RedUn Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 I remember soon after he was handed the reins BT saying he would know when to stop playing when the people he respected told him so ... but how will they know?, who's opinon do they respect?, and would they have the guts to tell him? What about the players? Last week's much-publicised one-to-ones may have smacked a tadge of washing dirty linen in public but at least brought home a lot of long-overdue truths. But I wonder if any of the players felt able to say they thought he should hang up the boots and do the one job full-time? Or is that why Luke Wilkshire has been ditched? Is there a climate of fear around AG? (as evident in last night's dismal performance). Ah yes, last night, at least it wasn't on TV this time so I didn't have to run the gauntlet of ridicule I copped for two weeks ago when I got back to the local. It comes to something when the highlights of your Friday night are: 1) Seeing a bloke sliding down a rope off the top of the Williams stand to deliver the match ball, 2) Seeing another bloke and two lasses walk round the centre circle in the half-time pouring rain while the PA spluttered out every other bar of their Neil Diamond impersonation (... a metaphor for this season?), 3) Saving 'Lady', a little whippet bitch, from being run down on the Marlborough to Swindon road on the way to the M4 traffic jams. One thing Tinman could do if he wasn't 'out there' getting himself booked is sit in the blimmin' stands and see the bigger picture! It was immediately apparent from my perch that Walsall's 4-1-4-1 line-up was causing City huge problems most notably in central midfield where Bradders and the manager himself were consistently outnumbered. So why it took 30 minutes to redeploy Scott Brown into 'the hole' gawd only knows - the 30 mins or so he occupied that area coincided with our few bright moments on the night because it meant we finally managed to get on the ball. Finally, to reiterate, I'm afraid nothing that has happened this season has cured my aversion to player-managers - by definition, it means you have one man doing two part-time jobs. Better players than Tinman have been made to look foolish in the role(s) - McMahon, Holloway, Pearce spring to mind - the longer they carry on clinging to the comfort blanket of kicking the ball around (and picking their aging mates on the basis of some long-forgotten glory years) the worse it gets for all concerned. For me the planning and preparation for 2005/06 has to begin today with the announcement that EITHER the manager has hung up his boots OR the player has handed back the swivel-chair ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham b Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Both excellent posts that I am in total agrrement with. We need to ditch the cosy club, the internal appointments and restore off field discipline. Oh for another Joe Jordan out there, who could show the dressing room his medals, earn respect and provide proper leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenun Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Oh for another Joe Jordan out there, who could show the dressing room his medals, earn respect and provide proper leadership. ← His name is Gordon Strachan and he's available alright, BUT: 1. We would need to find a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow to pay his salary, and........ 2. He would need a frontal lobotomy to be persuaded to come, before he turns us down over the lack of 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Rather than the either /or at the end of your message Red Un I would go for a both/and. And I fully understand that school of thought. I guess I was trying to look at the problem from Tinman's point of view, i.e. unless he stops playing and soon, how will he ever be able to judge his performance as a manager? For his/mentor's benefit I say again player/manager is not the same as manager His insistence of leading from the front reminds me more of a historical general rather than football manager. His resort of picking of himself and ten others is managerial foolishness of the highest order. Yes ... I'm afraid it reminds me all too much of the Gas incarnation of Hollowhead the Manager - remember how we extracted the urine about his "boys needing to become men" and "I'm Gas me" rants? The problem - again from Tin's point of view - is that there is no QPR on is post-Brizz horizon - he has got to make it here or else. ... As to whom his mentors could be is rather perplexing ... ← Typically, a mentor would be someone who has previously achieved something like what one is aiming to achieve oneself ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Both excellent posts that I am in total agrrement with. We need to ditch the cosy club, the internal appointments and restore off field discipline. Oh for another Joe Jordan out there, who could show the dressing room his medals, earn respect and provide proper leadership. ← Spot on Sipowicz, spot on.........shame he cant come back here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin CITY Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 He still lives in Abbots Leigh !! Pop into the George and ask him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham b Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Typically, a mentor would be someone who has previously achieved something like what one is aiming to achieve oneself ... ← Promotion from the third level of football. So we have Millen, Taylor, Bell, Murray and the just returned Carey on the playing side. Perhaps they could advise on the hanging up the boots issue. On the managerial issue the first four are over involved either managerially or personally and are likely sufferers in any consequential change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Walsall player manager MERSON said it all. He is 36 and did not play.....WHY ? Because his plan revolved around "YOUNGER LEGS". Leading up to the match our hype was how to combat Merson the player. His answer was a PLAN, and that plan included Merson being dropped from the team. TINS PLEASE NOTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Agree pretty much with all of that. When Jordan took over here he had played at the top level his whole career. Won the title with Leeds - played in World Cups with Scotland - played in Italy with Milan. He was a name and a legend in the game - he instantly commanded repsect from every player at the club and look what he achieved. He got us within the width of a post of a Wembley final (and a major one not the mickey mouse one) and then promoted with what seemed like consummate ease. Tinnion hasnt had that playing career and so doesnt command that respect. The other crucial difference is that Jordan hadn't been here long when he took charge. Tinnion has been here 12 years and comes with a lot of club baggage. Yes strachan is out there but my god there is no way we could afford him and even if we could i have no idea how we would even begin to convince him it was the right job for him. Rosenior, Johnson or Jones seem the most likely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 There's only one fatal flaw with the "been there done that" ex star turning Bristol City into a major force, look at Tony Adams at Wycombe. A monster of a man, won everything as a player, wore his heart on his sleeve for club and country, but bag of poo manager. Peter Shilton = bag of poo. Alvin Martin = now a radio personality, awful manager. Another example, David Moyes, not the best player in the world but a very highly rated manager, our old boy Steve Mclaren, superb man manager for boro and England. Good coaches or managers are not neccesarily the best of players and don't necessarily have to have played at the top level, it all comes down to how they conduct themselves around the players, and dealing with the akward situations fairly and earning the players respect. Tins has possibly done irrepairable damage by publicly criticising those that don't want him to succeed from the changing rooms, those players themselves are a disgrace and should do it for themselves and the people who pay their wages, Tins may yet get it right, but it won't be this season regardless of what the BCFC spin machine says, this season is over and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 You're not wrong Screech, but in both of Jordan's spells here there was discipline,a pattern of play and a sense that he was moving us in the right direction. See any of those at the moment? The choice of manager should be someone with either a track record or who as another poster has said to paraphrase, can show them the medals. Final point, two 36 year old Geordies looking for thier first managerial positions after good careers in the second and third tiers of English football this summer, one (Gary Owers) gets Bath City, two levels below the Conference, the other gets Bristol City, make any sense to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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