED

[Davefevs]

56 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Why do we need his bite if our aim is to control a large percentage of possession and pass it more efficiently and effectively. What we require more is a press resistant player  that can hold that ball and pick progressive passes to compliment knight and TGH industry and birds technical ability. We need a carrick type player. 
williams becomes good if we need to constantly win the ball back but I’m guessing we’re not aiming to be a counter team and chasing the game. The more I think of it, the more I think we can move on from Williams, his high wages and his likely demand for a starting birth which he doesn’t warrant.

I’m glad you have faith that we can turn into that side!  I’ve seen little evidence (so far). In fact our share of possession has gone down (fractionally) under Manning.  Now of course you’ll argue it’s because we’ve got players like Williams in our side.  Until we have the best players in the league, I think it’s a bit of a fantasy that we can play the type of football you describe.

I’d rather we tried to play more like Coventry of 22/23 or Ipswich 23/24, I think that’s a far more achievable way of getting success…and you do that by having a nice mix of different types of players.

We can’t afford KDH and Winks, or Downes and Smallbone type players.  But we’ve shown that you can compete and beat both of those teams by not trying to control possession.

Only my view.

You may get your way and Williams may leave.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m glad you have faith that we can turn into that side!  I’ve seen little evidence (so far). In fact our share of possession has gone down (fractionally) under Manning.  Now of course you’ll argue it’s because we’ve got players like Williams in our side.  Until we have the best players in the league, I think it’s a bit of a fantasy that we can play the type of football you describe.

I’d rather we tried to play more like Coventry of 22/23 or Ipswich 23/24, I think that’s a far more achievable way of getting success…and you do that by having a nice mix of different types of players.

We can’t afford KDH and Winks, or Downes and Smallbone type players.  But we’ve shown that you can compete and beat both of those teams by not trying to control possession.

Only my view.

You may get your way and Williams may leave.  

It's an interesting one Dave. I agree with you on Williams and had rather we had kept James too fwiw, that is my starting point.

Two possible examples albeit heavily caveated as non Parachute Payments clubs were Brentford and Leeds..now for the caveats and where we differ as a club.

*Brentford- Had a well established system in place and indeed quite a few of them still with them in the PL. Plus Watkins, Benhamra and Maupay for their big money moves albeit the latter is back with them on loan. Strongly tapped the European market to good effect too- steadily increased their wage bill.

We possibly were moving towards a well established system until October.

*Leeds- Big income even then, big and increasing wage bill, expenditure and a world class coach...seemed to add to what they had and the likes of Bamford etc. However what a good side.

On paper those are two that went up without Parachute Payments...yet we are a long way from either of these in the late 2010s..good possession and promotion as a non Parachute Payments club isn't impossible but Brentford and Leeds 2019-20 and 2020-21 and 2018-19 to 2020-21 we really aren't.

Edited May 22 by Mr Popodopolous

[Jerseybean]

Lances Post view, https://www.lep.co.uk/sport/football/preston-north-end/bristol-city-transfer-news-rumours-joe-williams-preston-north-end-everton-bolton-wanderers-wigan-athletic-4638783

[Jeez]

Not personally that fussed if Williams goes, was often average or injured but had a decent end to his City career. Would prefer to see something new.

[westred1]

23 hours ago, chinapig said:

And through the club's official channels. Wtf is the Head of Comms doing to ensure professionalism?

We haven't got one at the moment!

[Major Isewater]

On 22/05/2024 at 09:16, Silvio Dante said:

Bang on.

I’ve said before, the adoration as a player is what blinds people here. If you put this in a real world scenario, if your company appointed a senior member of staff with no experience at the level he was being put into (and failure at a lower level job he was now overseeing), then in his first 7 months in the role he:

- Released confidential company information (undisclosed fees)

- Slated competitors publicly (“rubbing our hands”)

- Flounced off one of your main communication channels in a huff (See you in the prem)

- Actively blocked engagement with your most influential customers (exiled Robin blocked etc)

- Told proveable lies around employees in public (Mebude work permit)

- Frequently contradicted the chair of the board (documented a lot recently)

- And I’m not even going into how the spelling stuff looks to external parties

…then as an employee you’d have no confidence in the management. In a normal corporate environment (and this is important when we’re seeking investment partners as opposed to a takeover), then the shareholders would be looking at a motion of no confidence based on competency and value on “brand”. Particularly when there is currently no credit from other performance metrics (at best it’s static on footballing factors since Tinnions current role)

All people need to do before they decide whether his actions are defendable is call him Dave Robinson who has never kicked a ball. And when you apply that test, with those aspects above, how can you have confidence in or defend the bloke?

Dave Robinson out.

[mozo]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As you’ll know, I don’t see things as first choice / best eleven.  It’s a squad game in my opinion, and Williams will be permed with the others (Bird, Knight, TGH).  He gives us something the other three don’t give too…edge, aggression and often he’s the one to inject tempo.  I don't think you can have any certainty re first game in August as early as May!!!

That ship has sailed North imho.

Agree with you. Thinking back I think it was Nige that referenced that Williams gets particularly frustrated with being on the bench. Whether that comes into his thinking about the contract is anyone's guess though. I have no idea how much he enjoys being at City either.

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m glad you have faith that we can turn into that side!  I’ve seen little evidence (so far). In fact our share of possession has gone down (fractionally) under Manning.  Now of course you’ll argue it’s because we’ve got players like Williams in our side.  Until we have the best players in the league, I think it’s a bit of a fantasy that we can play the type of football you describe.

I’d rather we tried to play more like Coventry of 22/23 or Ipswich 23/24, I think that’s a far more achievable way of getting success…and you do that by having a nice mix of different types of players.

We can’t afford KDH and Winks, or Downes and Smallbone type players.  But we’ve shown that you can compete and beat both of those teams by not trying to control possession.

Only my view.

You may get your way and Williams may leave.  

My personal view is that controlling possession is secondary to controlling the game. Possession is naturally a big part of that, but so is defending, tempo, gamesmanship and fight. The longer you're in control with or without the ball, or contesting for the ball, the better chanve you have of winning (if that makes sense?!).

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

My personal view is that controlling possession is secondary to controlling the game. Possession is naturally a big part of that, but so is defending, tempo, gamesmanship and fight. The longer you're in control with or without the ball, or contesting for the ball, the better chanve you have of winning (if that makes sense?!).

It does make sense, and I think I some of that then comes down to “intent” (to cover a multitude of things) or “influence”.

If I use two examples in a generalised way:

Good - Leicester - intent to be brave, press higher, play a high line, disrupt them in possession, etc, meant we influenced a good chunk as to the way the game played out.

Bad - Swansea (60-65) - intent to be passive, sit in a block, not press, not even counterattack either, etc, meant we had little influence, you might argue Swansea didn’t either, but at least they were the ones with ball trying to find a way to break us down.

[Simon bristol]

4 hours ago, Jeez said:

Not personally that fussed if Williams goes, was often average or injured but had a decent end to his City career. Would prefer to see something new.

Same here, he doesnt do enough to warrant the 15/20 k a week figures being thrown around on here, up until 6 months ago i would imagine there was very little support for giving him a new deal to make him our highest paid player, and theres still no goal threat and hes not exactly known for iniesta like build up play, plus, any move he makes is likely to be a sideways move, clubs at the top of the championship dont seem to be looking at him as far as we know. that money would go a long way to financing the new number 10 which will go along way to helping our creativity issues. 

[mozo]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It does make sense, and I think I some of that then comes down to “intent” (to cover a multitude of things) or “influence”.

If I use two examples in a generalised way:

Good - Leicester - intent to be brave, press higher, play a high line, disrupt them in possession, etc, meant we influenced a good chunk as to the way the game played out.

Bad - Swansea (60-65) - intent to be passive, sit in a block, not press, not even counterattack either, etc, meant we had little influence, you might argue Swansea didn’t either, but at least they were the ones with ball trying to find a way to break us down.

Yeah Swansea would be a fairly bad example of a defensive 1-0 win because despite not conceding many clear cut chances, it didn't feel like we were in control. The tactics were wrong and the players appeared to lack the confidence to play through the lines. Fortunately, the result got both Manning and the players on the path to addressing those issues.

I don't think we need players capable of playing total football, but they need an intelligence, work rate and motivation to execute a controlled performance whereby we dictate the rhythm of the game, keep it tight and know how to do damage in the final third. That doesn't restrict us to endless passing, or to counter attacking. It's about playing each game on its merits. 

Oh and behaviours obviously

Edited May 23 by mozo

[Ian M]

On many (most?) midfielder metrics, Joe Williams is a top 20% Championship midfielder. It will cost a lot of money to improve upon him.

[RedEyez]

12 minutes ago, Ian M said:

On many (most?) midfielder metrics, Joe Williams is a top 20% Championship midfielder. It will cost a lot of money to improve upon him.

Agreed.

[Numero Uno]

On 22/05/2024 at 08:16, Silvio Dante said:

Bang on.

I’ve said before, the adoration as a player is what blinds people here. If you put this in a real world scenario, if your company appointed a senior member of staff with no experience at the level he was being put into (and failure at a lower level job he was now overseeing), then in his first 7 months in the role he:

- Released confidential company information (undisclosed fees)

- Slated competitors publicly (“rubbing our hands”)

- Flounced off one of your main communication channels in a huff (See you in the prem)

- Actively blocked engagement with your most influential customers (exiled Robin blocked etc)

- Told proveable lies around employees in public (Mebude work permit)

- Frequently contradicted the chair of the board (documented a lot recently)

- And I’m not even going into how the spelling stuff looks to external parties

…then as an employee you’d have no confidence in the management. In a normal corporate environment (and this is important when we’re seeking investment partners as opposed to a takeover), then the shareholders would be looking at a motion of no confidence based on competency and value on “brand”. Particularly when there is currently no credit from other performance metrics (at best it’s static on footballing factors since Tinnions current role)

All people need to do before they decide whether his actions are defendable is call him Dave Robinson who has never kicked a ball. And when you apply that test, with those aspects above, how can you have confidence in or defend the bloke?

This is the issue. When you take every single incident in isolation and deliberately ignore or forget everything that has happened before it it's very easy to think people are picking on the bloke. When you take the whole picture (you've missed a few by the way!!) and consider how it might look to people "considering" investing a few quid in BUT who have no emotional attachment to the club at the moment and will not allow one to grow unless it's the right thing for them to do then it's a lot easier to understand why so many have reservations, or in my case, believe the bloke is unsuitable for the role the club has given him pure and simple.

One of the biggest things you consider when deciding to invest in a company or institution after looking at the Balance Sheet and the potential for growth is "what are the experience and/or ability levels of the people running this operation?".............would Hargreaves Lansdown invest their customers money in a fund with nice potential but a shite fund manager? I'm not sure the two of them made themselves billionaires doing that.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

On 21/05/2024 at 14:45, Mr Popodopolous said:

James and Williams in the first instance.

The elder statesman with coaching potential of King.

Least concerning but an elder statesman all the same Weimann.

Doesn't feel a positive trajectory.

I think it's a case of why would you want to be the only older player. 

Wells, Naismith and Dickie are the next most experienced.  Odd to let them all go all at once.

Edited May 23 by Lorenzos Only Goal

[GrahamC]

21 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Yep agree with that @Davefevs.

He's our 4th CM In my opinion  and will certainly be behind Knight and Bird in our proposed starting line up on the 1st game if the season. I cam imagine our contract offer to him reflects that.

Ultimately it would come down to Williams. You're at your prime (27) signing potentially the most important contract of your career. Would you sign on for another 2/3 years at a club that you know won't view you as first choice and is offering a lower wage no doubt that what you are currently on.

As much as people say about us making this happen, it seems to me that Williams will be looking to be first choice and on a better wage that what we are currently offering (understandably).

"If or when" he goes, we'll need someone else in that position, but I'm sure there will be numerous OOCs that will fall into the wage structure that are setting.

I'm glad in a way that he was able to have a decent enough season with us in the end, after 2 years of injury hell. I'll certainly miss his lack of shooting ability and am still amazed that he is out top assister last season (with a measly 5).

Think it is hard to argue against the opinion that we have signed Bird to partner Knight, but struggling to see how you can see him as being behind TGH in the pecking order when he was consistently picked ahead of him all last season & the latter was largely a bench warmer in the second half of the season.

I’d have kept James in preference to him in truth but for reasons unknown that was clearly not a possibility.

I’m not hugely fussed if he stays or goes if I’m honest but would worry about our ability to find a replacement with what I expect is going to be a meagre budget once we bring in Twine.

 

[Natchfever]

On 22/05/2024 at 12:28, Davefevs said:

I went more for the Larry Blackmon / Cameo look!  

Codpiece Fevs

[gibbo7]

I’m not saying anyone is more or less negative than positive.

what I am however saying is this is the close season now.  We are in a month where very little happens in the public eye and everything occurs behind the scenes.

yet still on here it’s full of negativity over a tweet which was I’m sure made out of humour.

the close season is a time to forget what’s happened last season.  Hit the reset button and get behind the club, the new signings, the manager and the squad in general.

In your point of Steve Lansdown being happy with his return for the millions he has put in I’m sure the answer would be no.  However it’s not your money so let’s not get too down and be grateful that the man is still willing to dip his hand in his pocket where required and give us all something to do on a Saturday.

I will be judging the ability of Brian Tinnion, Jon Lansdown, Liam Manning on there performances in their positions starting from June 14th when the transfer window opens.  Not basing it off a tweet on social media.

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

10 hours ago, gibbo7 said:

the close season is a time to forget what’s happened last season.

Why? 

[Silvio Dante]

11 hours ago, gibbo7 said:

I’m not saying anyone is more or less negative than positive.

what I am however saying is this is the close season now.  We are in a month where very little happens in the public eye and everything occurs behind the scenes.

yet still on here it’s full of negativity over a tweet which was I’m sure made out of humour.

the close season is a time to forget what’s happened last season.  Hit the reset button and get behind the club, the new signings, the manager and the squad in general.

In your point of Steve Lansdown being happy with his return for the millions he has put in I’m sure the answer would be no.  However it’s not your money so let’s not get too down and be grateful that the man is still willing to dip his hand in his pocket where required and give us all something to do on a Saturday.

I will be judging the ability of Brian Tinnion, Jon Lansdown, Liam Manning on there performances in their positions starting from June 14th when the transfer window opens.  Not basing it off a tweet on social media.

 

 

I’m sorry mate, that’s just nonsense.

In your example above, now we’re in the close season we need to forget what happened in the prior year and judge parties from June 14th.

Flip that.

If Rob Dickie has a poor first month of the season, are you going to call him a shit footballer? No, because he has a track record and you’ve seen what he can do. If Pep loses 2-3 games at Man City should he be sacked? No, because he’s got insane credit in the bank.

Your logic is “ah well last seasons gone so reset any judgement”. It’s like what the Tories are saying now “We know the last 14 years were crap, but parliaments finished now, so give us another go as if we’re new”

Its an utterly nonsense argument.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why? 

The close season is always the ‘silly season’ - at least to me it is. Lots of pointless posts including what happened last season.

As fans we can’t change the past but that’s not say that the likes of Manning et el won’t have reflected and learnt from last season and make any necessary adjustments in preparation for preseason.

[W-S-M Seagull]

26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The close season is always the ‘silly season’ - at least to me it is. Lots of pointless posts including what happened last season.

As fans we can’t change the past but that’s not say that the likes of Manning et el won’t have reflected and learnt from last season and make any necessary adjustments in preparation for preseason.

This gibbo person always posts extremely positive stuff about our ownership. 

We would all like to move on from last season. But ultimately when the new season starts were still going to be owned by the same people and still have the likes of Jon and Tinnion effectively running the footballing operations. 

Those people caused a lot of damage in the fanbase last season, so it's not as easy as saying "new season, fresh start"

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why? 

Because people need to move on, I learnt that when Jordan left in ‘91 !!! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

Because people need to move on, I learnt that when Jordan left in ‘91 !!! 

How do you move on when the likes of Jon and Tinnion are still running the club badly? 

[Southport Red]

On 21/05/2024 at 22:36, Fordy62 said:

Why do we keep putting these unqualified people in positions of power? Can I have a turn next?*

*Bizarrely I find myself saying this tongue in cheek, yet actually I know I’d be a billion times more professional!

Fordy IN!!!!!

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, gibbo7 said:

will be judging the ability of Brian Tinnion, Jon Lansdown, Liam Manning on there performances in their positions starting from June 14th when the transfer window opens.  Not basing it off a tweet on social media.

So on June 13th a liberal spraying of pixie dust will make everything right ? 
No one , not even the club or Manning, are going to forget last season ni for the good nor for the bad , so good luck with that. 
However, a shiny new season will debut with every club on zero points and the prize of promotion being dreamed of. Hope springs eternal. 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

The close season is always the ‘silly season’ - at least to me it is. Lots of pointless posts including what happened last season.

As fans we can’t change the past but that’s not say that the likes of Manning et el won’t have reflected and learnt from last season and make any necessary adjustments in preparation for preseason.

Liam and Chris (sounds like a dodgy 80’s footballing pop duo) might well reflect, learn and improve as they have careers to forge. Those above them? You give them more credit than I do!!

Edited May 24 by Numero Uno

[gibbo7]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why? 

Because you can’t change it

[supercidered]

9 minutes ago, gibbo7 said:

Because you can’t change it

 

[Silvio Dante]

48 minutes ago, gibbo7 said:

Because you can’t change it

Alternately, and more sensibly: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” - George Santayana.

 

40 minutes ago, supercidered said:

 

Or that, equally correct. 

Edited May 24 by Silvio Dante

[CliftonCliff]

26 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Alternately, and more sensibly: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” - George Santayana.

One of the great quotes, that. Profoundly true. He could be a City supporter.