Rg Really Makes My Blood Boil

[Keepers Ball]

Whilst there has been a largely negative reaction on this Forum, it does not reflect the views taken elsewhere.  Unfortunately we are at time and position in the season where everything we do is being criticised. 

We have trialled getting fans to vote for kits in the past, and no doubt we will do in the future - but it is not something that we can do as a matter of course because there are very many commercial arguments against doing it as a matter of course.  For example, the design process starts in Nov / Dec - imagine trying to get supporters to vote on next seasons kit when we are just about to enter our busiest sales period of the year (Xmas) - it would be commercial suicide.

I firmly believe that this years design is one of the best for many years, and there is cetainly a great deal more detail in the design and construction than we have had for some time.

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What utter crap !

Apparently our reasons for not liking the new shirt is down to our failure this year.So is he saying we are not capable of making judgements on what we like or don't like without other influences?

[bucksred]

Wonder if his @ss is in the firing line when sales drop...........hey its only a goddamn shirt We'll buy anything they bring up...sorry out, wont we boys and girls............

*all nod in unison, youre own choice here-yay or nay-free vote, c'mo we aint got all season no##

[Dorset_Cider]

What utter crap !

Apparently our reasons for not liking the new shirt is down to our failure this year.So is he saying we are not capable of making judgements on what we like or don't like without other influences?

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Is 'commercial suicide' a long lost (sold out) brother or sister of yours Sui?

[Frank Reynolds]

Cynic, whether you like it or not, that shirt is crap.

Richard Gould is a clown.

Steve Lansdown is an absolute hero for this club, but our commercial manager is surely a spawn of Ronald McDonald.

[Guest WWJD]

What utter crap !

Apparently our reasons for not liking the new shirt is down to our failure this year.So is he saying we are not capable of making judgements on what we like or don't like without other influences?

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I have ENORMOUS sympathy for the man. And it's many of the so-called fans that make my blood boil.

Does anyone think that the Board are sat there all day thinking "what can we do next to annoy the fans"?

They are doing their best for the club that they love.

Yes they may make mistakes. But, as with everything else in life, it's the complainers who make most noise. Given the current dire state of this forum, I think anyone who liked the shirt would be frightened to say so, for fear of the backlash.

Richard is absolutely correct when he says that "everything we do is being criticised".

Does that not make some of you stop and think?

Probably not ..... if so, then you don't deserve this Board.

If Steve were to pack it in, then I hope you would all be very happy as you cheer your beloved club towards the Conference.

[Keyred]

Richard is absolutely correct when he says that "everything we do is being criticised".

I doubt that resigning would be criticised

[Guest Neo]

I have ENORMOUS sympathy for the man.  And it's many of the so-called fans that make my blood boil.

Does anyone think that the Board are sat there all day thinking "what can we do next to annoy the fans"?

They are doing their best for the club that they love.

Yes they may make mistakes.  But, as with everything else in life, it's the complainers who make most noise.  Given the current dire state of this forum, I think anyone who liked the shirt would be frightened to say so, for fear of the backlash.

Richard is absolutely correct when he says that "everything we do is being criticised". 

Does that not make some of you stop and think?

Probably not .....  if so, then you don't deserve this Board.

If Steve were to pack it in, then I hope you would all be very happy as you cheer your beloved club towards the Conference.

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No it doesn't make me stop and think.

Why? Because i'm a 35 year old man who loves this club and no my own mind.

I think the lack of consultation on the new badge has been disgusting. I think the new badge is disgusting. And I think the new shirt will make us look like a laughing stock.

Nothing to do with being critical for the sake of it. It is a shocking design, plain and simple. Richard Gould, like the rest of the board, believe once again that they know best on issues which a large majority of fans care about.

This level of arrogance in the past has served them well with threats to abandon this and that never really materialising and sells increasing year on year.

However, this time, I truly believe, they are going to realise a huge mistake has been made.

Season ticket sells and merchandising will drop. The club will lose out by about £700 from just me for starters. I will deal with the guilt I will no doubt feel at some stage by knowing that sometimes you have to make a stand and show these people that they can not continue to ignore stakeholders opinions.

I will miss out on watching my team so much, the club misses out on much needed revenue. We all lose, however, the blame for this (I firmly believe) lies at the club's doorstep and not mine.

As for buying a shirt you will not even wear cynic; that makes sense on some level I can't comprehend. However, good luck with that!

[Ian M]

I doubt that resigning would be criticised 

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Sure it would, this forum would probably be filled with comments along the lines of "he hasn't even got the balls to see the job through. Gutless *****!"

You knows it!

[openEnd]

Sure it would, this forum would probably be filled with comments along the lines of "he hasn't even got the balls to see the job through. Gutless *****!"

You knows it! 

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I would like to test your theory

Up for it Dick Gould?

[zookeeper]

What utter crap !

Apparently our reasons for not liking the new shirt is down to our failure this year.So is he saying we are not capable of making judgements on what we like or don't like without other influences?

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A lot of that makes sense in my opinion. I wander what the response to the new kit would have been had it been released this week when there is an increase amount of excitement.

I think most people are influenced by mood when making judgements in every aspect of life.

[openEnd]

A lot of that makes sense in my opinion. I wander what the response to the new kit would have been had it been released this week when there is an increase amount of excitement.

I think most people are influenced by mood when making judgements in every aspect of life.

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Ok you go into a shop, to buy some jeans, having had a row with your missus

Your telling me you'd buy jeans that you 'normally' don't like?

Defies all logic.

[Ian M]

Ok you go into a shop, to buy some jeans, having had a row with your missus

Your telling me you'd buy jeans that you 'normally' don't like? 

Defies all logic.

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The shop in your analogy isn't what made you angry though.

For the analogy to work it'd have to be something like this:

You have a blazin row with your missus. She puts on a dress you normally are non-plussed about, now you hate the sight of it. Because you're angry with her.

[openEnd]

The shop in your analogy isn't what made you angry though.

For the analogy to work it'd have to be something like this:

You have a blazin row with your missus. She puts on a dress you normally are non-plussed about, now you hate the sight of it. Because you're angry with her.

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Ok I see your point, but heat of the moment disagreements pass by VERY quickly.

Lets see if opinion on the badge/shirt, shifts so dramatically.

I don't recall reading hundreds (on here) shifting opinion so radically, and we're now about 4 days down the line. I'm still bloody upset.

Any idea how many pre-orders have been made? that might be a good indicator.

[zookeeper]

The shop in your analogy isn't what made you angry though.

For the analogy to work it'd have to be something like this:

You have a blazin row with your missus. She puts on a dress you normally are non-plussed about, now you hate the sight of it. Because you're angry with her.

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A much better answer than my attempts. The answer to this question would probably be yes, the answer to openend's question would be that I wouldn't go shopping after an argument with the missus.

[Ian M]

Ok I see your point, but heat of the moment disagreements pass by VERY quickly.

Lets see if opinion on the badge/shirt, shifts so dramatically.

I don't recall reading hundreds (on here) shifting opinion so radically, and we're now about 4 days down the line. I'm still bloody upset. 

Any idea how many pre-orders have been made? that might be a good indicator.

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I suspect that:

-should we miss the play-offs, shirt sales will go down massively because of the design

-should we lose in the play-offs, shirt sales will drop slightly because of the design

-should we somehow win the play-offs, shirt sales will rise slightly despite the design

This is inline with zookeeper's psychological theory.

[zookeeper]

Ok I see your point, but heat of the moment disagreements pass by VERY quickly.

Lets see if opinion on the badge/shirt, shifts so dramatically.

I don't recall reading hundreds (on here) shifting opinion so radically, and we're now about 4 days down the line. I'm still bloody upset. 

Any idea how many pre-orders have been made? that might be a good indicator.

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I also feel that the club have missed a trick here and I think they have not used the fans or the FCC well enough. I think there will be anger regarding this decision and it will last but I also think that if the club was running high the issues surrounding the Badge and new shirt would not have been as passionately felt.

[openEnd]

I suspect that:

-should we miss the play-offs, shirt sales will go down massively because of the design

-should we lose in the play-offs, shirt sales will drop slightly because of the design

-should we somehow win the play-offs, shirt sales will rise slightly despite the design

This is inline with zookeeper's psychological theory.

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Rise?

Do you mean in relation to 2004/05 season sales? or current opinion (numbers wise)?

[Ian M]

Rise?

Do you mean in relation to 2004/05 season sales? or current opinion (numbers wise)?

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I think we sold 11,500 shirts this season.

IF we make it to the Championship I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight rise in total sold DESPITE the feelings regarding the design at present.

Not because the shirt is an improvement on what we have now but because the feelings of euphoria would counteract the negative aspects of the design.

[BCAGFC]

Firstly, I'd like to say I am undecided about the new kit but in business if you don't listen and ACT on your customers suggestions/advice then eventually there is only 1 loser...THE BUSINESS.

As the saying goes 'In BUSINESS the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT'.

BCAGFC

[openEnd]

I think we sold 11,500 shirts this season.

IF we make it to the Championship I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight rise in total sold DESPITE the feelings regarding the design at present.

Not because the shirt is an improvement on what we have now but because the feelings of euphoria would counteract the negative aspects of the design.

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I agree with much of what you say Madger. But on this I think you are kidding yourself. Big Time.

I have also noticed a considerable mellowing in the 'I Hate Liars' Madger when the badge was spotted (by you) in the debenture brochure. Care to explain why that would be?

[zookeeper]

As the saying goes 'In BUSINESS the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT'.

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I always thought that it was "Always make the customer THINK he is right"

Different Business studies school I guess.

[openEnd]

I agree with much of what you say Madger. But on this I think you are kidding yourself. Big Time.

I have also noticed a considerable mellowing in the 'I Hate Liars' Madger when the badge was spotted (by you) in the debenture brochure. Care to explain why that would be? 

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Actually your 'I Hate Liars' avatar came shortly after I reported new mugs, sporting the crap badge in the shop.

Apologies, I like to report the true facts, not mis represent the order of events.

[Ian M]

I agree with much of what you say Madger. But on this I think you are kidding yourself. Big Time.

I have also noticed a considerable mellowing in the 'I Hate Liars' Madger when the badge was spotted (by you) in the debenture brochure. Care to explain why that would be? 

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Because generally everything about this club is hostile at the moment and I don't think it helps much.

[openEnd]

Because generally everything about this club is hostile at the moment and I don't think it helps much.

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Sitting back does, right?

[Ian M]

Sitting back does, right? 

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No but constant snipes aren't the way to go either. As has been mentioned on another thread, why don't you request a meeting with Richard Gould to put your feelings across as it is clearly something you feel strongly about.

No FINAL decision has been made whether this is to be the badge to take us forward 10 years or so for example. Putting forward your case will at least enable the club to move on knowing better the feelings the fans are likely to take.

I still doubt that ANY senior member of staff at the club sits down and thinks "what can I do next to pee off the fans?"

It's all about choosing the best course of action to get the result you desire, I believe a arranging a meeting would stand a greater chance of success than any other form of action.

[RedM]

I thought in business it was 'know your customers' and 'know your product'.

If you can't get the first group to buy the latter then you arrive at rule number 3, 'know your limitations.'

There seems to be very little consultation with the clubs customers. From what I gather the first time the shirt was seen with sponsors, collar etc all together was when it arrived for Cotterill to model? Not excatly knowing the product is it?

I'd like to see the designs that were rejected and hear what the reasoning was.

Know your limitations. Was it all doen to one man RG to give the nod? Surely for something as important, financially and for brand awareness and even for good old pride, then there should have been quite a lot of discussion at board level? i can't believe they all would have got it so wrong???

Now for the positives, bear with me... This year it seems it is too late to do anything. The shirts will go on sale and stay hung on the rails in the shop. There will be a 'Desperation Sale' and if they are drastically reduced and the team is flying high they might shift a few!

It seems the decision about the shirts designs for the following season are made October/November time? If we can't actually design what we want could a choice of designs be sent to the club then. I'd be prepared to stand outside the ground with a clipboard and a pencil guaging opinion of other fans. No cost involved there, the club might go for it. We could have a poll on here too?

Good idea, or would we be wasting our time? Would the club want this or do they like to decide these things for us? Maybe the financial implications of next seasons shirt will be the decider?

[cider head]

What utter crap !

Apparently our reasons for not liking the new shirt is down to our failure this year.So is he saying we are not capable of making judgements on what we like or don't like without other influences?

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he just wants is own way as it is his design.

fair enough but he should also wake up to the fact that peole hate

the badge and kit and it is not just internet users at that.

some will buy it as they think it helps finance

the club to help bring in players etc fair enough but it is a

big mistake not listening to your customers ie: the fans.

[Guest hairyshamrock]

No but constant snipes aren't the way to go either. As has been mentioned on another thread, (1) why don't you request a meeting with Richard Gould to put your feelings across as it is clearly something you feel strongly about.

No FINAL decision has been made whether this is to be the badge to take us forward 10 years or so for example. (2) Putting forward your case will at least enable the club to move on knowing better the feelings the fans are likely to take.

(3) I still doubt that ANY senior member of staff at the club sits down and thinks "what can I do next to pee off the fans?"

It's all about choosing the best course of action to get the result you desire, I believe a arranging a meeting would stand a greater chance of success than any other form of action.

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Madger, my old friend.... i've labelled your points by number as i wish to take issue with them... As there are so many and all (you missing the point once again like a Monk misses a few beers on a saturday night and go on the pull...)!

(1)I thought that the idea of such things as having an on line forum and an FCC was to get constant contact between the board (those in power) and the fans (whom those in power want to spend their hard earned money on the club they love). So why should we go out of our lives to arrange a meeting in Dick's working day (9-5 most probably, with ample coffee breaks and time for cleaning his knife he has stabbed the fans in the back with). I know you will say that i am just whinging for the sake of it (hey, you're more predicable than the setting of the sun) but i don't believe these men would react to us walking in to their offices and telling them how we feel. They are business men and should therefore be treated with the same distaste that they treat us. Its the only thing they understand.

(2)I should hope by now that they have a pretty good idea that we don't like their taste in fashion or badge design... I don't think only a handful of posts have been replied to this week, but i'm willing to bet that they have all read a few of them...!

(3) I very much doubt they think this too, but they don't exactly walk in every day and say to themselves "we have a VERY limited fan base, yet it is good and strong if we treat it right. It will fight on our side from Hull to Torquay if we put them first, they are the lifeblood of this club."

When Our beloved ex-soldier of Red and White Mr Moyes took over at Everton, he went in there with a board who were not popular, yet he turned it around in a season they finished 17th and sold their best player by making it "the peoples club". this may seem gimmickey to you but it worked. Now they have the board being as popular as ever and with the support of the clubs fans they are looking to do what no one thought possible.

I know you are just going to berate everything i've said but hey, i'll try and talk slower next time so that you can understand better.

I'll also put in diagrams if you like

[Ian M]

Madger, my old friend.... i've labelled your points by number as i wish to take issue with them...  As there are so many and all (you missing the point once again like a Monk misses a few beers on a saturday night and go on the pull...)!

(1)I thought that the idea of such things as having an on line forum and an FCC was to get constant contact between the board (those in power) and the fans (whom those in power want to spend their hard earned money on the club they love). So why should we go out of our lives to arrange a meeting in Dick's working day (9-5 most probably, with ample coffee breaks and time for cleaning his knife he has stabbed the fans in the back with).  I know you will say that i am just whinging for the sake of it (hey, you're more predicable than the setting of the sun) but i don't believe these men would react to us walking in to their offices and telling them how we feel.  They are business men and should therefore be treated with the same distaste that they treat us.  Its the only thing they understand.

(2)I should hope by now that they have a pretty good idea that we don't like their taste in fashion or badge design...  I don't think only a handful of posts have been replied to this week, but i'm willing to bet that they have all read a few of them...!

(3) I very much doubt they think this too, but they don't exactly walk in every day and say to themselves "we have a VERY limited fan base, yet it is good and strong if we treat it right.  It will fight on our side from Hull to Torquay if we put them first, they are the lifeblood of this club."

When Our beloved ex-soldier of Red and White Mr Moyes took over at Everton, he went in there with a board who were not popular, yet he turned it around in a season they finished 17th and sold their best player by making it "the peoples club".  this may seem gimmickey to you but it worked.  Now they have the board being as popular as ever and with the support of the clubs fans they are looking to do what no one thought possible. 

I know you are just going to berate everything i've said but hey, i'll try and talk slower next time so that you can understand better.

I'll also put in diagrams if you like 

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Points One & Two:

I agree with you wholeheartedly that a meeting between you and any of the senior staff at Ashton Gate would be futile, not because of the issues you wish to discuss but from the way you suggest approaching them.

If you were to approach any meeting with such official in a business-like manner (that cursed other thing that they understand) then I suspect your views are more likely to be taken on board. This appears to be the case with the club investigating the pro's and con's of going with a "named" brand when deciding on who will manufacture our kit in future after meetings with one such concerned fan, this forum's very own richieb - a vociferous critic of the board in the past.

The FAQ thread on the Ask SLetc forum states the following:

2) This forum is not to be used for long rants, raves and personal abuse. If you would like to discuss issues, at length, then the club are always open to phone calls/personal meetings.

Now I know from someone in the past that Sextone has arranged an evening meeting with a concerned fan to fit in with his work schedule. You may not feel it is important enough for you to go out of your way for, and to an extent I would agree with you, but if you feel strongly enough about the issue I think you'd begrudgingly decide to go ahead anyway.

They may well be aware of our feelings on the matters due to the vast number of rants on here about them. But a person-to-person meeting is always going to yield better results than writing stuff on here, mainly because you can respond more ably to their responses and read body language etc etc. If the points are put across calmly and assuredly then I don't see why progress cannot be made towards reaching a conclusion that everyone is happy with (on the badge issue, the club getting a distinct more visible badge, the fans getting to ditch the current monstrosity and replace it with something we feel more able to relate to).

Point Three:

I agree with your point here completely. But who gets the ball rolling? The club has created the FCC/FCF/whatever they're calling it these days, but it is clear that the club gets everything from this relationship and the fans get nothing. Nice idea, but doesn't seem to be working.

I'm sure you will agree that the club will achieve more by working WITH the fans than by working AGAINST them. But who wants this club to be successful more? The employees who are paid regardless (which is what Richard Gould is) or the fans who have an irreplaceable place for the club in their heart?

Maybe then that it might have to be the fans that offer the olive branch? For short term humility, the long term gains could be great and if we end up with a more successful, better run club then making that gesture will feel even better for those who did.

I don't think I've berated EVERYTHING you have written (in fact I may have agreed with much of it ) but hope I have done so enough not to leave you disappointed

At the end of the day I think we both want to see this club successful in the higher echelons of the Football Leagues.

[BCAGFC]

Slightly going off track but quite topical.

Quite a few years ago myself and a few others had a meeting with the board of BCFC regarding what used to be the Kickers Club at AG and the problems they were having in there. We were given our chance to say what we thought they should do but at the end of the day the board did what they wanted to do not taking into account any of our views/suggestions. I personally felt very intimidated while in the meeting as it was the sort of atmosphere of us against them rather than both sides trying to sort the problems out.

I hope that isn't the situation with the FCC meetings.

BCAGFC