"commanding" Centre-back

[BCFC_Dan]

It seems that pretty much everyone is agreed that we need a "commanding" centre-back for Carey/Coles/Fortune to play alongside, because none of them are capable of doing the job themselves. My question is why aren't they?

Our youth system/academy has produced a number of very good central defenders (Carey, Coles, Hill) plus some promising if unproven ones (Fortune, Amankwaah), but why can none of them play this "commanding" role we need? Is it that our youth system has a policy of only recruiting softies who are afraid to go in where it hurts and win the ball? Or is it that they aren't trained to do the job?

Is it that "commanding" centre-backs tend to lack skill on the ball and so aren't noticed by the academy scouts, or are released before completing their training?

Or can a decent defender become a "commanding" player? And if that is the case, why have none of ours done it?

Considering the coaching staff we have, it'd be understandable if the academy were struggling to produce strikers, as the closest we have to one on the coaching staff is Alan Walsh....but it's struggling to produce these "commanding" centre-backs, and yet the coaching set-up posesses both Shaun Taylor and Keith Millen.

Carey played alongside Taylor, has been coached by him and Millen for most of the past few years and has nigh on 10 years first team experience under his belt now (I admit that a lot of it has been at right-back)...has he learnt nothing in that time?

Likewise, Coles, who seems to possess the strength and the bravery to play the role seems incapable of doing so when asked. Has he been training solely to play alongside Butler and never once tried to learn the role for himself? Is it a case of can't play the role or won't play the role?

Matt Hill came close to being able to do the job, but at 5'8" is always going to struggle in that position. It says a lot about his attitude that he played it as well as he did.

Finally, there's Fortune. A 6'4" man-mountain. Physcially speaking, the most likely candidate of the lot. Yet when he plays he just looks soft. He seems to have no inclination to use his strength, nor any idea how.

Are Taylor and Millen teaching these lads anything? And if they are, are the players listening?

Michael Nelson is 5 months younger than Danny Coles and only 1 inch taller and 4kg heavier. He singed for Hartlepool in the summer of 2003 for £70k - roughly the same time as Cardiff were offering £500k for Coles. So why is he now the "commanding" centre-back we so desperately need, and Coles isn't?

[bransonmo]

It seems that pretty much everyone is agreed that we need a "commanding" centre-back for Carey/Coles/Fortune to play alongside, because none of them are capable of doing the job themselves. My question is why aren't they?

Our youth system/academy has produced a number of very good central defenders (Carey, Coles, Hill) plus some promising if unproven ones (Fortune, Amankwaah), but why can none of them play this "commanding" role we need? Is it that our youth system has a policy of only recruiting softies who are afraid to go in where it hurts and win the ball? Or is it that they aren't trained to do the job?

Is it that "commanding" centre-backs tend to lack skill on the ball and so aren't noticed by the academy scouts, or are released before completing their training?

Or can a decent defender become a "commanding" player? And if that is the case, why have none of ours done it?

Considering the coaching staff we have, it'd be understandable if the academy were struggling to produce strikers, as the closest we have to one on the coaching staff is Alan Walsh....but it's struggling to produce these "commanding" centre-backs, and yet the coaching set-up posesses both Shaun Taylor and Keith Millen.

Carey played alongside Taylor, has been coached by him and Millen for most of the past few years and has nigh on 10 years first team experience under his belt now (I admit that a lot of it has been at right-back)...has he learnt nothing in that time?

Likewise, Coles, who seems to possess the strength and the bravery to play the role seems incapable of doing so when asked. Has he been training solely to play alongside Butler and never once tried to learn the role for himself? Is it a case of can't play the role or won't play the role?

Matt Hill came close to being able to do the job, but at 5'8" is always going to struggle in that position. It says a lot about his attitude that he played it as well as he did.

Finally, there's Fortune. A 6'4" man-mountain. Physcially speaking, the most likely candidate of the lot. Yet when he plays he just looks soft. He seems to have no inclination to use his strength, nor any idea how.

Are Taylor and Millen teaching these lads anything? And if they are, are the players listening?

Michael Nelson is 5 months younger than Danny Coles and only 1 inch taller and 4kg heavier. He singed for Hartlepool in the summer of 2003 for £70k - roughly the same time as Cardiff were offering £500k for Coles. So why is he now the "commanding" centre-back we so desperately need, and Coles isn't?

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Nelson v Coles/Fortune, or Brooker v Miller. So its night time in a dark alley,some nasties approach. Who do you want alongside, Nelson and Brooker, both hard lads. No disrespect to the other 3, its just a different breed of man.

[EmersonsKev]

You talk about Millen and Taylor teaching kids stuff, i think the commanding leader is something that is natural something unteachable. I maybe wrong but its the character of the person.

Sadly i think Clayton is very uneasy and unsure of his own ability and seems a very timid player. The annoying thing with him is that 1 week he is solid and looks like he could hold down his place for a while then next week its back to his sunday league best.

The nearest thing we have produced to a leader i believe was Andy Jordan, due to either his own or his fathers greed he has never made it.

[bcfc seattle]

Then again fortune has never been given the job, just throw him in there and keep making him watch videos of nice physical Center backs.

I'm really surprised Taylor and Millen have not been able to help develope CF into a first rate center back. Doesn't reflect well upon them.

But I'd like CF to be thrust in there for the rest of the season and see what happens, he is the future and if we don't play this sort of player now we'll always have to rely on players coming in.

Our Academy is useless if we don't actually use the product that comes from them.

[Tunley Legend]

I agree with the last two points. It is character that makes a player commanding. You cannot "teach" people to stick their head in amongst flying boots, come out with a six inch gash on their forehead, and then get straight back out on the pitch with just a smear of Vaseline for company.

You've either got that type of "bottle" or you haven't I'm afraid.

[zookeeper]

To be a commanding player it is as much about attitude as it is physical build and ability. As you say Matt Hill had the mentality but lacked other areas.

A lot of the players you mention lack the mentality to attack that ball. I would question if this is something that can be taught or is it part of a players nature?

But it is definately a question that we as a club should be asking.

[EmersonsKev]

Then again fortune has never been given the job, just throw him in there and keep making him watch videos of nice physical Center backs.

I'm really surprised Taylor and Millen have not been able to help develope CF into a first rate center back.  Doesn't reflect well upon them.

But I'd like CF to be thrust in there for the rest of the season and see what happens, he is the future and if we don't play this sort of player now we'll always have to rely on players coming in. 

Our Academy is useless if we don't actually use the product that comes from them.

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Bit harsh saying we don't use the acadamy, take a look at Colchester away last week, best performance in a while. The team was littered with talent from the acadamy!

Man of the match last week at home to Oldham, Acadamy grown lad Dave Cotterill. England U21 goal scorer and goal machine Leroy Lita spent 2 years in our acadamy. The list goes on. To say the product isnt used is wrong.

[bcfc seattle]

Bit harsh saying we don't use the acadamy, take a look at Colchester away last week, best performance in a while.  The team was littered with talent from the acadamy!

Man of the match last week at home to Oldham, Acadamy grown lad Dave Cotterill.  England U21 goal scorer and goal machine Leroy Lita spent 2 years in our acadamy.  The list goes on.  To say the product isnt used is wrong.

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I think you are making my point for me. This was the first game where we relied heavily upon the academy. Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the Academy, it just seems (certainly in the DW years, and earlier this season) that we don't use the players nor get them the needed first team games. We are not some gigiantic team that can afford to go out and buy players all the time, we've got to take a better approach (ex. charlton). where we bring up our own players and actually play them.

Are there going to be rough spots playing many youngsters? yes but we'll be better set for the future if we do.

We've had way to many talented players leave here possibly with their careers in tatters as they were never developed here by actually giving them first team chances. (see Clist, Hawkins, M. Brown, Hulbert, etc. etc.)

We MUST play the young players.

[Port Said Red]

I have seen signs that Clayton is getting more agressive. But there isa part for the fans to play. I have heard many fans around me criticise him for being a "big lummox" etc, to me it seems the guy can't win. If he throws his weight around he will be called clumsy if he times his challenges and picks his tackles he's called soft.

It's all in perception and easy targets to my mind.